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Timberline's Future
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2 years ago

Hello,

I’m in the process of looking at homes for sale in Old Timberline. I’ve been skiing there for years, and have an affinity for it’s rustic charm that reminds me of the older ski resorts in upstate NY. However with a number of friends that live out that way telling me that it sounds like bankruptcy proceedings may already be in process I’m very hesitant to purchase. Does anyone have information, views, or opinions? I’m all ears as I don’t want to buy a place that has the lifts shut down. 

Thanks,

Joe

2 years ago

I am a current Timberline homeowner.  I have no real “inside information” but people I know who are in a position to know, do not say that bankruptcy is imminent.  Forecasting the financial demise of Timberline has been a favorite sport around here for many years, and yet the current owners remain in business.  

But here’s a thought from a different angle:  In the past 4 years, both Wisp and Wintergreen have either gone through bankruptcy (Wisp) or narrowly avoided it (Wintergreen) according to published news stories.  Those are both bigger resorts that from the outside appear more stable than Timberline.  Running a ski area south of the Mason-Dixon line is just an inherently unstable business.  But even when resorts do go through bankruptcy, sometimes (if they find a buyer with new capital to invest) they emerge stronger after bankruptcy than before. 

2 years ago

Joe - you asked for opinions so here ya go.

There appears to be a history of early closings, late openings and mechanical issues.  Why would YOU want to bear that risk with YOUR hard earned money?

I was told a few years ago that seasonal rentals are very affordable.  Why not go that route until things stabilize there?  If things got bad there then you are only on the hook for that seasons rent.  You could always buy in at a later date.  Stability may come at a little premium in price but sleeping well at night has value.

As a Snowshoe homeowner, R/E prices are hardly increasing since the real estate crash and things are fairly stable in our neck of the woods.  

Don’t let that affinity for its rustic charm fool you.  Writing checks to own and maintain property that can’t be used (skiing) is real and it sucks.  Nov and Dec 2015 were eye openers for many people —- and put me at the top of that list.

2 years ago

Don’t buy a house in the Canaan Valley area based on a ski resort. Buy a house in the Canaan Valley area because you love the Canaan Valley area all the months you can’t ski.

 

ChmxJoe74 wrote:

Hello,

I’m in the process of looking at homes for sale in Old Timberline. I’ve been skiing there for years, and have an affinity for it’s rustic charm that reminds me of the older ski resorts in upstate NY. However with a number of friends that live out that way telling me that it sounds like bankruptcy proceedings may already be in process I’m very hesitant to purchase. Does anyone have information, views, or opinions? I’m all ears as I don’t want to buy a place that has the lifts shut down. 

Thanks,

Joe

 

2 years ago

T-line suffered a pretty catestrophic lift failure with only a month or so remaining in the season.  Rather than give up and spend the summer patching things up they ponied up and surprised everyone by throwing the kitchen sink at the lift upgrading the supports on all of the lift towers while fixing the fallen one. 

That convinced me they are serious about staying in the ski resort business.  However, there may be legal action pending from people that were injured when the tower top fell.  No clue if there are still costs to settle up there but again, they could have easily shut it all down when that lift came crashing down rather than getting after it and cranking things back up for a couple more weeks.

I’d like to have a house there.  It’s too far to drive for weekend skiing day trips.  Fun place to spend the weekend and holiday breaks though..

2 years ago

Umm, aren’t there two downhill ski areas in Canaan Valley?

2 years ago

yellowsnow wrote:

Umm, aren’t there two downhill ski areas in Canaan Valley?

1.5 if you combine the two 

2 years ago

lol - that was good. 

2 years ago

Do you like snowmobile races?  If so then you should buy at Timberline, because they always shutdown 1-2 weeks early to save the snow for them.

2 years ago

There are 3 downhill ski areas, two of which have mechanized uphill transport.

yellowsnow wrote:

Umm, aren’t there two downhill ski areas in Canaan Valley?

 

2 years ago

That makes it an uphill ski area….not that there’s anything wrong with that…. ;)

2 years ago

From Timberline’s Facebook a few days back: 

“A few announcements: As a reminder, just as most restaurants are closed on Mondays as a matter of course, Timberline—like every other ski resort in the country and region— scales down to administrative staff after ski season to evaluate the previous season, plan the next season, and… to take a break. 

This is our 31st year of addressing community and (now largely former) staff “rumors” that we are closing or selling Timberline. Behind the gossip is, unfortunately, a desire to create fear, uncertainty and doubt in the community and the public by competitors, disgruntled former employees, or merely low-end local gossip. We would like to assure you that if Timberline can survive the worst winter in the history of skiing, which we clearly have, we will be a presence both locally and in the southeast market for many years to come. 

Our property management division, Timberline Four Seasons Realty (304-866-2127) is running at its usual capacity for homeowners and renters enjoying the area under new management. Usually the scenic lift opens on Memorial Day. This year was a particularly rainy spring, so we elected to open the lift for the July 4 weekend—Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. We hope you will join us for a a fun-filled independence Day weekend.

Some of you have inquired about our zipline. This was a joint venture between ourselves and Nelson Rocks. Timberline has concluded that the staffing of the zip has been uneven, and the profits marginal. The assumption among the public has been that Timberline has been responsible for these failures. We have concluded that our partnership with Nelson Rocks has been one of uneven performance, and is therefore unworkable going forward. If you have visited our facility and noticed that the zipline is closed when it has been advertised as open, you begin to get the picture. Timberline considered operating the zipline itself, but concluded that our resources are better used in further developing recreational opportunities within the scope of our core mission of hiking, biking and skiing. 

The quicksilver industry of adventure recreation also leads to escalating adventure experiences, and a simple zipline no longer has the appeal it once did three years ago when this zip was installed. We wish our partners at Nelson Rocks all the best in developing and expanding its core mission throughout the region.

Thank you for your support, and see you this summer.”

2 years ago

There is no way their core mission is anything close to skiing. 

2 years ago

yellowsnow wrote:

That makes it an uphill ski area….not that there’s anything wrong with that…. ;)

 

I’ve seen some downhill videos from whitegrass that make me wish I was in good enough shape to enjoy the area.  It’s beautiful.  Unfortunately, I feel that I would have to start skiing around 6am to make it up the hill once.

2 years ago

AndyGene wrote:

yellowsnow wrote:

That makes it an uphill ski area….not that there’s anything wrong with that…. ;)

 

I’ve seen some downhill videos from whitegrass that make me wish I was in good enough shape to enjoy the area.  It’s beautiful.  Unfortunately, I feel that I would have to start skiing around 6am to make it up the hill once.

