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Timberline's Future
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Updated 17 days ago
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10 months ago

Hello,

I’m in the process of looking at homes for sale in Old Timberline. I’ve been skiing there for years, and have an affinity for it’s rustic charm that reminds me of the older ski resorts in upstate NY. However with a number of friends that live out that way telling me that it sounds like bankruptcy proceedings may already be in process I’m very hesitant to purchase. Does anyone have information, views, or opinions? I’m all ears as I don’t want to buy a place that has the lifts shut down. 

Thanks,

Joe

10 months ago

I am a current Timberline homeowner.  I have no real “inside information” but people I know who are in a position to know, do not say that bankruptcy is imminent.  Forecasting the financial demise of Timberline has been a favorite sport around here for many years, and yet the current owners remain in business.  

But here’s a thought from a different angle:  In the past 4 years, both Wisp and Wintergreen have either gone through bankruptcy (Wisp) or narrowly avoided it (Wintergreen) according to published news stories.  Those are both bigger resorts that from the outside appear more stable than Timberline.  Running a ski area south of the Mason-Dixon line is just an inherently unstable business.  But even when resorts do go through bankruptcy, sometimes (if they find a buyer with new capital to invest) they emerge stronger after bankruptcy than before. 

10 months ago

Joe - you asked for opinions so here ya go.

There appears to be a history of early closings, late openings and mechanical issues.  Why would YOU want to bear that risk with YOUR hard earned money?

I was told a few years ago that seasonal rentals are very affordable.  Why not go that route until things stabilize there?  If things got bad there then you are only on the hook for that seasons rent.  You could always buy in at a later date.  Stability may come at a little premium in price but sleeping well at night has value.

As a Snowshoe homeowner, R/E prices are hardly increasing since the real estate crash and things are fairly stable in our neck of the woods.  

Don’t let that affinity for its rustic charm fool you.  Writing checks to own and maintain property that can’t be used (skiing) is real and it sucks.  Nov and Dec 2015 were eye openers for many people —- and put me at the top of that list.

10 months ago

Don’t buy a house in the Canaan Valley area based on a ski resort. Buy a house in the Canaan Valley area because you love the Canaan Valley area all the months you can’t ski.

 

ChmxJoe74 wrote:

Hello,

I’m in the process of looking at homes for sale in Old Timberline. I’ve been skiing there for years, and have an affinity for it’s rustic charm that reminds me of the older ski resorts in upstate NY. However with a number of friends that live out that way telling me that it sounds like bankruptcy proceedings may already be in process I’m very hesitant to purchase. Does anyone have information, views, or opinions? I’m all ears as I don’t want to buy a place that has the lifts shut down. 

Thanks,

Joe

 

10 months ago

T-line suffered a pretty catestrophic lift failure with only a month or so remaining in the season.  Rather than give up and spend the summer patching things up they ponied up and surprised everyone by throwing the kitchen sink at the lift upgrading the supports on all of the lift towers while fixing the fallen one. 

That convinced me they are serious about staying in the ski resort business.  However, there may be legal action pending from people that were injured when the tower top fell.  No clue if there are still costs to settle up there but again, they could have easily shut it all down when that lift came crashing down rather than getting after it and cranking things back up for a couple more weeks.

I’d like to have a house there.  It’s too far to drive for weekend skiing day trips.  Fun place to spend the weekend and holiday breaks though..

10 months ago

Umm, aren’t there two downhill ski areas in Canaan Valley?

10 months ago

yellowsnow wrote:

Umm, aren’t there two downhill ski areas in Canaan Valley?

1.5 if you combine the two 

10 months ago

lol - that was good. 

10 months ago

Do you like snowmobile races?  If so then you should buy at Timberline, because they always shutdown 1-2 weeks early to save the snow for them.

10 months ago

There are 3 downhill ski areas, two of which have mechanized uphill transport.

yellowsnow wrote:

Umm, aren’t there two downhill ski areas in Canaan Valley?

