With the purchase of Snowtime by Peak Resorts, I’m sure many of us are curious (worried) about potential and significant cost increases in the future if we’d still like to just get season passes to our local resorts.
The Peak Pass (currently running for $1029 for adults and $799 for kids to age 17) is more pricey than the Ikon Base Pass (currently running $749 for adults/$449 ages 5-12/$629 ages 13-17) which gives you similar (if not more) access in the NE with the added benefit of options in the West and Canada (36 destinations total). I list Ikon here over the similar Epic Pass, as Ikon includes unlimited skiing at Snowshoe Mountain, WV.
Currently, for a family of four, the cost for season passes at Liberty/Roundtop/Whitetail is $1576 ($469 for the first pass, $369 each for the 3 additional passes).
The early purchase of the comparable Peak Pass “Explorer” was $829 for each adult over the age of 30, $599 for each child aged 7-17. So the cost for a family of four with 2 kids in that age range would total $2856””a $1280/80% cost increase. If you purchase the Peak Pass now, it’s $1029 per adult, $799 per child. For a family of four, that’s $3656 (yowzer).
The concern for my family is that locally, we ski Whitetail almost exclusively each season, with a 5 day trip out West we try to plan. The added benefit of NE skiing under the Peak Pass just isn’t that valuable to us. I’d rather hop on a plane to CO/UT than fly to VT/NH (or avoid driving 10 hours). The Peak Pass option for kids is not much of a discount. And the odd Peak Pass “Drifter” is highly discounted for those aged 18-29 (I get a college-aged discount, but to age 29?). Why not give families with kids a similar break?
Anyhow, here’s me hoping that Peak Resorts keeps the dedicated/local Liberty/Roundtop/Whitetail Season Passes available at a similar price point in coming years, so that we don’t have to decide whether to purchase Peak Passes at an 80% cost increase for other resorts we likely won’t ski. Or at least allow a stand-alone season pass option at Liberty or Roundtop or Whitetail.
Whitetail/Liberty/Roundtop Family Pass: $469 First Skier/$369 each additional (Through October 31, then $579 first skier/$479 each additional):
http://skiwhitetail.com/2018-2019-season-pass
Peak Pass Explorer Early Season price: $829 Adult/$599 Children if Purchased Early ($1029 Adult/$799 Child if purchased currently as of the date of this post):
https://www.peakpass.com/?_ga=2.228362909.1828859465.1540481349-1573992940.1540481349
Ikon Base Pass $749/$449 5-12/$629 13-17 ($699 per adult with similar discounts for children if you bought early season). Unlimited skiing at Snowshoe, WV:
Not to take away from your point about costs, which is well-taken, but it doesn't take 14 hours to drive to Vermont. Maryland suburbs to Magic is under 8 hours, and Mad River is 9 hours. Those are nonstop times, though, which is hard to do with smaller kids, and southern Vermont rolls up the sidewalks and locks the doors before 9 pm.
Duly noted. I’ll amend to 10 as I’m in VA.
So even if they do force Snowtime to the Peak Pass it may not be that bad.
http://ir.peakresorts.com/File/Index?KeyFile=392491250
Perhaps my move to Incline Village was the equivalent of "downsizing" ski-wise but then again i just purchased my full-time season pass to Diamond Peak (the mom-and-pop ski resort I live across from) and it is $319.00 a person with no blackout dates and 4 free tickets each to Homewood, one of the places Connie Lawn so loved (and I recommend as a "best bang for the buck" - ahem no intended reference to Bunny Ranch).
I guess Lib/Rt/Wt are the only game n town but still the price is pretty good considering Deer Valley passes are now $2,365 per person and Epic Local in Tahoe is still an amazingly low $709 . Yes Lib/Rt/Wt are small but you are plugging into a pretty good mid-Atlantic system.iI hope sometime i can ski them again they always made me feel good.