As a fat old man I can tell you it’s not that bad.  Technique more than strength.  MIne sucks but it’s easy to imagine spending time to improve.  And when you wear out you just turn around.   

Denis - DCSki Supporter
2 years ago

As another fat old man I can endorse that.  Accept your limits, slow down, look around, appreciate where you are.  

2 years ago

Well snap my dragon…

2 years ago

dr bighair wrote:

Nothing to see here folks, just low end locals gossiping

 

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/WebDocket/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=452825&NotType=%27WebDocket

 

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/orders/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=451198&Source=Docket

Oh look at that.  I seem to recall they had a HUGE emergency equipment repair bill right before that power bill was due.. Creative financing??  Were they hoping the snowmobile races would generate the revenue required to pay the power bill and the lift repairs?  I guess we will see if they can resolve the debt before November to keep the juice and water flowing.

 

Gotta respect them for paying their employees first and making the power company wait.. as long as it doesn’t really result in home owners down line not having water..

Scott - DCSki Supporter
2 years ago

Folks, let’s not go down this road again.  Making personal accusations or negative comments against individuals is against DCSki’s usage policy and won’t be tolerated.  (realmccoy: I deleted one of the two posts you made because it solidly crossed that line.)  You can describe why you like or dislike local ski resorts, but DCSki is not intended to be the National Enquirer of ski sites.

2 years ago

Nothing to see here folks, it’s nothing new, for thirty years just been low end locals rumors

http://www.whitegrass.com/downloads/Timberline%20Not%20Sold.doc

 

2 years ago

This, and other complaints/suits, will churn through the legal system but rest assured water service will not be cut off to homeowners nor power to the treatment plant.  No court would permit that.

2 years ago

yellowsnow wrote:

This, and other complaints/suits, will churn through the legal system but rest assured water service will not be cut off to homeowners nor power to the treatment plant.  No court would permit that.

This but if the resort did fold the costs of reworking the infrastructure around the no gone resort would be passed down to the homeowners still needing the services.

2 years ago

Well after everything said above this may sound crazy, but I just became the newest local in Old Timberline. Let’s hope things work out, and if not should make for some great touring/skinning. 

 

2 years ago

Congrats Joe!  Btw, what area is considered “Old” Timberline?

2 years ago

I am jelaus!  I would love to have a house in the mountains.

 

2 years ago

ChmxJoe,  way to go.   And if you love the place for all seasons anyway, have skins, and are not tthe type that is looking for some kind of rental payday, than you have done great.  I’m an outsider but I really love the canaan valley

 I was not clear from your post how familiar you are with the area, …if your user name, CHMX… indicates you have just sold your chalet in Chamonix, then I imagine you may have just purchased ALL of “old” Timberline

2 years ago

Lol, I did live in Chamonix, but as a ski bum in a place about the size of a large bathroom. However, it did look straight up at the Aguille Du Midi. 

I don’t think I’ll rent it as I want an escape from the madness of DC, and yes it’s even more beautiful out there in the summer (powder days excluded). 

@Bonski - if I’m not mistaken Old Timberline is all of the houses on the ridge sitting skier’s right of Timberline.

Now to start prioritzing the fix it list. It’s a big one! Anyone have suggestions on local contractors/handyman?

Cheers, 

2 years ago

We have used Mark III (based in Thomas) and have found their work to be high quality, though a bit pricey too.

2 years ago

ChmxJoe74 wrote:

@Bonski - if I’m not mistaken Old Timberline is all of the houses on the ridge sitting skier’s right of Timberline.

Now to start prioritzing the fix it list. It’s a big one! Anyone have suggestions on local contractors/handyman?

Cheers, 

Oh okay.  I bought in Old Snowshoe last Nov.  Been remodeling since, mostly DIY.  Started hardwood floors this weekend.  My advice is to befriend many neighbors and get their advice re contractors.  The good ones are busy so be patient, which I’m not.  Good luck!

2 years ago

Great advice, hopefully I’ll get to know some at the upcoming Beer/Music Fest. I’m going to try and DIY as much as I can, which should be quite the learning process. 

2 years ago

ChmxJoe74 wrote:

Great advice, hopefully I’ll get to know some at the upcoming Beer/Music Fest. I’m going to try and DIY as much as I can, which should be quite the learning process. 

If you have many projects to tackle I recommend picking a few DIY and some hire out.  I don’t rent my place out either, but if you change you mind here’s a good article summarizing the income/tax implications:

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/tax-rules-renting-vacation-home.aspx

one year ago

Sure glad I don’t own any real estate at T-lime! Did have some at SS but sold for half the purchase price just to stop the bleeding!!!

one year ago

Thanks for the hearing summary RM.  I was hoping to be there myself but the timing didn’t work out.  As a long-time Timberline homeowner and Timberline Utilities customer this situation is beyond frustrating.  Hopefully the September 8 hearing will shine some nice clean light on things, but I won’t be holding my breath.

one year ago

Still bet they used the utilities money to fix the lift.  I guess if it was a choice between paying their employees and fixing the lift versus paying the city and utility companies I could see that would be a tough decision of which to put off til summer. 

one year ago

This four season mountain resort - in business for over 30 years - and within 3.5 hours driving time of 6 million people - can’t come up with $85k to pay a utility bill?  Something very wrong with this picture. 

one year ago

Perhaps a way to raise capital, short sighted in the long term scheme of things.

MorganB

aka The Colonel

one year ago

Long term scheme of things will probably not involve the current owners.  

one year ago

The Colonel wrote:

Perhaps a way to raise capital, short sighted in the long term scheme of things.

MorganB

aka The Colonel

About as short sighted as selling season passes that are good for 3-4 years. This insn’t the first time we’ve called out their blatant attempt to survive. 

one year ago

Where’s the GoFundMe page for their utility bills?  Again though, I have to respect thier decision to pay their employees and fix the lift before paying the utility bill if they truly didn’t have the capital to pall all of the above.  I love mom and pop places but draw the line at hazardous equipment.

one year ago

David wrote:

The Colonel wrote:

Perhaps a way to raise capital, short sighted in the long term scheme of things.

MorganB

aka The Colonel

About as short sighted as selling season passes that are good for 3-4 years. This insn’t the first time we’ve called out their blatant attempt to survive.

Not the wisest money/business move on their part.

But if they do open this year (or future owners somehow partially honor the previous passes), I’ll come out ahead. So, I won’t yell too loudly on this one.

one year ago

crgildart wrote:

Where’s the GoFundMe page for their utility bills?  Again though, I have to respect thier decision to pay their employees and fix the lift before paying the utility bill if they truly didn’t have the capital to pall all of the above.  I love mom and pop places but draw the line at hazardous equipment.