 

10 months ago

That makes it an uphill ski area….not that there’s anything wrong with that…. ;)

10 months ago

From Timberline’s Facebook a few days back: 

“A few announcements: As a reminder, just as most restaurants are closed on Mondays as a matter of course, Timberline—like every other ski resort in the country and region— scales down to administrative staff after ski season to evaluate the previous season, plan the next season, and… to take a break. 

This is our 31st year of addressing community and (now largely former) staff “rumors” that we are closing or selling Timberline. Behind the gossip is, unfortunately, a desire to create fear, uncertainty and doubt in the community and the public by competitors, disgruntled former employees, or merely low-end local gossip. We would like to assure you that if Timberline can survive the worst winter in the history of skiing, which we clearly have, we will be a presence both locally and in the southeast market for many years to come. 

Our property management division, Timberline Four Seasons Realty (304-866-2127) is running at its usual capacity for homeowners and renters enjoying the area under new management. Usually the scenic lift opens on Memorial Day. This year was a particularly rainy spring, so we elected to open the lift for the July 4 weekend—Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. We hope you will join us for a a fun-filled independence Day weekend.

Some of you have inquired about our zipline. This was a joint venture between ourselves and Nelson Rocks. Timberline has concluded that the staffing of the zip has been uneven, and the profits marginal. The assumption among the public has been that Timberline has been responsible for these failures. We have concluded that our partnership with Nelson Rocks has been one of uneven performance, and is therefore unworkable going forward. If you have visited our facility and noticed that the zipline is closed when it has been advertised as open, you begin to get the picture. Timberline considered operating the zipline itself, but concluded that our resources are better used in further developing recreational opportunities within the scope of our core mission of hiking, biking and skiing. 

The quicksilver industry of adventure recreation also leads to escalating adventure experiences, and a simple zipline no longer has the appeal it once did three years ago when this zip was installed. We wish our partners at Nelson Rocks all the best in developing and expanding its core mission throughout the region.

Thank you for your support, and see you this summer.”

10 months ago

There is no way their core mission is anything close to skiing. 

10 months ago

yellowsnow wrote:

That makes it an uphill ski area….not that there’s anything wrong with that…. ;)

 

I’ve seen some downhill videos from whitegrass that make me wish I was in good enough shape to enjoy the area.  It’s beautiful.  Unfortunately, I feel that I would have to start skiing around 6am to make it up the hill once.

10 months ago

AndyGene wrote:

yellowsnow wrote:

That makes it an uphill ski area….not that there’s anything wrong with that…. ;)

 

I’ve seen some downhill videos from whitegrass that make me wish I was in good enough shape to enjoy the area.  It’s beautiful.  Unfortunately, I feel that I would have to start skiing around 6am to make it up the hill once.

As a fat old man I can tell you it’s not that bad.  Technique more than strength.  MIne sucks but it’s easy to imagine spending time to improve.  And when you wear out you just turn around.   

10 months ago

As another fat old man I can endorse that.  Accept your limits, slow down, look around, appreciate where you are.  

9 months ago

Well snap my dragon…

9 months ago

dr bighair wrote:

Nothing to see here folks, just low end locals gossiping

 

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/WebDocket/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=452825&NotType=%27WebDocket

 

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/orders/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=451198&Source=Docket

Oh look at that.  I seem to recall they had a HUGE emergency equipment repair bill right before that power bill was due.. Creative financing??  Were they hoping the snowmobile races would generate the revenue required to pay the power bill and the lift repairs?  I guess we will see if they can resolve the debt before November to keep the juice and water flowing.

 

Gotta respect them for paying their employees first and making the power company wait.. as long as it doesn’t really result in home owners down line not having water..

9 months ago

Folks, let’s not go down this road again.  Making personal accusations or negative comments against individuals is against DCSki’s usage policy and won’t be tolerated.  (realmccoy: I deleted one of the two posts you made because it solidly crossed that line.)  You can describe why you like or dislike local ski resorts, but DCSki is not intended to be the National Enquirer of ski sites.

9 months ago

Nothing to see here folks, it’s nothing new, for thirty years just been low end locals rumors

http://www.whitegrass.com/downloads/Timberline%20Not%20Sold.doc

 

9 months ago

This, and other complaints/suits, will churn through the legal system but rest assured water service will not be cut off to homeowners nor power to the treatment plant.  No court would permit that.