Oh i forgot! We are going to Truckee to see a showing of the Blizzard Of Ahhhs (host by Robbie Huntoon !!) and Greg Stump will be there for the after-party/ Q/A !!! What questions do you think I should ask?!?!??! I always loved P-Tex, Lies and Duct Tape ...
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/blizzard-of-aahhhs-30th-anniversary-truckee-tickets-50710403181
E-
Crush wrote:
Perhaps my move to Incline Village was the equivalent of "downsizing" ski-wise but then again i just purchased my full-time season pass to Diamond Peak (the mom-and-pop ski resort I live across from) and it is $319.00 a person with no blackout dates and 4 free tickets each to Homewood, one of the places Connie Lawn so loved (and I recommend as a "best bang for the buck" - ahem no intended reference to Bunny Ranch).
I guess Lib/Rt/Wt are the only game n town but still the price is pretty good considering Deer Valley passes are now $2,365 per person and Epic Local in Tahoe is still an amazingly low $709 . Yes Lib/Rt/Wt are small but you are plugging into a pretty good mid-Atlantic system.iI hope sometime i can ski them again they always made me feel good.
Oh i forgot! We are going to Truckee to see a showing of the Blizzard Of Ahhhs (host by Robbie Huntoon !!) and Greg Stump will be there for the after-party/ Q/A !!! What questions do you think I should ask?!?!??! I always loved P-Tex, Lies and Duct Tape ...
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/blizzard-of-aahhhs-30th-anniversary-truckee-tickets-50710403181
E-
Who lived life larger, Harkin Banks or Glen Plake?
J-
fishnski wrote:
"Who lived life larger, Harkin Banks or Glen Plake?"..... They are lightweights compared to the great DC Skier...JOHNL..!!!....Thx for all your Quality posts over the years Budro....keep on gettin it!
I am not in the same league as the legendary Andy whose likeness stands at the deepest part of MPC! Those were some good times brudda.
Good question. I've had a Snowtime season's pass or discount card for the past decade. Always saved money on the deal, and I continue to admire the way Snowtime ran their 3 resorts.
I took good advantage of the Mountains of Distinction opportunities that provided a half-price weekday ticket at resorts including Seven Springs, Wintergreen and places further afield such as Wachusett and Okemo. This was a benefit for Snowtime passholders ... the operative word being "was," unfortunately.
This year, for the first time, I bought the Snowtime senior midweek pass for, I think $199. Nice deal!
I think I'm going to lose out financially in at least two different ways because of the sale of the Snowtme resorts to Peak. About a week ago, I received a phone call from Whitetail asking me if I'd like to upgrade to the Peak Resorts pass. The price was appealing, but I don't see much (if any) travel to the Northeast this season. I asked if the Mountains of Distinction benefit - that was advertised when I bought the Snowtime 2018-19 pass in March 2018 - would be in effect this season. The answer was no.
Does Peak Resorts offer a senior pass? I don't see one advertised. Will they in 2019-20? Seems unlikely.
Will Peak Resorts offer a separate pass for the Snowtime resorts in 2019-20? At a price comparable to 2018-19 and previous years? We don't know yet.
So, color me disappointed, and skeptical.
Woody
Happened to catch Scott's article about Liberty from Oct. 19. He noted the midweek pass for 65+ for $199 that's good at Liberty, Whitetail, and Roundtop, with the option to upgrade to a Peak Pass for another $129. The deadline at early season rates is Oct. 31, 2018.
http://www.dcski.com/articles/1558
Crush wrote:
Perhaps my move to Incline Village was the equivalent of "downsizing" ski-wise but then again i just purchased my full-time season pass to Diamond Peak (the mom-and-pop ski resort I live across from) and it is $319.00 a person with no blackout dates and 4 free tickets each to Homewood, one of the places Connie Lawn so loved (and I recommend as a "best bang for the buck" - ahem no intended reference to Bunny Ranch).
