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Timberline activity?
42 posts from 18 users
Updated 18 hours ago
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18 days ago

Just curious, if anyone has ventured over to Timberline as a side trip while at Canaan Valley. Has there been any activity from the new ownership on-site?

17 days ago

Things will  be happening bye spring time according to someone at the new ownership 

that place has great potential, I look forward to seeing what they will do, maybe getting involved in some way 

16 days ago

Not yet.  Locals say they were in the valley for a couple weeks in Dec, met with the rest of the winter sports industry, businesses, etc, and introduced some of the people who will operate the resort for them.

16 days ago

heard 3 companies are bidding on the new lifts.  They will probably start tearing them down soon.  The new mtn manager from Perfect North sounded very confident they would be open next year and doing well with snowmaking based on the temps we had in Nov/Dec.  Its not been so great the past 10days maybe, but there were 29 days in Nov with the minimum temp below 32, and 24 days in Dec. And over 2 weeks where the high temp was never even above 32..  So despite the lack much natural snow, there was ample snowmaking temps in Nov/Dec.  More than enough to get the new mtn ops guys very excited! 

  Like every business here, employment will be their obstacle. 

16 days ago

Actually while there in Dec it was reported that Perfect North had crew on TL property cleaning up the trash and junk the previous had just struwn around the property, and been cited for by county & state!

15 days ago

Perfect North Runs nastar and it would be nice to have that at Timberline again.

 

15 days ago

Would love to see them put in some faster lifts (ideally a high speed one, maybe even a six pack) though I know that is probably asking too much.   Just thrilled that there is a possibility Timberline will be open again next year.  

13 days ago

mdr227 wrote:

Would love to see them put in some faster lifts (ideally a high speed one, maybe even a six pack) though I know that is probably asking too much.   Just thrilled that there is a possibility Timberline will be open again next year.  

I feel like I read before that some skiers didn’t want high speed lifts there because it would bring in more people. Not that it could have happen with previous ownership, but I got the vibe.

13 days ago

High speed quad really not necessary especially if they refurbish a triple. Consumers like them but they are really expensive to install and to maintain. Some have argued that uphill capacity is the same and that lift lines on a highspeed are shorter because they are easier to load to capacity. Either way, a high speed will put more people on the slopes, greater crowding means less actual skiing and more moving people slalom. Not good, unless crowded slopes are your thing, of course. 

12 days ago

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

High speed quad really not necessary especially if they refurbish a triple. Consumers like them but they are really expensive to install and to maintain. Some have argued that uphill capacity is the same and that lift lines on a highspeed are shorter because they are easier to load to capacity. Either way, a high speed will put more people on the slopes, greater crowding means less actual skiing and more moving people slalom. Not good, unless crowded slopes are your thing, of course. 

 

It’s kind of a catch 22 with ski area crowds.   We skiers of course don’t like the crowds, but in order for the ski resorts to remain profitable, continue to invest, provide the best snow conditions, extend the season, etc. the more skiers the better.   For me personally I hate skiing anywhere on a weekend and am fortunate enough that I can get most of my ski days in on weekdays when crowds are not an issue.   I would love a high speed lift at Timberline to cut the previous 12 minute ride in half, but also understand the expense, upkeep, similar uphill capacity, etc. to standard lifts.   

Timberline is going to have a challenge drawing skiers back like it had 10 plus years ago and a high speed lift could be a great marketing tool for them, especially when battling Canaan for the same customers.  

12 days ago

It’s a big decision right? You only do this once every 30 years or so.  I believe the HS detachable would pay off in the long run and be the right decision from a customer view, but I have no idea about the cap ex plan, speed to market and technical installation location as far as wind conditions etc. (presuming the location is well suited for HSD)

Below is a link to a little more info-blog suggests FG is 1/2 cost of Detachable!

http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/2017/02/fixed-grip-versus-detachable.html

What about a 3rd option of refurbishing the current lift?  Or option 4, install a used one or two?

Thinking about having that place running in 9 months seems like a Herculean undertaking.  Anyone disagree?  Won’t there need to be a significant investment in snow making to actually get some acreage open by 12/1?