9 months ago

yellowsnow wrote:

This, and other complaints/suits, will churn through the legal system but rest assured water service will not be cut off to homeowners nor power to the treatment plant.  No court would permit that.

This but if the resort did fold the costs of reworking the infrastructure around the no gone resort would be passed down to the homeowners still needing the services.

9 months ago

Well after everything said above this may sound crazy, but I just became the newest local in Old Timberline. Let’s hope things work out, and if not should make for some great touring/skinning. 

 

9 months ago

Congrats Joe!  Btw, what area is considered “Old” Timberline?

9 months ago

I am jelaus!  I would love to have a house in the mountains.

 

9 months ago

ChmxJoe,  way to go.   And if you love the place for all seasons anyway, have skins, and are not tthe type that is looking for some kind of rental payday, than you have done great.  I’m an outsider but I really love the canaan valley

 I was not clear from your post how familiar you are with the area, …if your user name, CHMX… indicates you have just sold your chalet in Chamonix, then I imagine you may have just purchased ALL of “old” Timberline

9 months ago

Lol, I did live in Chamonix, but as a ski bum in a place about the size of a large bathroom. However, it did look straight up at the Aguille Du Midi. 

I don’t think I’ll rent it as I want an escape from the madness of DC, and yes it’s even more beautiful out there in the summer (powder days excluded). 

@Bonski - if I’m not mistaken Old Timberline is all of the houses on the ridge sitting skier’s right of Timberline.

Now to start prioritzing the fix it list. It’s a big one! Anyone have suggestions on local contractors/handyman?

Cheers, 

9 months ago

We have used Mark III (based in Thomas) and have found their work to be high quality, though a bit pricey too.

9 months ago

ChmxJoe74 wrote:

@Bonski - if I’m not mistaken Old Timberline is all of the houses on the ridge sitting skier’s right of Timberline.

Now to start prioritzing the fix it list. It’s a big one! Anyone have suggestions on local contractors/handyman?

Cheers, 

Oh okay.  I bought in Old Snowshoe last Nov.  Been remodeling since, mostly DIY.  Started hardwood floors this weekend.  My advice is to befriend many neighbors and get their advice re contractors.  The good ones are busy so be patient, which I’m not.  Good luck!

9 months ago

Great advice, hopefully I’ll get to know some at the upcoming Beer/Music Fest. I’m going to try and DIY as much as I can, which should be quite the learning process. 

9 months ago

ChmxJoe74 wrote:

Great advice, hopefully I’ll get to know some at the upcoming Beer/Music Fest. I’m going to try and DIY as much as I can, which should be quite the learning process. 

If you have many projects to tackle I recommend picking a few DIY and some hire out.  I don’t rent my place out either, but if you change you mind here’s a good article summarizing the income/tax implications:

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/tax-rules-renting-vacation-home.aspx

8 months ago

Sure glad I don’t own any real estate at T-lime! Did have some at SS but sold for half the purchase price just to stop the bleeding!!!

8 months ago

Thanks for the hearing summary RM.  I was hoping to be there myself but the timing didn’t work out.  As a long-time Timberline homeowner and Timberline Utilities customer this situation is beyond frustrating.  Hopefully the September 8 hearing will shine some nice clean light on things, but I won’t be holding my breath.

8 months ago

Still bet they used the utilities money to fix the lift.  I guess if it was a choice between paying their employees and fixing the lift versus paying the city and utility companies I could see that would be a tough decision of which to put off til summer. 

8 months ago

This four season mountain resort - in business for over 30 years - and within 3.5 hours driving time of 6 million people - can’t come up with $85k to pay a utility bill?  Something very wrong with this picture. 

7 months ago

Perhaps a way to raise capital, short sighted in the long term scheme of things.

MorganB

aka The Colonel

7 months ago

Long term scheme of things will probably not involve the current owners.  

7 months ago

The Colonel wrote:

Perhaps a way to raise capital, short sighted in the long term scheme of things.