I don’t know how much Scott will let me get away with. You are assuming they are in good standing with paying off their lift repair bills. Just commenting on your assumption. I DON’T KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF YOUR ASSUMPTION IS TRUE OR FALSE. But you know what the say about “assume.”

 

Scott - DCSki Supporter
one year ago

JohnL wrote:

crgildart wrote:

Where’s the GoFundMe page for their utility bills?  Again though, I have to respect thier decision to pay their employees and fix the lift before paying the utility bill if they truly didn’t have the capital to pall all of the above.  I love mom and pop places but draw the line at hazardous equipment.

I don’t know how much Scott will let me get away with. You are assuming they are in good standing with paying off their lift repair bills. Just commenting on your assumption. I DON’T KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF YOUR ASSUMPTION IS TRUE OR FALSE. But you know what the say about “assume.”

 

I understand this is a topic some readers are interested in, but since this consistently goes in a direction where some users are posting incendiary information, rumors that I can’t verify, unprofessional content that violates DCSki’s usage policy, etc., I’m going to have to ask folks to find a different venue for these kinds of discussions.  As I said before, I don’t want DCSki to become the National Enquirer of ski sites, and I no longer have the energy for this.  Please respect that.

one year ago

Scott wrote:

JohnL wrote:

crgildart wrote:

Where’s the GoFundMe page for their utility bills?  Again though, I have to respect thier decision to pay their employees and fix the lift before paying the utility bill if they truly didn’t have the capital to pall all of the above.  I love mom and pop places but draw the line at hazardous equipment.

I don’t know how much Scott will let me get away with. You are assuming they are in good standing with paying off their lift repair bills. Just commenting on your assumption. I DON’T KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF YOUR ASSUMPTION IS TRUE OR FALSE. But you know what the say about “assume.”

 

I understand this is a topic some readers are interested in, but since this consistently goes in a direction where some users are posting incendiary information, rumors that I can’t verify, unprofessional content that violates DCSki’s usage policy, etc., I’m going to have to ask folks to find a different venue for these kinds of discussions.  As I said before, I don’t want DCSki to become the National Enquirer of ski sites, and I no longer have the energy for this.  Please respect that.

Understand Scott.

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/orders/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=456982&Source=Docket

 

one year ago

This thread has amnesia

one year ago

I read the referenced Sept 8 Hearing  info and have a curious question: what is difference between Timberline Utilities and Timberline Management?

one year ago

JohnL wrote:

crgildart wrote:

Where’s the GoFundMe page for their utility bills?  Again though, I have to respect thier decision to pay their employees and fix the lift before paying the utility bill if they truly didn’t have the capital to pall all of the above.  I love mom and pop places but draw the line at hazardous equipment.

I don’t know how much Scott will let me get away with. You are assuming they are in good standing with paying off their lift repair bills. Just commenting on your assumption. I DON’T KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF YOUR ASSUMPTION IS TRUE OR FALSE. But you know what the say about “assume.”

 

Actually, I never said they PAID to fix the lift.  I said.. ” I have to respect thier decision to pay their employees and fix the lift ”.  What I assume is that they fixed the lift because that benefited the workers (who got to earn more money as rather than being way short of earning expectations for the season) and the pass holders (for obvious resons).  If they didn’t pay their employees that’s something I’d be very interesting in knowing before deciding to ski there ever again.  That place in Canada with the patroller dispute is still on my NEVER EVER list..

Scott - DCSki Supporter
one year ago

TomH wrote:

Heh Timberline Resort Management.  Since your demise seems to be greatly exaggerated could you please update your webpage with your closing date for the 2016-2017 season.  It currently reads March 13, 2016 - unless that is the actual closing date for 2016-2017 season.  I know the Canaan Valley Resorts find this hard to believe but skiers actually make significant financial decisions regarding where to ski, western trips and long term rentals based on decision the local resorts make.  It would be nice if you could at least give us the proposed opening and closing dates (at the bare minimum).  Maybe even post on here as well so we know you are alive and well.

Thanks

I just did a random sampling of the 25+ ski resorts that DCSki covers, and not one has announced a tentative opening or closing date for the 2016-2017 winter season.  Not Whitetail.  Not Seven Springs.  Not Snowshoe Mountain.  Not Wisp.  Few have announced their mid-season event calendars for the upcoming season, partly because it’s still September.

Given the crazy variability in early and late season conditions in the Mid-Atlantic (one only needs to look at last season, when it was in the mid-70s on Christmas Eve), the trend has been away from announcing proposed opening dates.  In the 20+ years I’ve been running DCSki, rarely have I seen resorts hit their proposed opening and closing dates.  If you’ve invented some kind of magical weather crystal ball, I’m sure the local resorts would be happy to receive your advice.  There’s risk to anyone making financial decisions based on the book ends of the Mid-Atlantic ski season.  The only thing you can bank on is that resorts will open when there is enough snow and it makes business sense for them to do so, and they’ll end their season when the snow runs out or skiers stop visiting.  Those decisions can’t be made with any semblance of accuracy in September.

one year ago

I think you are going to see a bunch of not advertised tentative dates after last winter. For example snowshoe posted something on Facebook for a countdown to a 11/23 opening. (They are also selling lift tickets for 11/23-3/26, so I suspect there are your tentative dates there)

After last year, I don’t think you will see too much hype until the snow guns are on at most resorts

one year ago

rbrtlav wrote:

I think you are going to see a bunch of not advertised tentative dates after last winter. For example snowshoe posted something on Facebook for a countdown to a 11/23 opening. (They are also selling lift tickets for 11/23-3/26, so I suspect there are your tentative dates there)

After last year, I don’t think you will see too much hype until the snow guns are on at most resorts

Except CVR. Just 3 threads down from this one on the main page. They’re throwing their hat in the ring already. 

“we plan to open the ski area on December 10 and remain open until March 19, 2017.”

one year ago

I have to disagree with you. Even out west resorts that try to open early, when conditions are likely to be iffy., don’t post opening dates. Look at the Loveland and A-Basin’s websites and tell me what their opening dates are. You can’t because the dates are not there, and yet these two will likely be the first areas in North America  that open this year - in October. . When in October? They don’t know. They don’t even say October. They very nearly missed it last year.

What’s the point of posting an opening date when you really mean ” just fooling, we may or may not be open” and everyone knows it?

 

TomH wrote:

But that holds true in the northeast and the west as well.  But most of those resorts post tentative opening and closing dates.  ………  Tentative opening and closing dates of December 8 - April 1 snow conditions permittting.  Heh how hard is that!!