I guess Lib/Rt/Wt are the only game n town but still the price is pretty good considering Deer Valley passes are now $2,365 per person and Epic Local in Tahoe is still an amazingly low $709 . Yes Lib/Rt/Wt are small but you are plugging into a pretty good mid-Atlantic system.iI hope sometime i can ski them again they always made me feel good.
Oh i forgot! We are going to Truckee to see a showing of the Blizzard Of Ahhhs (host by Robbie Huntoon !!) and Greg Stump will be there for the after-party/ Q/A !!! What questions do you think I should ask?!?!??! I always loved P-Tex, Lies and Duct Tape ...
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/blizzard-of-aahhhs-30th-anniversary-truckee-tickets-50710403181
E-
Just curious - how does Diamond Peak compare to Homewood? Last time I was in Tahoe, I only had 1 day to ski and I picked Homewood. I had a blast - caught it on a great snow day and there were no lines. Love the smaller/off-the-beaten-path type of resort.
For people who wonder what value a Peak pass might have in the future, Mt Snow will be open for the 4th weekend in a row Nov. 17-18. Hunter is opening this weekend. Have been years when Hunter even stayed open Mon & Tue of Thanksgiving week.
Of course right now the Catskills are getting pounded with wet snow. Roads and airports in the NYC metro area are a mess. Blizzard level snow, meaning 2+ inches per hour.
I took the 3+ hour drive to Big Boulder today. Looks like they had 10-12" snow on Thursday on top of the man made snow, it was a great surface for November 18th. The resort had a simular vibe to Roundtop, lifts seemed older but well maintained, had a really fun day and would very much consider going back and doing both Jack Frost and a fully open Big Boulder. Its likely the only non-snowtime peak resort you can make a long day trip, or get 2 days on the snow with one night in a hotel.
With the Epic pass sales ending on Nov. 18, Peak is having a sale that goes until Dec. 17, 2018.
DRIFTER PASS now at sale price again for $379 using Promo Code BSMUDA (*Promo ends 12/17/18)
$50 Off Explorer, Ranger, Traveler using Promo Code BSMUDA (*Promo ends 12/17/18)
I'm really getting tired of them pimping that Drifter pass. It's like the only pass they push anymore.
Sure it's a great deal, but it's a very niche product, and reminds people that they're bilking the older crowd.
Superguy wrote:
Sure it’s a great deal, but it’s a very niche product, and reminds people that they’re bilking the older crowd.
I take any comment about the expense of skiing to heart, because I became an instructor because it was the only way I could support my habit and keep my family on skis. Nonetheless, I beg to differ with the sentiment that Peak is "bilking" the older crowd. Take a look around the lodge or the lift line next time you go skiing and see how much grey or greying hair you see. Peak is pushing the product because the customer base is literally dying off and if younger people don't start skiing and riding on a regular basis, Peak will be one of the first companies to die. This is a huge problem for the industry and one of the reasons why lift ticket prices are transitioning from outrageous to truly obscene. The older crowd isn't being bilked, they are paying more because they are the ONLY crowd.
Irv Naylor, who founded Roundtop and grew Snowtime until it owned Roundtop, Whitetail, Liberty and Windham, is said to have thought long and hard about selling to Peak and whether the new owners would take care of his mountains and customers. Let's see how it turns out.
Otto wrote:
Superguy wrote:
Sure it’s a great deal, but it’s a very niche product, and reminds people that they’re bilking the older crowd.
I take any comment about the expense of skiing to heart, because I became an instructor because it was the only way I could support my habit and keep my family on skis. Nonetheless, I beg to differ with the sentiment that Peak is "bilking" the older crowd. Take a look around the lodge or the lift line next time you go skiing and see how much grey or greying hair you see. Peak is pushing the product because the customer base is literally dying off and if younger people don't start skiing and riding on a regular basis, Peak will be one of the first companies to die. This is a huge problem for the industry and one of the reasons why lift ticket prices are transitioning from outrageous to truly obscene. The older crowd isn't being bilked, they are paying more because they are the ONLY crowd.