MorganB

aka The Colonel

About as short sighted as selling season passes that are good for 3-4 years. This insn’t the first time we’ve called out their blatant attempt to survive. 

7 months ago

Where’s the GoFundMe page for their utility bills?  Again though, I have to respect thier decision to pay their employees and fix the lift before paying the utility bill if they truly didn’t have the capital to pall all of the above.  I love mom and pop places but draw the line at hazardous equipment.

7 months ago

David wrote:

The Colonel wrote:

Perhaps a way to raise capital, short sighted in the long term scheme of things.

MorganB

aka The Colonel

About as short sighted as selling season passes that are good for 3-4 years. This insn’t the first time we’ve called out their blatant attempt to survive.

Not the wisest money/business move on their part.

But if they do open this year (or future owners somehow partially honor the previous passes), I’ll come out ahead. So, I won’t yell too loudly on this one.

7 months ago

crgildart wrote:

Where’s the GoFundMe page for their utility bills?  Again though, I have to respect thier decision to pay their employees and fix the lift before paying the utility bill if they truly didn’t have the capital to pall all of the above.  I love mom and pop places but draw the line at hazardous equipment.

I don’t know how much Scott will let me get away with. You are assuming they are in good standing with paying off their lift repair bills. Just commenting on your assumption. I DON’T KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF YOUR ASSUMPTION IS TRUE OR FALSE. But you know what the say about “assume.”

 

7 months ago

JohnL wrote:

crgildart wrote:

Where’s the GoFundMe page for their utility bills?  Again though, I have to respect thier decision to pay their employees and fix the lift before paying the utility bill if they truly didn’t have the capital to pall all of the above.  I love mom and pop places but draw the line at hazardous equipment.

I don’t know how much Scott will let me get away with. You are assuming they are in good standing with paying off their lift repair bills. Just commenting on your assumption. I DON’T KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF YOUR ASSUMPTION IS TRUE OR FALSE. But you know what the say about “assume.”

 

I understand this is a topic some readers are interested in, but since this consistently goes in a direction where some users are posting incendiary information, rumors that I can’t verify, unprofessional content that violates DCSki’s usage policy, etc., I’m going to have to ask folks to find a different venue for these kinds of discussions.  As I said before, I don’t want DCSki to become the National Enquirer of ski sites, and I no longer have the energy for this.  Please respect that.

7 months ago

Scott wrote:

JohnL wrote:

crgildart wrote:

Where’s the GoFundMe page for their utility bills?  Again though, I have to respect thier decision to pay their employees and fix the lift before paying the utility bill if they truly didn’t have the capital to pall all of the above.  I love mom and pop places but draw the line at hazardous equipment.

I don’t know how much Scott will let me get away with. You are assuming they are in good standing with paying off their lift repair bills. Just commenting on your assumption. I DON’T KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF YOUR ASSUMPTION IS TRUE OR FALSE. But you know what the say about “assume.”

 

I understand this is a topic some readers are interested in, but since this consistently goes in a direction where some users are posting incendiary information, rumors that I can’t verify, unprofessional content that violates DCSki’s usage policy, etc., I’m going to have to ask folks to find a different venue for these kinds of discussions.  As I said before, I don’t want DCSki to become the National Enquirer of ski sites, and I no longer have the energy for this.  Please respect that.

Understand Scott.

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/orders/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=456982&Source=Docket

 

7 months ago

This thread has amnesia

7 months ago

I read the referenced Sept 8 Hearing  info and have a curious question: what is difference between Timberline Utilities and Timberline Management?

7 months ago

JohnL wrote:

crgildart wrote:

Where’s the GoFundMe page for their utility bills?  Again though, I have to respect thier decision to pay their employees and fix the lift before paying the utility bill if they truly didn’t have the capital to pall all of the above.  I love mom and pop places but draw the line at hazardous equipment.

I don’t know how much Scott will let me get away with. You are assuming they are in good standing with paying off their lift repair bills. Just commenting on your assumption. I DON’T KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF YOUR ASSUMPTION IS TRUE OR FALSE. But you know what the say about “assume.”