 

12 days ago

swoop wrote:

It’s a big decision right? You only do this once every 30 years or so.  I believe the HS detachable would pay off in the long run and be the right decision from a customer view, but I have no idea about the cap ex plan, speed to market and technical installation location as far as wind conditions etc. (presuming the location is well suited for HSD)

Below is a link to a little more info-blog suggests FG is 1/2 cost of Detachable!

http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/2017/02/fixed-grip-versus-detachable.html

What about a 3rd option of refurbishing the current lift?  Or option 4, install a used one or two?

Thinking about having that place running in 9 months seems like a Herculean undertaking.  Anyone disagree?  Won’t there need to be a significant investment in snow making to actually get some acreage open by 12/1?

 

Speaking for myself, I won’t consider Timberline until they get new lifts. They were bad when I went in 2013 and have incidents since then. 

marzNC - DCSki Supporter
12 days ago

swoop wrote:

It’s a big decision right? You only do this once every 30 years or so.  I believe the HS detachable would pay off in the long run and be the right decision from a customer view, but I have no idea about the cap ex plan, speed to market and technical installation location as far as wind conditions etc. (presuming the location is well suited for HSD)

Below is a link to a little more info-blog suggests FG is 1/2 cost of Detachable!

http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/2017/02/fixed-grip-versus-detachable.html

What about a 3rd option of refurbishing the current lift?  Or option 4, install a used one or two?

Thinking about having that place running in 9 months seems like a Herculean undertaking.  Anyone disagree?  Won’t there need to be a significant investment in snow making to actually get some acreage open by 12/1?

 

Waterville Valley considered a quad detachable when Green Mt was added.  In the end, it made more sense to move a fixed triple from a different location at WV and save at least a couple million dollars.

Based on paying attention to the revival of Tenney Mountain in NH after neglect and being closed for 4-5 years, the big question is how much snowmaking pipe has to be fixed or replaced whether or not one off-season is enough to get things back into functional shape.  Putting back snowguns seems like it will be more a matter of money than time.

The current owners of Tenney were able to fix up the old fixed-grip lifts.  Made it just in time to get them approved before the grandfather timeframe ran out.  But wouldn’t Timberline do better installing a new lift from a PR standpoint given the issues with the old lifts in recent years?

Plattekill has added snowmaking, used lifts, and terrain slowly but surely over the last couple decades.  But my sense is that the Perfect North family won’t be taking that approach for Timberline.

12 days ago

marzNC wrote:

Plattekill has added snowmaking, used lifts, and terrain slowly but surely over the last couple decades.  But my sense is that the Perfect North family won’t be taking that approach for Timberline.

As in, you suspect Perfect North will be taking an expedied approach to improving Timberline?

marzNC - DCSki Supporter
12 days ago

Bijan wrote:

marzNC wrote:

Plattekill has added snowmaking, used lifts, and terrain slowly but surely over the last couple decades.  But my sense is that the Perfect North family won’t be taking that approach for Timberline.

As in, you suspect Perfect North will be taking an expedied approach to improving Timberline?

Just a guess based on reading about the history of Perfect North.  But really depends on what financial resources they have in mind for the next 2-3 years.  The timeline on the Perfect North website shows a steady stream of improvements over the last 40 years.  Nothing flashy, but never sitting back and hoping people would be satisfied with the status quo.

https://www.perfectnorth.com/Timeline/

“Season 1

Construction began August of ‘80, and opened for the season on January 12, 1981. The lodge was built using old brick from Norwood Sash and Door in Cincinnati. Interior beams and siding were salvaged from local Indiana barns. PNS opened with 2 Stadeli cable tows and three rope tows on 150’ vertical drop. Snowmaking was done with 8 portable snowguns. 400 pairs of used rentals with Spademan bindings were in the basement rental shop. The tows and ski rentals were purchased from a defunct ski area in Tennessee.”

12 days ago

Frankly, comparing Timberline under Perfect North ownership to Plattekill is a bad comparison. Lazso and Platty have a bit of Al Davis in them. PN is more Ravens. Different apples and oranges.

Good God folks, most fixed grip lifts don’t take 13 minutes with no stops to climb 1000 vertical feet! It don’t matter what replaces Alvin and Company.