 

 

one year ago

TomH wrote:

Oh - by the way if I was going to run a ski resort to make some dough I think Vail would be a good place to base my model on:

http://www.vail.com/faqdetail/Mountain-Information/What-are-the-resorts-opening-and-closing-dates.axd

Now I know I can book a vacation at these places during these periods and if there is a base they will be open. Period.

 

The difference between Vail and the mid Atlantic is PREDICTABILITY. Vail KNOWS it will either have enough natural snow or cold enough temps to blow enouigh snow to be open on the dates that they say they will be open. Roundtop et all don’t have that ability. Using Vail as the model is using the wrong model.

Let’s see what  Vail resorts does when it has a hill in a place with iffy snow condtions: Ski Wilmot (Vail’s newest hill outside of Chicago). Here’s what was on Wilmot’s webpage two minutes ago:

“”Hours and Pricing Information coming this Fall.For questions, email contact@wilmotmountain.com”“

So when Vail is faced with iffy snow condtions for one of it’s hills, it does EXACTLY what mid Atlantic resorts do: it does not announce an opening date. Whaddyaknow!

 

FYI, Vail’s other two midwest (iffy snow)  resorts outside of Detroit and Minneaplos don’t have opening dates available yet, either.

 

 

one year ago

I think that you can go on past history to get it close for opening and closing.  In the past hills like t-line used to remain open thru mid April, conditions permitting.  The same with Snowshoe.  Recently, though, they have closed in late March, mainly due to the low number of paying skier visits which is walk up business instead of season pass holders.  If there was a marketing plan in place pushing late season skiing we might see a return to later closing dates.    As for opening, it’s a crap shoot.  Advertise a tentative date and all will realize why. If I were running a ski area I’d shoot for the earliest possible date to open whatever terrain I could because the public is anxious to get on snow.  Cataloochie in NC is a perfect example as they are usually the first hill open in the east and have killer snowmaking.  K-mart is next in line and notfar behind.  As a  former season pass holder, I never let it bother me as far as open/close dates even if I had a seasonal rental.  I wasn’t concerned because I knew my turns would be good whenever it happened. 

one year ago

TomH wrote:

 Suppose I want to plan a ski vacation that week and I prefer to stay local but I want to lock it down. Guess what guys - I’m not booking in the valley. I’m going to find a resort I know for sure will be open if there is snow that week.

Suppose you want to plan a ski vacation, and you make a non-refundable payment on a condo — and the resort that “you were sure was going to be open”  turns out to NOT be open. It’s cost you your non refundable payment AND your ski vaction - after all you could have gone to a place that was open, I don’t know about you, but if that were to happen to me, I would be real PO’d.

one year ago

TomH wrote:

 

Bob - I looked at Ski Wilmot and it clearly isn’t a destination resort.

A Basin and Loveland ARE destination resorts - especially early and late season, and they don’t publish opening dates because they don’t know for sure when they’re going to be able to open.No resort should publish an opening date unless it is reasonably confident that it really will be able to open on that date - at least IMO

As far as closing dates the mantra for those two HAS ALWAYS been - Loveland will close the first Sunday in May(see what snow predicability gets you), and A-Basin will close when it  runs out of snow (May, June, July — whenver)

So much for clsoing date predicability late season at A-Basin

Scott - DCSki Supporter
one year ago

Tom,

I’m still struggling a bit to understand your argument.  It is a fact of life that ski conditions in the Mid-Atlantic are unpredictable at the beginning and end of the season (or even mid-season — I’ve seen resorts temporarily close in January due to warm temperatures).  How is it reasonable to make your business decisions based on these make-believe, tentative opening/closing dates that historically don’t track with reality?  Personally, I wouldn’t book a trip now at the tail end of a season in the Mid-Atlantic because the risk would be too high.  Heck, I’d be hesitant to do it at the bookends of a season in Colorado or Utah.  I took that risk once, booking a trip to Deer Valley in December (http://www.dcski.com/articles/1160).  Should be plenty of snow then, right?  They only had a tiny fraction of their terrain open.  Conditions were much better back home!

I guess I understand that you’re trying to set your rental dates, but is this a rental property you own year-round?  If someone books early in the season and there’s no snow, do you lock them in a contract so you have no risk and they’re forced to pay?  I’m asking because I want to learn; I don’t rent out properties myself.

I have a good understanding of the business side of local ski resorts because I interact with them frequently.  This is a brutal place to run a ski resort, and the climate trends have not been favorable to our area.  Even for year-round resorts, the vast majority of income comes from a very compressed, and highly variable, ski season.  Last winter, local resorts weren’t able to get off the ground until January, missing the all-important holiday week between Christmas and New Years.  There are large daily costs associated with keeping a mountain open and staffed.  And every year, as soon as we get the first mild day in late February or early March, visit rates plummet.  The floor just drops out.  I’ve been to popular resorts like Whitetail in early March once the weather has started warming, and I’ve counted more employees than guests.  On days like that, it costs a resort far more money to stay open than the revenue it brings in.  Even if another cold wave comes in, the damage has been done — most skier’s brains switch to springtime activities and they hang up the skis and snowboards.  I get very depressed when I look at resort webcams in mid- to late-March and see plenty of snow left on the slopes after the resorts have closed up shop for the season, but I completely understand the economics of the decision they made and there’s simply no arguing with it.  Really, there isn’t.  Honestly, do you really think that resorts are making a decision to close early even while they’re still continuing to make a profit?  They want to squeeze *every* *last* *penny* of profit out of their compressed seasons.  They see the numbers; they know when the cross-over point is.

Resorts which have had a banner season may stay open later as a gesture of good will to their season passholders, but they’re doing it at a break-even point or a loss.  And in years like the past year, where they lost the entire beginning of the season, there’s simply no way they could intentionally lose money by extending their season past a profitable point.  They have little control over weather and when the season can begin, but they can control when to end the season, and that is always a business decision.  Every resort sees their own data; we don’t.

one year ago

Seriously, do we need to be told the dates?   I think we have this down by now.  Snowshoe will try to open for Thanksgiving but generally won’t make it.  Timberline doesn’t try to open until about Dec 12, give or take, basically to build base for the holidays, and then will max out between mlk and presidents and then wind down as soon as possible.  CVR will be pretty close, mabye a little later start and later close.  Wisp will do better.  Wintgergreen, in a normal year, will surprisingly open later and close later than just about anyone outside NC.   Speaking of which, Cataloochee and Sugar will open as soon as they get 72 hours of cold in November, but will thin out during the year.  If Easter is early, Cataloochee and App will try to stay open to make it.  Snowy Luau will be like March 15 and anything after that is unplanned.  Showshoe will probably close the first weekend in April and the snow will be very good.   Whitegrass will probably have one early (nov, dec) big snow and one late big snow and be sporadic but mostly open in the usual areas during the year.  Hopefully, the valley will get the regular lake storm cycles all during January and build up a big base, but if not watch out for the slednecks.  There, I just saved you a ton of time surfing web sites.  Scott you can PM me for the address to send my check.  Speaking of Scott, unlike him, I will see the deep snow, blue skies, and thin crowds after Pres day and think now it’s time to get serous about skiing this year!