 

Actually, I never said they PAID to fix the lift.  I said.. ” I have to respect thier decision to pay their employees and fix the lift ”.  What I assume is that they fixed the lift because that benefited the workers (who got to earn more money as rather than being way short of earning expectations for the season) and the pass holders (for obvious resons).  If they didn’t pay their employees that’s something I’d be very interesting in knowing before deciding to ski there ever again.  That place in Canada with the patroller dispute is still on my NEVER EVER list..

7 months ago

TomH wrote:

Heh Timberline Resort Management.  Since your demise seems to be greatly exaggerated could you please update your webpage with your closing date for the 2016-2017 season.  It currently reads March 13, 2016 - unless that is the actual closing date for 2016-2017 season.  I know the Canaan Valley Resorts find this hard to believe but skiers actually make significant financial decisions regarding where to ski, western trips and long term rentals based on decision the local resorts make.  It would be nice if you could at least give us the proposed opening and closing dates (at the bare minimum).  Maybe even post on here as well so we know you are alive and well.

Thanks

I just did a random sampling of the 25+ ski resorts that DCSki covers, and not one has announced a tentative opening or closing date for the 2016-2017 winter season.  Not Whitetail.  Not Seven Springs.  Not Snowshoe Mountain.  Not Wisp.  Few have announced their mid-season event calendars for the upcoming season, partly because it’s still September.

Given the crazy variability in early and late season conditions in the Mid-Atlantic (one only needs to look at last season, when it was in the mid-70s on Christmas Eve), the trend has been away from announcing proposed opening dates.  In the 20+ years I’ve been running DCSki, rarely have I seen resorts hit their proposed opening and closing dates.  If you’ve invented some kind of magical weather crystal ball, I’m sure the local resorts would be happy to receive your advice.  There’s risk to anyone making financial decisions based on the book ends of the Mid-Atlantic ski season.  The only thing you can bank on is that resorts will open when there is enough snow and it makes business sense for them to do so, and they’ll end their season when the snow runs out or skiers stop visiting.  Those decisions can’t be made with any semblance of accuracy in September.

7 months ago

I think you are going to see a bunch of not advertised tentative dates after last winter. For example snowshoe posted something on Facebook for a countdown to a 11/23 opening. (They are also selling lift tickets for 11/23-3/26, so I suspect there are your tentative dates there)

After last year, I don’t think you will see too much hype until the snow guns are on at most resorts

7 months ago

rbrtlav wrote:

I think you are going to see a bunch of not advertised tentative dates after last winter. For example snowshoe posted something on Facebook for a countdown to a 11/23 opening. (They are also selling lift tickets for 11/23-3/26, so I suspect there are your tentative dates there)

After last year, I don’t think you will see too much hype until the snow guns are on at most resorts

Except CVR. Just 3 threads down from this one on the main page. They’re throwing their hat in the ring already. 

“we plan to open the ski area on December 10 and remain open until March 19, 2017.”

7 months ago

I have to disagree with you. Even out west resorts that try to open early, when conditions are likely to be iffy., don’t post opening dates. Look at the Loveland and A-Basin’s websites and tell me what their opening dates are. You can’t because the dates are not there, and yet these two will likely be the first areas in North America  that open this year - in October. . When in October? They don’t know. They don’t even say October. They very nearly missed it last year.

What’s the point of posting an opening date when you really mean ” just fooling, we may or may not be open” and everyone knows it?

 

TomH wrote:

But that holds true in the northeast and the west as well.  But most of those resorts post tentative opening and closing dates.  ………  Tentative opening and closing dates of December 8 - April 1 snow conditions permittting.  Heh how hard is that!!

 

 

7 months ago

TomH wrote:

Oh - by the way if I was going to run a ski resort to make some dough I think Vail would be a good place to base my model on:

http://www.vail.com/faqdetail/Mountain-Information/What-are-the-resorts-opening-and-closing-dates.axd

Now I know I can book a vacation at these places during these periods and if there is a base they will be open. Period.