12 days ago

Lifts can be modified to increase speed with minimal cost. Chair spacing is an important factor. I think PN is going to make use of the assets that are available to get the place open next year. If I were a betting man, I’d bet a large sum that no lifts will be replaced for next season. Getting the snow making system upgraded is more important in this climate. The lodge also needs to be spruced up. It’s a pit. They need to get enough ski business to make investments in new lifts worth it’s while. 

11 days ago

snowsmith-I think you are spot on with a logical approach for priorities and timing to make a run at next season.  The problem many see is that if lifts are just patched up, there are many that have serious reservations about riding them.  (See wfyurasko above).  I believe it is more than a PR issue as people actually got hurt-

Anyway, good logical approach, I can see the excitement building I would just like to see the rehab plan-it still seems awfully aggressive-of course we will all be routing for them.

11 days ago

The only time that I have skied Timberline was the MAJOR snow in 2016 and it was the best day of my life!  I hope a new lift and upgrading the snow making is in their 2 year plan.

With the purchase by PN, do you think this will force Canaan to expand their snowmaking?  They are using what they have to create a good base for a few trails but the fun at Canaan is their “natural snow” trails.   With the current state of the climate, they get about 4 days a season (I think last year, it was 3 in December).  I read the snow report each day waiting for those trails to open and if possible, will take the off to enjoy them! Thoughts?

11 days ago

I may take you up on that bet

snowsmith wrote:

. If I were a betting man, I’d bet a large sum that no lifts will be replaced for next season. 

 

11 days ago

The North Family is not stupid, I bet there will be a new lift primarily serving the top of the mountain.  Then perhaps fix the existing lift to serve the mid-mountain only.  A fast, not detachable, new four person chair to the top should be adequate; then perhaps fix up the old bubble lift that could be operated in case the new chair had to shut down for some reason, or for wind were it a high speed chair.

Thus you would have three chairs operating all time: rebuilt shorter chair to mid mountain only, one existing short chair to the beginners area, and the new chair to the top. Perhaps nboth the new chair and mid/Mt chairs would have a magic carpet loader assist.

Hose out, actually pressure wash and paint the inside of the lodge, replace/rebuild the toilet areas., make do the first year of ops, and invest heavily in automatic snowmaking on several major trails versus dragging the guns and hoses across the mountain.  Repair and use the existing snowmaking infrastructure on other trails.  The upgrade the older snowmaking equip to automatic guns a bit at the time over a few years.

what you think?  I believe a new chair is essential to restoring thepublic’s confidence.  
MorganB aka The Colonel

11 days ago

Skytrac fixed grip quad is my guess for a new lift.

11 days ago

 id guess the triple and the bunny will be replaced if i were a betting man. doppelmayr

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Skytrac fixed grip quad is my guess for a new lift.

 

11 days ago

chaga wrote:

I may take you up on that bet

snowsmith wrote:

. If I were a betting man, I’d bet a large sum that no lifts will be replaced for next season. 

 

I’m with Chaga.

10 days ago

Majority of the snowmaking investment needed is below ground, not above.  New guns won’t matter if the pipes leak too badly to get water up the hill.

All the chatter in the Valley is about a new lift.  Manufacturers supposedly doing site visits, bids supposedly being solicited, etc.  Who knows, lotsa rumors.  Would sure be nice.

That said, there are still more than 150 Borvig lifts in operation at ski areas around the US (mostly in the NE), right?  Many of those in states that have state tramway inspection boards.  So someone, somewhere, knows how to inspect and maintain those lifts.  

10 days ago

JohnL wrote:

…Lazso and Platty have a bit of Al Davis in them.

Say no more (fingers in ears). Don’t ruin Platty for me :)

 

10 days ago

JohnL wrote:

chaga wrote:

I may take you up on that bet

snowsmith wrote:

. If I were a betting man, I’d bet a large sum that no lifts will be replaced for next season. 

 

I’m with Chaga.