Edit @TomH.  This is still south of mason dixon.  Do not make ski plans 4 weeks in advance without including plane tickets to Utah or ‘Rado.  Seriously.  

one year ago

TomH wrote:

Now if they could put snow blower on top of that pole they put in the middle of white lightening last year I will be a 100 percent happy season passholder

jeebus, that would be even more of a danger, must be why i always ski on the edges of that slope anyway.  i still miss the trees.  

one year ago

Why not add a little XC ski touring to your repetoire and free your mind from having to base all skiing plans and decisions around whether or not a big mechanical lift is running?  Like when we get dumped on this year in mid november! :)

one year ago

Looks like the can is getting kicked down the road (to March 2017):

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/WebDocket/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=459377

one year ago

ubu wrote:

Looks like the can is getting kicked down the road (to March 2017):

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/WebDocket/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=459377

March 30 has come and gone… any news here?

one year ago

Here

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/WebDocket/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=468471&NotType=%27WebDocket%27

 

one year ago

So….Timberline has to pay back like $11k / month for the foreseeable future and fix some old water meters?  That’s it i guess?

one year ago

I cannot believe that I just read most of the agreement between TL and those that were suing TL. 

I think I saw that TL had new financing and would make a single payment for the $300K+ that is owed.  Anybody know the source of the new financing and does it include enough new cash for TL to make badly needed improvements to the TL ski operation to include snowmaking and lifts?!  Yes, without a single catch up payment TL will need to pay $11K monthly for past unpaid utility bills and also must pay all current bills on time.  This would remove the source of repurposed income that essentially appears to have kept TL afloat in the recent past.  

What a goat rope!!!

Anybody know more?!

one year ago

Amazing no one ended up in prison; improperly taking funds out of a utility is pretty serious business. Don’t expect any major changes, Hope for a 200 inch snow year; it is what has bailed them out in the past.

 This would remove the source of repurposed income that essentially appears to have kept TL afloat in the recent past.  

one year ago

CVPSD was alarmed when it reviewed the Staff report, showing that revenue was coming to TFSU from its customers, but not being paid to CVPSD and instead, going out to affiliates of TFSU. Mr. Metzger believes the record showed approximately $368,000 being transferred from TFSU to its affiliates. Additionally, the affiliates were not paying TFSU for utility services and owed TFSU approximately $104,000. (Tr. 73). 

one year ago

Reviewing TFSU banking records, Mr. Herz acknowledged that on the January 30 statement from 2015, that there was an internet transfer from TFSU’s business checking on January 30 in the amount of $lS,000 that was transferred to an account of TFSRM. (Tr. 121). On March 26,2016, check number 7495 was drawn on a TFSU account payable in the amount of $40,000 to TFSRM. (Tr. 122). Mr. Herz could not explain the particulars of the $40,000 transfer. (Tr. 122). Mr. Herz could not explain the transfer of money memorialized by check number 7514 dated August 27,201 5 , drawn on a TFSU account payable to TFSRM in the amount of $20,000. (Tr. 123). Mr. Herz could not explain the transfer made via check 7535 on TFSU’s account dated May 15, 2015, payable to TFSRM in the amount of $30,000. Mr. Herz could not explain the internet transfer of $10,000 from a TFSU account to a TFSRM account made on June 26, 2015. (Tr. 123). He also could not explain the internet transfer made on July 31, 2015, o f $30,000 from TFSU to TFSRM. (Tr. 124). He was also unable to explain the transfer of $20,000 on August 21,2015, from TFSU to TFSRM, nor was he able to explain the internet transfer dated August 26, 2015, in the amount of $5,000 from TFSU to TFSRM. (Tr. 124, 125). Also unexplained was the September 18, 2015, internet transfer of $10,000 from TFSU to TFSRM. (Tr. 125). Mr. Herz could not explain the $5,000 internet transfer from TFSU to TFSRM made on December 20,2015, nor could the December 11,2015, internet transfcr from TFSU to TFSRM in the amount of $20,000 be explained. (Tr. 126, 127). Mr. Herz had no explanation for the December 21, 2015, internet transfer from TFSU to TFSRM in the amount of $5,000 or the second transfer on the same date in an additional amount of $10,000. The February 16, 2016, $20,000transferfromtheutilitytoTFSRMalsoremainedunexplained. (Tr.127). 

Mr. Herz believes that one would have to hire a forensic accountant to examine the flow of cash from TFSU to TFSRM if one wanted to identify the specific use of proceeds of each of the transfers. (Tr. 139). Mr. Herz is open to discussing how assurances could be made to CVPSD and the Commission that funds would not be improperly transferred from TFSU to TFSRM in the future. (Tr. 140). Mr. Herz is working on getting financing to refinance the resort. (Tr. 141). Mr. Herz assured CVPSD that if he runs into additional problems in paying its bills, he will contact CVPSD and try to talk about how the issue can be resolved. (Tr. 141). 

one year ago

CVPSD =  Canaan Valley Public Service District, a public utility

TFSU = Timberline Four Seasons Utilities

TFSRM = Timberline Four Seasons Resort Management, Inc.

Scott - DCSki Supporter
one year ago

As a reminder, DCSki’s Rules of Conduct state that “posting negative comments about an individual is unacceptable.”  (I just removed a post that violated this rule.)

one year ago

Using a utility payment escrow as a slush fund is pretty shocking.  Gotta wonder if they’ve been keeping up with their liability and property insurance as well..

one month ago

crgildart wrote:

Using a utility payment escrow as a slush fund is pretty shocking.  Gotta wonder if they’ve been keeping up with their liability and property insurance as well..