 

The difference between Vail and the mid Atlantic is PREDICTABILITY. Vail KNOWS it will either have enough natural snow or cold enough temps to blow enouigh snow to be open on the dates that they say they will be open. Roundtop et all don’t have that ability. Using Vail as the model is using the wrong model.

Let’s see what  Vail resorts does when it has a hill in a place with iffy snow condtions: Ski Wilmot (Vail’s newest hill outside of Chicago). Here’s what was on Wilmot’s webpage two minutes ago:

“”Hours and Pricing Information coming this Fall.For questions, email contact@wilmotmountain.com”“

So when Vail is faced with iffy snow condtions for one of it’s hills, it does EXACTLY what mid Atlantic resorts do: it does not announce an opening date. Whaddyaknow!

 

FYI, Vail’s other two midwest (iffy snow)  resorts outside of Detroit and Minneaplos don’t have opening dates available yet, either.

 

 

7 months ago

I think that you can go on past history to get it close for opening and closing.  In the past hills like t-line used to remain open thru mid April, conditions permitting.  The same with Snowshoe.  Recently, though, they have closed in late March, mainly due to the low number of paying skier visits which is walk up business instead of season pass holders.  If there was a marketing plan in place pushing late season skiing we might see a return to later closing dates.    As for opening, it’s a crap shoot.  Advertise a tentative date and all will realize why. If I were running a ski area I’d shoot for the earliest possible date to open whatever terrain I could because the public is anxious to get on snow.  Cataloochie in NC is a perfect example as they are usually the first hill open in the east and have killer snowmaking.  K-mart is next in line and notfar behind.  As a  former season pass holder, I never let it bother me as far as open/close dates even if I had a seasonal rental.  I wasn’t concerned because I knew my turns would be good whenever it happened. 

7 months ago

TomH wrote:

 Suppose I want to plan a ski vacation that week and I prefer to stay local but I want to lock it down. Guess what guys - I’m not booking in the valley. I’m going to find a resort I know for sure will be open if there is snow that week.

Suppose you want to plan a ski vacation, and you make a non-refundable payment on a condo — and the resort that “you were sure was going to be open”  turns out to NOT be open. It’s cost you your non refundable payment AND your ski vaction - after all you could have gone to a place that was open, I don’t know about you, but if that were to happen to me, I would be real PO’d.

7 months ago

TomH wrote:

 

Bob - I looked at Ski Wilmot and it clearly isn’t a destination resort.

A Basin and Loveland ARE destination resorts - especially early and late season, and they don’t publish opening dates because they don’t know for sure when they’re going to be able to open.No resort should publish an opening date unless it is reasonably confident that it really will be able to open on that date - at least IMO

As far as closing dates the mantra for those two HAS ALWAYS been - Loveland will close the first Sunday in May(see what snow predicability gets you), and A-Basin will close when it  runs out of snow (May, June, July — whenver)

So much for clsoing date predicability late season at A-Basin

7 months ago

Tom,

I’m still struggling a bit to understand your argument.  It is a fact of life that ski conditions in the Mid-Atlantic are unpredictable at the beginning and end of the season (or even mid-season — I’ve seen resorts temporarily close in January due to warm temperatures).  How is it reasonable to make your business decisions based on these make-believe, tentative opening/closing dates that historically don’t track with reality?  Personally, I wouldn’t book a trip now at the tail end of a season in the Mid-Atlantic because the risk would be too high.  Heck, I’d be hesitant to do it at the bookends of a season in Colorado or Utah.  I took that risk once, booking a trip to Deer Valley in December (http://www.dcski.com/articles/1160).  Should be plenty of snow then, right?  They only had a tiny fraction of their terrain open.  Conditions were much better back home!

I guess I understand that you’re trying to set your rental dates, but is this a rental property you own year-round?  If someone books early in the season and there’s no snow, do you lock them in a contract so you have no risk and they’re forced to pay?  I’m asking because I want to learn; I don’t rent out properties myself.

I have a good understanding of the business side of local ski resorts because I interact with them frequently.  This is a brutal place to run a ski resort, and the climate trends have not been favorable to our area.  Even for year-round resorts, the vast majority of income comes from a very compressed, and highly variable, ski season.  Last winter, local resorts weren’t able to get off the ground until January, missing the all-important holiday week between Christmas and New Years.  There are large daily costs associated with keeping a mountain open and staffed.  And every year, as soon as we get the first mild day in late February or early March, visit rates plummet.  The floor just drops out.  I’ve been to popular resorts like Whitetail in early March once the weather has started warming, and I’ve counted more employees than guests.  On days like that, it costs a resort far more money to stay open than the revenue it brings in.  Even if another cold wave comes in, the damage has been done — most skier’s brains switch to springtime activities and they hang up the skis and snowboards.  I get very depressed when I look at resort webcams in mid- to late-March and see plenty of snow left on the slopes after the resorts have closed up shop for the season, but I completely understand the economics of the decision they made and there’s simply no arguing with it.  Really, there isn’t.  Honestly, do you really think that resorts are making a decision to close early even while they’re still continuing to make a profit?  They want to squeeze *every* *last* *penny* of profit out of their compressed seasons.  They see the numbers; they know when the cross-over point is.

Resorts which have had a banner season may stay open later as a gesture of good will to their season passholders, but they’re doing it at a break-even point or a loss.  And in years like the past year, where they lost the entire beginning of the season, there’s simply no way they could intentionally lose money by extending their season past a profitable point.  They have little control over weather and when the season can begin, but they can control when to end the season, and that is always a business decision.  Every resort sees their own data; we don’t.

7 months ago

Seriously, do we need to be told the dates?   I think we have this down by now.  Snowshoe will try to open for Thanksgiving but generally won’t make it.  Timberline doesn’t try to open until about Dec 12, give or take, basically to build base for the holidays, and then will max out between mlk and presidents and then wind down as soon as possible.  CVR will be pretty close, mabye a little later start and later close.  Wisp will do better.  Wintgergreen, in a normal year, will surprisingly open later and close later than just about anyone outside NC.   Speaking of which, Cataloochee and Sugar will open as soon as they get 72 hours of cold in November, but will thin out during the year.  If Easter is early, Cataloochee and App will try to stay open to make it.  Snowy Luau will be like March 15 and anything after that is unplanned.  Showshoe will probably close the first weekend in April and the snow will be very good.   Whitegrass will probably have one early (nov, dec) big snow and one late big snow and be sporadic but mostly open in the usual areas during the year.  Hopefully, the valley will get the regular lake storm cycles all during January and build up a big base, but if not watch out for the slednecks.  There, I just saved you a ton of time surfing web sites.  Scott you can PM me for the address to send my check.  Speaking of Scott, unlike him, I will see the deep snow, blue skies, and thin crowds after Pres day and think now it’s time to get serous about skiing this year!

Edit @TomH.  This is still south of mason dixon.  Do not make ski plans 4 weeks in advance without including plane tickets to Utah or ‘Rado.  Seriously.  

7 months ago

TomH wrote:

Now if they could put snow blower on top of that pole they put in the middle of white lightening last year I will be a 100 percent happy season passholder

jeebus, that would be even more of a danger, must be why i always ski on the edges of that slope anyway.  i still miss the trees.  

7 months ago

Why not add a little XC ski touring to your repetoire and free your mind from having to base all skiing plans and decisions around whether or not a big mechanical lift is running?  Like when we get dumped on this year in mid november! :)

6 months ago

Looks like the can is getting kicked down the road (to March 2017):

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/WebDocket/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=459377

20 days ago

ubu wrote:

Looks like the can is getting kicked down the road (to March 2017):

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/WebDocket/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=459377

March 30 has come and gone… any news here?

20 days ago

Here

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/WebDocket/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=468471&NotType=%27WebDocket%27

 

20 days ago

So….Timberline has to pay back like $11k / month for the foreseeable future and fix some old water meters?  That’s it i guess?

20 days ago

I cannot believe that I just read most of the agreement between TL and those that were suing TL. 