My money would be on maxing the snowmaking capability first and making sure the current lifts are inspected and up to satisfactory condition. The month of January over the past 20 years is the month where the most natural snowfall occurs at Canaan/Timberline. We are in a pattern where the past 9 years snowfall has been less than 3’ for the month. The average over 20 years is nearly 4’. From 2001-2011 the average was about 5’. So building and maintaining a base with as many slopes open is a good way to attract a range of skiers. The current lifts are slow and public confidence in one’s safety is very important but if you cannot make enough snow then how do you attract people to ski there?

Hopefully things will turn back to a better winter pattern but if we don’t for a number of years like the past 9 on average the ability to make snow will be the most important consideration for ski resorts in the Mid-Atlantic region.

http://data.canaanmtnsnow.com/

 

10 days ago

JohnL wrote:

chaga wrote:

I may take you up on that bet

snowsmith wrote:

. If I were a betting man, I’d bet a large sum that no lifts will be replaced for next season. 

 

I’m with Chaga.

I’d be willing to wager say….a fifty spot that the triple and double lifts that go to the top of the mountain will be operating at TL for the 2020/2021 season.

10 days ago

snowsmith wrote:

Chaga.

I’d be willing to wager say….a fifty spot that the triple and double lifts that go to the top of the mountain will be operating at TL for the 2020/2021 season.

Ok you are on!  

10 days ago

chaga wrote:

 id guess the triple and the bunny will be replaced if i were a betting man. doppelmayr

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Skytrac fixed grip quad is my guess for a new lift.

 

If they use Doppelmayr lifts at PN that makes sense. I’m guessing Skytrac because this type of lift installation is in their wheelhouse and they also specialize in lift rebuilds phased in over a few years. As for a loading conveyor, Hidden Valley tried them and I believe they no longer use them. I’m not sure if it was maintenance issues or loading issues. Getting an inground conveyor up and running after a rainy thaw/freeze event must be fun.

10 days ago

chaga wrote:

snowsmith wrote:

Chaga.

I’d be willing to wager say….a fifty spot that the triple and double lifts that go to the top of the mountain will be operating at TL for the 2020/2021 season.

Ok you are on!  

Awesome! 50 smackers will get me a nice dinner😎

9 days ago

snowsmith wrote:

chaga wrote:

snowsmith wrote:

Chaga.

I’d be willing to wager say….a fifty spot that the triple and double lifts that go to the top of the mountain will be operating at TL for the 2020/2021 season.

Ok you are on!  

Awesome! 50 smackers will get me a nice dinner😎

I’m in also. You did say AND.

Chaga and I may have to celebrate together. 

9 days ago

Shotmaker wrote:

JohnL wrote:

chaga wrote:

I may take you up on that bet

snowsmith wrote:

. If I were a betting man, I’d bet a large sum that no lifts will be replaced for next season. 

 

I’m with Chaga.

My money would be on maxing the snowmaking capability first and making sure the current lifts are inspected and up to satisfactory condition. The month of January over the past 20 years is the month where the most natural snowfall occurs at Canaan/Timberline. We are in a pattern where the past 9 years snowfall has been less than 3’ for the month. The average over 20 years is nearly 4’. From 2001-2011 the average was about 5’. So building and maintaining a base with as many slopes open is a good way to attract a range of skiers. The current lifts are slow and public confidence in one’s safety is very important but if you cannot make enough snow then how do you attract people to ski there?

Hopefully things will turn back to a better winter pattern but if we don’t for a number of years like the past 9 on average the ability to make snow will be the most important consideration for ski resorts in the Mid-Atlantic region.

http://data.canaanmtnsnow.com/

 

Don’t disagree on snow making. At a minimum, they need upgraded snow making AND one new lift to the top. They seem very savy, and Im sure the Perfects know this.

9 days ago

camp wrote:

JohnL wrote:

…Lazso and Platty have a bit of Al Davis in them.

Say no more (fingers in ears). Don’t ruin Platty for me :)

 

I used to worry about that; but you can’t get to Platty unless you really want to get to Platty. So VT is actually more convenient.

9 days ago

Shotmaker wrote:

JohnL wrote:

chaga wrote:

I may take you up on that bet

snowsmith wrote:

. If I were a betting man, I’d bet a large sum that no lifts will be replaced for next season. 

 

I’m with Chaga.