 

13 days ago

Wanted to give this thread a bump to see if anyone knows whats going on?  Drove by timberline today, a Saturday. Not a sign of life…the doors are locked up and the 4 season resort is closed like a ghost town, busted up equipment in the parking lot, furniture and trash scattered across the decks, scabbed together grooming machines with shattered windows and “sell tline” stickers on them, tarps covering some of the buildings to keep weather out, etc. Reports are the power is still cut off. The company who was using their horse stables has moved out. Looked on their facebook and no mention of anything going on except for some weird water testing post and a strange job posting. The website was last updated months ago. I can’t imagine ski lift and other critical infrastructure maintenance and inspections work wouldn’t have had to start by now if they plan on getting that place back in any kind of working condition for ski season. Are they going to finally sell tline or just going to let the place completely waste away or are they seriously planning on trying to half ass open for the winter like last year? .

12 days ago

bonefish wrote:

Wanted to give this thread a bump to see if anyone knows whats going on?  Drove by timberline today, a Saturday. Not a sign of life…the doors are locked up and the 4 season resort is closed like a ghost town, busted up equipment in the parking lot, furniture and trash scattered across the decks, scabbed together grooming machines with shattered windows and “sell tline” stickers on them, tarps covering some of the buildings to keep weather out, etc. Reports are the power is still cut off. The company who was using their horse stables has moved out. Looked on their facebook and no mention of anything going on except for some weird water testing post and a strange job posting. The website was last updated months ago. I can’t imagine ski lift and other critical infrastructure maintenance and inspections work wouldn’t have had to start by now if they plan on getting that place back in any kind of working condition for ski season. Are they going to finally sell tline or just going to let the place completely waste away or are they seriously planning on trying to half ass open for the winter like last year? .

Wow, the vandalism seems pretty lame.  Talk about making things worse for your cause.. whoever did that isn’t making the business more attractive to potential suitors.  As for the rest of the “to do” list, how are competitors like Canan doing with regard to that critical path towards the 18-19 season?  Is their golf course open and busy?  Serious question.. I’m not up in that area so I have no idea..

12 days ago

I don’t think it’s vandalism. Just looks like it did the day they closed for ski season, run down and patched together…looks like as soon as the lifts closed everyone just dropped everything where they were standing and abandoned the resort. Canaan  seems to be working on maintenance for ski season and summer activities at both state parks are getting good use when I’ve been there. The businesses in Davis and Thomas seem to be booming. Local Canaan Valley realtors are reporting record summer  numbers. Timberline appears to be the only square peg. 

12 days ago

bonefish wrote:

I don’t think it’s vandalism. Just looks like it did the day they closed for ski season, run down and patched together…looks like as soon as the lifts closed everyone just dropped everything where they were standing and abandoned the resort. Canaan  seems to be working on maintenance for ski season and summer activities at both state parks are getting good use when I’ve been there. The businesses in Davis and Thomas seem to be booming. Local Canaan Valley realtors are reporting record summer  numbers. Timberline appears to be the only square peg. 



grooming machines with shattered windows and “sell tline” stickers on them,

This isn’t vandalsim?  So the owners did that?? 

12 days ago

I could be wrong but I thought I saw the shattered glass was there all last ski season to. I just assumed it happened when they were grooming and just never got fixed. But you could be correct.

12 days ago

If smoeone would just buy Timberline and invest some money in upgrades to lifts, snowmaking and the lodge it could be one of the best resorts in mid-Atlantic.   Great location in Canaan Valley, lots of natural snow (for the mid-Atlantic), some of the best natural terrain, so many housing options for groups/families that are not very expensive, fairly accessible to DC, Baltimore, Richmond, etc. and not overrun with weekend day trippers as many resorts are.   We last went there two and a half years ago in late February when it snowed about a foot, but it was right after the main lift had broken so they only had one lift open and only about half the mountain (and that was far better than the situation from last year) and was one of our biggest disappointments as we had a big family group together for the first time when everyone could ski.   We ended up skiing jsut 1/2 day at Timberline and the rest of the weekend at Canaan Valley.     Just hope that someone or some company will jump in soon and save Timberline from this slow path of destruction it has been on.  

12 days ago

mdr227 wrote:

If smoeone would just buy Timberline and invest some money in upgrades to lifts, snowmaking and the lodge it could be one of the best resorts in mid-Atlantic.   Great location in Canaan Valley, lots of natural snow (for the mid-Atlantic), some of the best natural terrain, so many housing options for groups/families that are not very expensive, fairly accessible to DC, Baltimore, Richmond, etc. and not overrun with weekend day trippers as many resorts are.  

Ahh but the uncertainty with regard to infrastructure and snow making is a big reason why it’s hardly ever booked solid and thus available at such bargain rates, especially with regard to slopeside housing.  New lifts and state of the art snow making and suddenly all those will be in much higher demand and TL4s becomes Wintergreen West…. only selling passes that are blacked out every weekend between December and March along with all holidays and Christmas to New Years weekdays.  You can bet that would happen if everything there was top notch as it could be..

12 days ago

bonefish wrote:

I could be wrong but I thought I saw the shattered glass was there all last ski season to. I just assumed it happened when they were grooming and just never got fixed. But you could be correct.

Yeah, I’m sure the resort owners intentionally damaged their own equipment. I looked at their Facebook page and website and it didn’t look unusual to me for the type of operation they have during summer months. . Is the resort having financial problems? Obviously. Could it be run a little better? You bet. Will they sell? Who knows. Will they get some new investors or find a line of credit? Hopefully. I don’t think we need to invent negative stuff since we have real negative stuff. 

12 days ago

no invention…just observations driving through parking lot and knocking on the door

12 days ago

crgildart wrote:

mdr227 wrote:

If smoeone would just buy Timberline and invest some money in upgrades to lifts, snowmaking and the lodge it could be one of the best resorts in mid-Atlantic.   Great location in Canaan Valley, lots of natural snow (for the mid-Atlantic), some of the best natural terrain, so many housing options for groups/families that are not very expensive, fairly accessible to DC, Baltimore, Richmond, etc. and not overrun with weekend day trippers as many resorts are.  

Ahh but the uncertainty with regard to infrastructure and snow making is a big reason why it’s hardly ever booked solid and thus available at such bargain rates, especially with regard to slopeside housing.  New lifts and state of the art snow making and suddenly all those will be in much higher demand and TL4s becomes Wintergreen West…. only selling passes that are blacked out every weekend between December and March along with all holidays and Christmas to New Years weekdays.  You can bet that would happen if everything there was top notch as it could be..

Right now I would glady pay a little more to have a more reliable place to visit.  You know its not good when the cross country place is more reliable.  It doesn’t sound like anyone here really knows what is going on, so we have to sit and wait.  And I can tell you TL will never be Wintergreen West as Charlottesville and Richmond are just too far away.  [Little Charlottesville which is now on the list of top 10 places for income disparity]

 

11 days ago

For what it is worth, a swath of grass was recently mowed around the lodge below Silver Queen. That swath includes the area in front of the Northwoods B development—where the defunct vollyball area used to be. I have been up to Timberline three times this summer. Asside from rumors and visible issues (unmowed grass and lack of elecrtricity in the lodge) and the utilities issue, no one knows what’s going on or why. House rentals on the mountain seem strong and there’s been lot of activity in Davis. Hiking, mountain biking, and golfing continues. I have one more year left on an awesome pass. Can’t wait to ski my favorite small mountain in the USA.

11 days ago

It doesn’t sound like anyone here really knows what is going on, so we have to sit and wait

I can tell you what will happen.  Some mysterious postings about the season will happen in Novemeber on their facebook page.  They will open between Christmas and New Years with service to the mid station.  Around Presidents days they will finally have more than 50% of the mountain open.  At this point they will stop making snow.  Two weeks later the mountain will be open to the midstation.  They will close for all but the weekend while the big March snows start piling up.  They will close for the year approximately 2-4 weeks before they should because they have to save snow for the snow mobiles, and thye had less patronage than White Grass.

After that people here will speculate.  They will be sued for messing up.  They will remove all negative social media posts.  Three people here will continue to defend Fred and Company.  I will continue to go to Snowshoe because I at least know they try. 

It’s been happening like this every year for at least the last 5.  I don’t see why this year would be different.

11 days ago

Did a driveby at TL myself just recently and it was depressing…then drove up to Wisp and enjoyed some on Mtn fun…Mtn bikers..water fun on top of the Mtn..kids and adults spending money and having fun..Coaster was a blast!….14 bucks a run….theres gold in them hills!!…comon…get it together!!

11 days ago

AndyGene wrote:

It doesn’t sound like anyone here really knows what is going on, so we have to sit and wait

It’s been happening like this every year for at least the last 5.  I don’t see why this year would be different.

So you’re an optimist.

11 days ago

snowsmith wrote:

bonefish wrote:

I could be wrong but I thought I saw the shattered glass was there all last ski season to. I just assumed it happened when they were grooming and just never got fixed. But you could be correct.

Yeah, I’m sure the resort owners intentionally damaged their own equipment. I looked at their Facebook page and website and it didn’t look unusual to me for the type of operation they have during summer months. . Is the resort having financial problems? Obviously. Could it be run a little better? You bet. Will they sell? Who knows. Will they get some new investors or find a line of credit? Hopefully. I don’t think we need to invent negative stuff since we have real negative stuff. 

Speaking factually, this summer is clearly VERY different than recent past summers. Here is a probably incomplete list of summer activities that Timberline had in just the past three years, none of which are happening this year:

Mountain biking

Mountain bike races

Chairlift rides

Bicycle shop

Pub operation

Food and beverage service

Live music

Beer and music festival

Now maybe none of these were ever big moneymakers for Timberline, but pretty much every other resort in the region has ample summer activities and believes it is in their business interest to do so.  Wisp, Snowshoe, Wintergreen, Massanutten, Bryce, etc etc.  The fact that Timberline can’t even manage to do anything this summer has got to mean something.  And again, these are facts not speculation.

11 days ago

There is an updated document submitted by the CVPSD to the WV Public Service Commission in the case titled “Staff’s Petition to the Commission to Order a General Investigation of Timberline Four Seasons Utilities, Inc”

http://www.psc.state.wv.us/scripts/WebDocket/ViewDocument.cfm?CaseActivityID=501285&NotType=%27WebDocket%27

Executive summary - Timberline Utilities paid CVPSD for sewer service through the June 1st 2018 bill at $27,900/month.  The July 1 bill was paid with a check without money in the bank, and remains unpaid.

“On Tuesday, July 3 1,201 8, [… TFSU … ] delivered a check from TFSU …drawn on Grant Coun~ Bank and payable to CVPSD in the amount of $27,917.50 to … operator for CVPSD, as the payment for the July 1,2018, bill. However, [TFSU] instructed … not to deposit the check until August 1,2018, when funds would be available in the TFSUI account.  …  On August 3,2018, … , Board Member for CVPSD, again checked with &e Grant County Bank to see if sufficient funds were in the account of TFSUI to honor the check, and again the teller advised that there were insu~ci~nt finds to honor the check. Hence, the regular monthly bill for July, 201 8, has not been paid and the same is still delinquent as of the date of this pleading. ” (names redacted)

10 days ago

pagamony wrote:

crgildart wrote:

mdr227 wrote:

If smoeone would just buy Timberline and invest some money in upgrades to lifts, snowmaking and the lodge it could be one of the best resorts in mid-Atlantic.   Great location in Canaan Valley, lots of natural snow (for the mid-Atlantic), some of the best natural terrain, so many housing options for groups/families that are not very expensive, fairly accessible to DC, Baltimore, Richmond, etc. and not overrun with weekend day trippers as many resorts are.  

Ahh but the uncertainty with regard to infrastructure and snow making is a big reason why it’s hardly ever booked solid and thus available at such bargain rates, especially with regard to slopeside housing.  New lifts and state of the art snow making and suddenly all those will be in much higher demand and TL4s becomes Wintergreen West…. only selling passes that are blacked out every weekend between December and March along with all holidays and Christmas to New Years weekdays.  You can bet that would happen if everything there was top notch as it could be..

Right now I would glady pay a little more to have a more reliable place to visit.  You know its not good when the cross country place is more reliable.  It doesn’t sound like anyone here really knows what is going on, so we have to sit and wait.  And I can tell you TL will never be Wintergreen West as Charlottesville and Richmond are just too far away.  [Little Charlottesville which is now on the list of top 10 places for income disparity]

 

OK maybe not “Wintergreen West”  How about “Snowshoe North??”  Snowshoe is every bit as isolated geographically, or was before they upped their game with regard to infrastructure..

2 days ago

I’m sure glad I bought an Ikon Pass for this coming season. Did you know it includes unlimited, no blackout skiing at Snowshoe?

2 days ago

why was my post deleted?

Scott - DCSki Supporter
2 days ago

Your post included unsubstantiated accusations as well as profanity, which is in violation of DCSki’s Terms of Use.  I’ve repeatedly advised readers that DCSki is not the forum to spread these kinds of unverifiable rumors, and I no longer have patience for it.

2 days ago

I appreciate your work on this site, but BS! I used the word “ass” as in “half-ass”. Hardly profanity. I didn’t make any accusations. They were indeed facts. No rumors. Read the PSC documents or take a trip to the resort yourself. This is a relevant ski topic with the winter approaching. 

Scott - DCSki Supporter
2 days ago

Here’s the deal.  DCSki is my house.  You’re a guest in my house.  I get to set the house rules: if I ask guests to please take their shoes off when they enter my house, it’s a common courtesy to do so.  You don’t have to visit my house and you don’t have to like my rules.  But if you do visit, and I ask you to please take your shoes off, it’s not very polite to then yell at me and say you should be able to wear shoes in my house, which is essentially what your reply is saying.

I have a long list of rumors that people have anonymously shared with me that they swore up and down were true, and when I spent my time chasing down the facts, I found they were anywhere from mildly to wildly inaccurate.  It’s not how I want to spend my time.  DCSki is a place for skiers and snowboarders to share their passion and tips for our favorite sport, and sure, to provide constructive feedback to local resorts when warranted.  Anyone can start their own web site and post what they like.  But here, if I say a post crossed a line, I’d ask that people respect that.

2 days ago

jimmy wrote:

I’m sure glad I bought an Ikon Pass for this coming season. Did you know it includes unlimited, no blackout skiing at Snowshoe?

Helps to be in the middle of nowhere. Try to find a place less than 100 miles from a major east coast metro area without blackout dates in their pass… or that takes any multi state multi resort pass..

yesterday

Scott wrote:

Here’s the deal.  DCSki is my house.  You’re a guest in my house.  I get to set the house rules: if I ask guests to please take their shoes off when they enter my house, it’s a common courtesy to do so.  You don’t have to visit my house and you don’t have to like my rules.  But if you do visit, and I ask you to please take your shoes off, it’s not very polite to then yell at me and say you should be able to wear shoes in my house, which is essentially what your reply is saying.

MAGA…Build that wall!….
yesterday

I was hoping for something more like a “community” with “community standards” than “Scott’s House” with “Scott’s Rules”.  OK..

Scott - DCSki Supporter
yesterday

crgildart wrote:

I was hoping for something more like a “community” with “community standards” than “Scott’s House” with “Scott’s Rules”.  OK..

Apparently the community standards haven’t been clear enough, so I decided to try an analogy.  Seriously, if a few of you are going to continue being snarky and rude, please find another venue.  I’m not pouring my time and money into this site to be disrespected.  I have enough stress in my life already right now; I certainly don’t need DCSki causing more stress.

23 hours ago

Scott, I think some folks don’t get that you could be held accountable for some of the more scandalous stuff. But look at the bright side, Mountain Masher has left us and no one is preaching pro or anti climate change rants.🤡

15 hours ago

I honestly didn’t think the word “half-@$$” as in “could be a half-@$$ opening” was profanity. I wasn’t even wearing shoes when I wrote that post….I even had on clean socks(that is a joke to lighten the mood not intended as snarky or rude). Now understood what is considered profanity. Have the owners of timberline contacted dc ski’s administrators about timberline being discussed on this forum? I assume that posting factual events as they unfold that are relevant to the title of this thread is not considered wearing ski boots on the oriental carpets?

5 hours ago

Scott wrote:

crgildart wrote:

I was hoping for something more like a “community” with “community standards” than “Scott’s House” with “Scott’s Rules”.  OK..

Apparently the community standards haven’t been clear enough, so I decided to try an analogy.  Seriously, if a few of you are going to continue being snarky and rude, please find another venue.  I’m not pouring my time and money into this site to be disrespected.  I have enough stress in my life already right now; I certainly don’t need DCSki causing more stress.

I don’t have a problem with any of the standards or expectations… although the goal posts do seem to move week to week.  i get it.  I’m an admin of a college football fan group with over 30K members, almost half of them active.  Talk about trash pick ups and ban hammers hahaha.. I’m also a moderator on some smaller forums which, like this, used to be a lot more active but still have a few core members hanging around.. some don’t always get along.

I suggest you try to take a step back, relax a little and let bygones be bygones from time to time.  If the meager level of debate and opinion posts are stressing you out that much perhaps pull the plug because it shouldn’t..

5 hours ago

Scott

I think you do a great job herding the snocats, civil discourse is hard to find online. some are not happy without knocking something. me I just want to ski Doc’s with LHC

Denis - DCSki Supporter
5 hours ago

If the meager level of debate and opinion posts are stressing you out that much perhaps pull the plug because it shouldn’t..

Or, perhaps pull a topic when it gets a little too lively.

And, thanks Scott, for what you do.

 

Scott - DCSki Supporter
3 hours ago

Denis wrote:

If the meager level of debate and opinion posts are stressing you out that much perhaps pull the plug because it shouldn’t..

Or, perhaps pull a topic when it gets a little too lively.

And, thanks Scott, for what you do.

Thanks.  In the instances where I intervene (which is not often — how often do you see me chime in here?), I am taking action to protect posters from charges of slander.  Unfortunately, this has several side effects: (a) even though I’m protecting the person who posted the statement (who often doesn’t understand what libel is, and mistakenly thinks they’re anonymous and can post whatever they want without recourse), they get upset with me; (b) I can’t explain the problematic statement to the rest of the community because that would require repeating it; (c) it looks like I have thin skin, am over-reacting, or moving goal posts when, in fact, I’m taking reasonable and appropriate action to ensure that potentially inaccurate information is not spread through this forum.

People come to the site with varying agendas, and rumors that might be rooted in truth tend to snowball and be exagerrated to serve one’s own interests.  As one example, a few years ago someone reported that a particular resort had not paid their state taxes.  I spent my own time verifying with the state that the resort was completely up to date on their tax payments; the person reporting that was completely inaccurate.  It doesn’t mean that the resort wasn’t having financial challenges, but with those kinds of accusations, you can’t just make stuff up, or pass along things “you’ve heard.”  That type of statement was fairly easy to verify (it was either true, or not true), but many of these statements are in a gray area where it’s hard to prove or disprove them.  And when a statement is potentially damaging, that increases the importance of being accurate.

To be clear, I’ve never been concerned with people sharing opinions about topics DCSki covers, even if those opinions are harsh.  Civil debate is what makes things interesting!  But there is a big — if sometimes subtle — difference between sharing a negative opinion and making a potentially slanderous statement.  I have a responsibility to intervene when a statement appears to cross that line, even if the poster meant no harm.  It’s never a decision that is made lightly.

Perhaps the best thing is for the community to simply avoid discussing a particular resort, at least until any drama recedes into the distance.  That’s an extreme measure and isn’t my first choice, but this seems to be a perpetual problem and I’ve grown tired of having to spend time on it — that’s time I don’t have to contribute to other parts of the site.

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