I think I saw that TL had new financing and would make a single payment for the $300K+ that is owed.  Anybody know the source of the new financing and does it include enough new cash for TL to make badly needed improvements to the TL ski operation to include snowmaking and lifts?!  Yes, without a single catch up payment TL will need to pay $11K monthly for past unpaid utility bills and also must pay all current bills on time.  This would remove the source of repurposed income that essentially appears to have kept TL afloat in the recent past.  

What a goat rope!!!

Anybody know more?!

18 days ago

Amazing no one ended up in prison; improperly taking funds out of a utility is pretty serious business. Don’t expect any major changes, Hope for a 200 inch snow year; it is what has bailed them out in the past.

 This would remove the source of repurposed income that essentially appears to have kept TL afloat in the recent past.  

18 days ago

CVPSD was alarmed when it reviewed the Staff report, showing that revenue was coming to TFSU from its customers, but not being paid to CVPSD and instead, going out to affiliates of TFSU. Mr. Metzger believes the record showed approximately $368,000 being transferred from TFSU to its affiliates. Additionally, the affiliates were not paying TFSU for utility services and owed TFSU approximately $104,000. (Tr. 73). 

18 days ago

Reviewing TFSU banking records, Mr. Herz acknowledged that on the January 30 statement from 2015, that there was an internet transfer from TFSU’s business checking on January 30 in the amount of $lS,000 that was transferred to an account of TFSRM. (Tr. 121). On March 26,2016, check number 7495 was drawn on a TFSU account payable in the amount of $40,000 to TFSRM. (Tr. 122). Mr. Herz could not explain the particulars of the $40,000 transfer. (Tr. 122). Mr. Herz could not explain the transfer of money memorialized by check number 7514 dated August 27,201 5 , drawn on a TFSU account payable to TFSRM in the amount of $20,000. (Tr. 123). Mr. Herz could not explain the transfer made via check 7535 on TFSU’s account dated May 15, 2015, payable to TFSRM in the amount of $30,000. Mr. Herz could not explain the internet transfer of $10,000 from a TFSU account to a TFSRM account made on June 26, 2015. (Tr. 123). He also could not explain the internet transfer made on July 31, 2015, o f $30,000 from TFSU to TFSRM. (Tr. 124). He was also unable to explain the transfer of $20,000 on August 21,2015, from TFSU to TFSRM, nor was he able to explain the internet transfer dated August 26, 2015, in the amount of $5,000 from TFSU to TFSRM. (Tr. 124, 125). Also unexplained was the September 18, 2015, internet transfer of $10,000 from TFSU to TFSRM. (Tr. 125). Mr. Herz could not explain the $5,000 internet transfer from TFSU to TFSRM made on December 20,2015, nor could the December 11,2015, internet transfcr from TFSU to TFSRM in the amount of $20,000 be explained. (Tr. 126, 127). Mr. Herz had no explanation for the December 21, 2015, internet transfer from TFSU to TFSRM in the amount of $5,000 or the second transfer on the same date in an additional amount of $10,000. The February 16, 2016, $20,000transferfromtheutilitytoTFSRMalsoremainedunexplained. (Tr.127). 

Mr. Herz believes that one would have to hire a forensic accountant to examine the flow of cash from TFSU to TFSRM if one wanted to identify the specific use of proceeds of each of the transfers. (Tr. 139). Mr. Herz is open to discussing how assurances could be made to CVPSD and the Commission that funds would not be improperly transferred from TFSU to TFSRM in the future. (Tr. 140). Mr. Herz is working on getting financing to refinance the resort. (Tr. 141). Mr. Herz assured CVPSD that if he runs into additional problems in paying its bills, he will contact CVPSD and try to talk about how the issue can be resolved. (Tr. 141). 

18 days ago

CVPSD =  Canaan Valley Public Service District, a public utility

TFSU = Timberline Four Seasons Utilities

TFSRM = Timberline Four Seasons Resort Management, Inc.

18 days ago

As a reminder, DCSki’s Rules of Conduct state that “posting negative comments about an individual is unacceptable.”  (I just removed a post that violated this rule.)

17 days ago

Using a utility payment escrow as a slush fund is pretty shocking.  Gotta wonder if they’ve been keeping up with their liability and property insurance as well..

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