My money would be on maxing the snowmaking capability first and making sure the current lifts are inspected and up to satisfactory condition. The month of January over the past 20 years is the month where the most natural snowfall occurs at Canaan/Timberline. We are in a pattern where the past 9 years snowfall has been less than 3’ for the month. The average over 20 years is nearly 4’. From 2001-2011 the average was about 5’. So building and maintaining a base with as many slopes open is a good way to attract a range of skiers. The current lifts are slow and public confidence in one’s safety is very important but if you cannot make enough snow then how do you attract people to ski there?

Hopefully things will turn back to a better winter pattern but if we don’t for a number of years like the past 9 on average the ability to make snow will be the most important consideration for ski resorts in the Mid-Atlantic region.

http://data.canaanmtnsnow.com/

 

I’ve been skiing T-Line for 15 years now; very familiar with the weather history and of your linked site. 
 

1) I doubt both main lifts pass inspection. From previous knowledge.

2) At least some of the snowmaking pipes have to be redone for year one. It may be more cost effective to replace all of it though.

3) Lodge can wait. It is functional, rest of infra is not.

9 days ago

JohnL wrote:

I’ve been skiing T-Line for 15 years now; very familiar with the weather history and of your linked site. 
 

1) I doubt both main lifts pass inspection. From previous knowledge.

2) At least some of the snowmaking pipes have to be redone for year one. It may be more cost effective to replace all of it though.

3) Lodge can wait. It is functional, rest of infra is not.

Oh, they will clean up the lodge too. It is just as much the face of a resort as lifts or snowmaking. Probably more so to the average recreational skier. They don’t see snowmaking infrastructure, they do see the lodge.

5 days ago

JohnL wrote:

snowsmith wrote:

chaga wrote:

snowsmith wrote:

Chaga.

I’d be willing to wager say….a fifty spot that the triple and double lifts that go to the top of the mountain will be operating at TL for the 2020/2021 season.

Ok you are on!  

Awesome! 50 smackers will get me a nice dinner😎

I’m in also. You did say AND.

Chaga and I may have to celebrate together. 

whoa, wait a sec John, dont be cutting in on my action! We can still celebrate though. Hopefully we can get a lift chair fundraising auction/sale, because I’d like one as a porch swing!  

5 days ago

Back to the lift question, I would love to see a high speed but unless they can also have fixed grips the whole mountain could shut down during wind events.  

 

Esp. when T’line was actually busy the main lift was painfully slow in part due to beginners who were only going to the mid station.  If they are sticking with fixed grips they better have enough to spread the experience levels out some.  If a fix grip can run at full speed to the top it wouldn’t be to bad.

maybe clear some of the dead fall out of cherry bowl, or is that a controversial suggestion?

3 days ago

There you have it-brand new lift for sure and some level of commitment to new snowmaking equipment/infrastructure, as well as high confidence that they will get it all done in one off season.  Go Perfect North! Tline to rise from the ashes!

https://www.skisoutheast.com/hoppy-kercheval-of-wv-metro-news-interviews-new-owners-of-timberline-resort/

3 days ago

SNowsmith, you can just call Stumptown Ales in Davis, and have them add a $50 giftcard tab for me if you want. I promise to buy beers for other skiers with it :) 

swoop wrote:

There you have it-brand new lift for sure and some level of commitment to new snowmaking equipment/infrastructure, as well as high confidence that they will get it all done in one off season.  Go Perfect North! Tline to rise from the ashes!

https://www.skisoutheast.com/hoppy-kercheval-of-wv-metro-news-interviews-new-owners-of-timberline-resort/

 

3 days ago

Chaga- we’ll see next November. I’m still betting that they won’t get that done this year. Maybe you can come to the Laurel Mountain gathering and give me a 50 spot advance. I’m a little nicer, I’ll buy you one beer😎.

18 hours ago

swoop wrote:

There you have it-brand new lift for sure and some level of commitment to new snowmaking equipment/infrastructure, as well as high confidence that they will get it all done in one off season.  Go Perfect North! Tline to rise from the ashes!

https://www.skisoutheast.com/hoppy-kercheval-of-wv-metro-news-interviews-new-owners-of-timberline-resort/

 

That is great news that they are putting in a new lift, working on infrastructure and planning to open next year.    

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