Irv Naylor, who founded Roundtop and grew Snowtime until it owned Roundtop, Whitetail, Liberty and Windham, is said to have thought long and hard about selling to Peak and whether the new owners would take care of his mountains and customers. Let's see how it turns out.
Apparently, my session timed out and I lost my last reply.
At any rate, the OP already ran the numbers at the top. The Peak Pass is really only a good deal if you buy early - AND if you'll use the perks at other resorts.
There's a high penalty for buying late. The unlimited pass has already gone up $400 since the initial early season discount, and will continue to go up more.
As I said, there is no good deals for the older crowd. The older crowd - especially the 30 and 40 somethings - are likely to have kids. If anything, the ski resorts want to get the parents getting these kids hooked while young so they can make skiing a lifelong passion. It's mom and dad who are going to buying multiple passes for the family.
The Drifter option for the 18-29 is great for keeping those who started while young skiing while they're no longer on their folks' money. That way they don't fall out of the customer base. I can understand offering a lower price to that group - I don't have an issue for that. What I have an issue with is that they're marketing the pass as if the rest are going to be that low. Surprise - the "normal" pass for everyone else costs $600 more! How is that not a bilking?
Skiing already has a high price of entry to even try, and it's only gotten worse. And that problem is the industry's own making by continuously jacking up the price. Less people come out with a higher price? Well, ya gotta make up that loss, so charge even more. Rinse and repeate.
Even with my fellow middle aged friends, most look at the prices and decide to not even try. No one wants to drop a C-note and half to fall over the hill the first time out. Even if they do like it and want to come back out - it's still $100 a pop at least by the time you have ticket and rental.
When I was a teen 25 years ago, I could work a night at my $4.25/hr job and be able to afford to have a night of skiing at the end of the week. Not now. If my kid wants to ski, he needs dear old dad's help.
Peak has already shown that they go for a "one size fits all" type of model when it comes to their passes. ST passes worked great for me as I'm not likely to go to New England for any sort of ski trip. My wife doesn't ski, so at best, I may get a day here and there tied to a business trip (but more likely, not). With what Peak's done at Jack Frost and Big Boulder, I'm not going to have an option for a local pass next year, unless they do a Peak PA pass or something like that. There likely won't be a night pass, or a night club card. I doubt advantage cards will stick around.
Even with the Peak option on the existing ST passes - it still ended up being more expensive than the original Peak pass. IF you bought your pass at the end of last season - like I did - you're looking at $199 to add the Peak option, putting the ST version of the Peak Unlimited option at $679 - $50 more expensive than buying a Peak pass early on. So, ST pass holders that wanted the Peak option were bilked for an additional $50.
The college kid will still have their $400 pass - a savings over the current ST pass and get more. Good for them! Meanwhile, I'll be charged at least $150 more for options I likely won't use - whether I like it or not. That's $150 bilked out of my pocket. No family discount should I want to buy a pass for my son next year - so that's another $100 bilked.
So yes, I stand by my statement that the older crowd is getting bilked. We're the ones with the money. However, you can only screw over a customer so much before the money runs out. With ever increasing prices, there comes a point where people say enough's enough and leave.
If the industry wants to fix that problem, they need to break the cycle they themselves created.
Liberty has been advertising some nice cyber monday deals - $55 learn to ski package, $99 for 3 8-hour lift tickets, or $99 for a 3-visit learn to ski package good at any peak resort.
Peak Resorts did some restructuring of the senior management team recently. All three Boyd sons are actively involved at a VP level at this point. Jason in the Mid-Atlantic, Josh in the midwest, and Jesse as VP of Operations overall.
https://www.peakresorts.com/news-updates/page-1260/
MID-ATLANTIC REGION:
