""The next six to 12 weeks are going to be the darkest of the entire pandemic," Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, told NBC's"Meet the Press" on Sunday.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/19/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
States shuttered ski areas last March. It could happen again.
There is a great deal of variation between regions for COVID-19. Just as the major tragedies in Feb-March in NYC didn't represent what happend in the rest of the country, the serious problems in the midwest in Sep-Oct don't represent the rest of the country either.
The second wave is unfortunately typically worse than the first wave for most populations in any pandemic. There is a lot more knowledge about to decrease the spread of COVID-19 than in March. However, convincing more people that non-pharmaceutical interventions such as mask usage and physical distancing both indoors and outdoors really do work is pretty difficult. Especially where numbers were low in the spring and early summer. Very hard to understand a disease that people can spread unknowingly for days when they don't have any symptoms. It's deadly in terms of cumulative numbers but the great majority of those who get COVID-19 hardly even notice. A big risk factor contributing to excess deaths due to COVID-19 in the U.S. is the fact that a large percentage of people are obese or diabetic. Similar issue for the UK.
There are a lot of ways to see the statistics broken down by states, counties, or cities/towns. I tend to use this one.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html
In Australia Jun-Sep 2020, a major outbreak in Melbourne cause a lock down to be imposed on the state of Victoria. That caused ski resorts in that state to essentially be closed for the entire season. However, ski resorts in New South Wales stayed open all season, including Perisher that is owned by Vail Resorts. Thredbo is an independent ski resort that is on the MCP and it also stayed open all season.
Ths is part of a communication I just received from my Becknridge property manager:
"Another reason to remain guarded is that unfortunately COVID-19 cases in Summit County are on the rise again. No one is pushing the panic button just yet, but Summit County officials have indicated that if the county moves back into the “Level 3: High Risk” category, previous restrictions will be reimplemented, including restrictions on short-term rentals." (and closing ski areas)
The timeframe I wonder about the most is the second and third weeks of January. Meaning a couple weeks after some people will gather with family and/or friends without being careful enough, or not at all.
Mid-December will be worth watching as well given that many ski resorts expect to be open shortly after Thanksgiving. With capacity limits, probably not as many people on the slopes during early season. But will give some indication of the interest from locals for all regions.
We are in planning for racing and we see this. MD and VA residents are not allowed by covid law to ski in New York or Vermont or Mass as of today YOU may think you can but reality is starting to set in. MD you can ski in MD, PA, WV and VA but north of PA/NY line forget it. Good Luck. Out west no restrictions yet. Colorado will shut it down at 15% positive case rate.
Using projections each state is different with the ebb and flow of restricitons makes it diffucullt to plan. I can state this IN MD or VA you are not able to ski in NY, VT or MASS. NH is vague, In PA so far ok for MD but you never know with the PA gov. I understand why air use is only 35% of norm. a avg season is 50 million visits + wonder what the final outcome will be. The reason pass sales were up was for local drive resort use and reservation ability. Epic you can reserve 7 days when the reservation system goes live Nov 1 ???
skiracerx wrote:
We are in planning for racing and we see this. MD and VA residents are not allowed by covid law to ski in New York or Vermont or Mass as of today YOU may think you can but reality is starting to set in. MD you can ski in MD, PA, WV and VA but north of PA/NY line forget it. Good Luck. Out west no restrictions yet. Colorado will shut it down at 15% positive case rate.
In general, NY, NJ, and New England are the mostly likely to continue to have travel restrictions for residents of "high risk" states for quite a while. However, NY has clarified that there won't be any restrictions for PA residents driving across the PA/NY border because it's unenforceable. There is simply too much day-to-day traffic for work and other reasons.
As for the western states, NM is the only one trying to have travel restrictions. It's not working very well since none of the neighboring states are handling the pandemic with an approach similar to NM. I have a trip planned to Taos with friends but may well have to cancel if the situation doesn't change by December.
Will be keeping on eye on CO. Have friends planning to go from the east coast to ski there in December. I'm heading to SLC then. Not expecting UT, WY, ID, MT to set up travel restrictions. Do hope that the people there start being more sensible so that there are fewer outbreaks. It's not been looking good in since Labor Day.
My understand for Vermont is that use an honor system. If you travel to Vermont in a personal vehicle you can quarantine in your home for 14 days prior to leaving. Is this not true?
My understand for Vermont is that use an honor system. If you travel to Vermont in a personal vehicle you can quarantine in your home for 14 days prior to leaving. Is this not true?
jpetraiuolo wrote:
My understand for Vermont is that use an honor system. If you travel to Vermont in a personal vehicle you can quarantine in your home for 14 days prior to leaving. Is this not true?
That's not how I read the rules. Even with a negative test before leaving home, a 7-day self-quarantine is required in VT.
Things got a little ugly in a few places in VT this summer for people with out-of-state plates. Bottom line is that there are residents of VT who really don't welcome out-of-state visitors. Presumably they are people who don't depend on tourists or skiers/boarders for their jobs.
Residents of other states who live in a quarantine county or are from any other state outside of the Northeast (including New England; New York; Pennsylvania; Ohio; New Jersey; Delaware; Maryland; Washington, D.C.; Virginia; and West Virginia), must follow quarantine guidelines:
Ski Vermont is trying to both encourage people to consider skiing in VT but also warning people about travel restrictions and other adjustments this season.
https://skivermont.com/trip-planning-and-covid-19
marzNC wrote:
jpetraiuolo wrote:
My understand for Vermont is that use an honor system. If you travel to Vermont in a personal vehicle you can quarantine in your home for 14 days prior to leaving. Is this not true?
That's not how I read the rules. Even with a negative test before leaving home, a 7-day self-quarantine is required in VT.
Things got a little ugly in a few places in VT this summer for people with out-of-state plates. Bottom line is that there are residents of VT who really don't welcome out-of-state visitors. Presumably they are people who don't depend on tourists or skiers/boarders for their jobs.
Residents of other states who live in a quarantine county or are from any other state outside of the Northeast (including New England; New York; Pennsylvania; Ohio; New Jersey; Delaware; Maryland; Washington, D.C.; Virginia; and West Virginia), must follow quarantine guidelines:
- Travelers arriving to Vermont in a personal vehicle, may complete either a 14-day quarantine or a 7-day quarantine followed by a negative test in their home state and enter Vermont without further quarantine restrictions.
- Travelers arriving to Vermont via public transportation (plane, train, bus) or from further than a direct car ride would allow may complete either a 14-day quarantine or a 7-day quarantine followed by a negative test in a Vermont lodging establishment or with friends and family (travelers must stay in their quarantine location for the duration of quarantine other than to travel to and from a test site).
What was “ ugly “ that happened to them? we had no trouble at all driving to Vermont this summer
this isn’t China , does anyone actually know someone who got in trouble for driving to another state? Or were just unkind words spoken from some knuckleheads that can be easily ignored
This summer in Vermont was different from the end of the ski season in Vermont.
A good friend from NYC who does season-long rentals in the Killington/Pico region found himself on the receiving end of bad moods and harassment from locals when he went to his rental unit to clean it out in early May. I think that Vermonters were more welcoming to summer visitors due to the combination of lower infection rates and the decrease in revenue from lower tourism.
But everywhere is seeing upticks in infections, especially states that provide the majority of tourists to Vermont. Even fairly local states - Massachusetts and Rhode Island - are seeing sizable increases in infections and Vermont is taking notice. Also: Vermont towns do track out-of-state plates per experiences of friends who visited there this summer. All my friends followed the quarantine rules and did fine, but the tourism business was down markedly this summer. If even 50 percent of typical out-of-state skier visits happen this season, it'll be a far greater number of people visiting the state. I can foresee lockdowns happening.
To wit (and with a nod to SkiRacerX): the Vermont Alpine Racing Association (VARA) is prohibiting any out-of-state teams from competing in their events, save for regional championship events for U16 and U19 athletes (and those athletes will need to abide by Vermont state quarantine rules). Yes, they're a subset of the total skier population, but it's entirely possible that resorts will circle the wagons to keep things under control.
We'll see what transpires in Pennsylvania. But given how things are developing with colder weather moving in, the situation is definitely not looking as rosy as some may think.
songfta wrote:
This summer in Vermont was different from the end of the ski season in Vermont.
A good friend from NYC who does season-long rentals in the Killington/Pico region found himself on the receiving end of bad moods and harassment from locals when he went to his rental unit to clean it out in early May. I think that Vermonters were more welcoming to summer visitors due to the combination of lower infection rates and the decrease in revenue from lower tourism.
But everywhere is seeing upticks in infections, especially states that provide the majority of tourists to Vermont. Even fairly local states - Massachusetts and Rhode Island - are seeing sizable increases in infections and Vermont is taking notice. Also: Vermont towns do track out-of-state plates per experiences of friends who visited there this summer. All my friends followed the quarantine rules and did fine, but the tourism business was down markedly this summer. If even 50 percent of typical out-of-state skier visits happen this season, it'll be a far greater number of people visiting the state. I can foresee lockdowns happening.
To wit (and with a nod to SkiRacerX): the Vermont Alpine Racing Association (VARA) is prohibiting any out-of-state teams from competing in their events, save for regional championship events for U16 and U19 athletes (and those athletes will need to abide by Vermont state quarantine rules). Yes, they're a subset of the total skier population, but it's entirely possible that resorts will circle the wagons to keep things under control.
We'll see what transpires in Pennsylvania. But given how things are developing with colder weather moving in, the situation is definitely not looking as rosy as some may think.
Have not heard of anyone coming close to thinking things will be rosy this season.
If you’re friend followed Covid-19 restrictions when he cleared out his rental unit then he had no reason to even care what anyone said to him.
songfta wrote:
This summer in Vermont was different from the end of the ski season in Vermont.
A good friend from NYC who does season-long rentals in the Killington/Pico region found himself on the receiving end of bad moods and harassment from locals when he went to his rental unit to clean it out in early May. I think that Vermonters were more welcoming to summer visitors due to the combination of lower infection rates and the decrease in revenue from lower tourism.
The same thing happened in Summit County Colorado -- thru about the 4th of July. The local paper was filled with letters to the editor from locals telling visitors to stay home.
The data here is based on the projection of a model, models are dynamic and change. The last big change to the model was therapy. Therapy dropped the death rate and hospital stay rate by 30 % - A Positive! When the model gave a number 9 months ago it had no forward look into the future.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-1132-9 a link for the model change it goes deep
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I have 30 people who race and live all over the USA (90% in mid atl)
Mid Atlantic Masters (PA/NY, SARA Masters WV, VA, NC (southern) & Nastar
First question where can we race? state restrictions then came when is peak and what be the case count / 100k
At posting no word on NASTAR and it was sold in the summer.
I had to read every state on that list then the resort page.
I find it interesting all states have this rule:
If you are a state employee and travel to a hot zone for leisure and then need sick time paid it will not be covered.
Colorado is open but I found this nice BIG NOTICE you come get sick your dime for 14 days.
Pretty sure the message is-- stay local leisure is not essential
NO one said to cancel a season we say know before you book or go.
Reservations -----50% caps on capacity, no bars to belly too means change.
I have 1/4 keg in the trunk
NOT a normal year except for the 1/4 keg
on da other hand - it was 14 degrees here in North Lake Tahoe this morning and Diamond Peak was making snow all night! Woo Hoo love it! 
Very confident that with appropriate health and safety measures mid-Atlantic skiing will happen this year. In fact, passholder visits will out-pace previous years.
This about additional restrictions is from my property manager today - covering Keystone, Breckenridge, Copper, and A-Basin ski areas:
"The COVID-19 situation in Summit County continues to evolve. On Friday, October 23, Summit County Public Health officials announced that COVID-19 cases in the county stand at 342.1 cases per 100,000 people, placing the county in the “Level 3: High Risk” category. In order to comply with state requirements, the county has issued an amended Public Health Order and announced further restrictions on gathering sizes, office capacity, short-term lodging, and restaurants and bars. You can read more about the new restrictions (which are in effect through November 30, 2020) in the Summit Daily News.
I take this as if you quarantine at home for 14 days prior to entering VT you are good.
jpetraiuolo wrote:
Well I’m the idiot who planned a whole trip to Vermont already and bought lift tickets/lodging. Fingers crossed they will let in visitors because I’ve been really excited about this trip. Hopefully we can get covid under control and keep everyone safe.Either way I feel confident there will be skiing this year. Looking forward to going to timberline as much as possible.
Good for you to be ready! If anyone is up for using a condo walking distance to Killington let me know
jpetraiuolo wrote:
The Vermont code says the following for out of state residents, “ Residents of other states who live in a quarantine county or are from any other state outside of the Northeast (including New England; New York; Pennsylvania; Ohio; New Jersey; Delaware; Maryland; Washington, D.C.; Virginia; and West Virginia), must follow quarantine guidelines:
- Travelers arriving to Vermont in a personal vehicle, may complete either a 14-day quarantine or a 7-day quarantine followed by a negative test in their home state and enter Vermont without further quarantine restrictions.”
I take this as if you quarantine at home for 14 days prior to entering VT you are good.
Just be sure to check the rules a few weeks before your trip. The situation continues to change.
For NY, it's been made clear that no one is going to stop someone with out-of-state plates. Also NY isn't going to try to restrict residents of PA even though the travel restriction agreement NY has is just with NJ and CT. The NY border is too long and there is too much daily traffic. Same issue has come up between RI and MA when the infection rates went up a bit in RI.
Summit County Colorado is worse than a week ago -- as of 10/29
What will happen when lots of skiers show up?
539 cases per 100,000
Positivity greater than 10%
https://www.summitdaily.com/news/summit-county-given-one-week-to-improve-virus-case-numbers/
JimK wrote:
The state of Utah broke it's record today for new infections in one day. This follows a series of record days. ICUs are nearing capacity. The state just issued an amber alert warning against group gatherings over Halloween weekend. I'm generally upbeat, but this concerns me. Hopefully this surge will peak and start declining in Utah by the meat of the ski season, otherwise there could be travel implications for ski vacationers from out of state??
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who only learn the realities of how infectious COVID-19 is even when someone has no symptoms when the number of cases goes up "in their backyard." Utah is experiencing a classic second wave, which is typical for every pandemic. The headlines and direct experience will cause more people to become more sensible fairly soon. At least that's what happened in TX and FL during the summer.
What I wonder is how things will be around mid-January, which will be a couple weeks after the holiday period. Not only will there by travelers going to Utah for ski vacations, the locals seem unlikely to skip having in-person family gatherings.
Summit County Colorado continues to move in the wrong direction. Positivity up to 14.3% -- about 40% higher than a week ago.
https://www.summitdaily.com/news/new-restrictions-begin-friday-as-summit-county-moves-backward-in-reopening-process/
Just looked at the A-Basin webcams . The one showing the bottom of Black Mountain Express (base area lift for those of you unfamiliar with the Basin), was very crowded with almost no social distancing. I hope this is not/ will not be happening on other hills.
Since these are webcam shots, you may not see what I did.
A-Basin - not looking good for social distancing
vpr.org in this link a podcast MGMT at Vermont resorts the link has a podcast to listen to. thanks to Lou Botta?? and I took a 1 hr to listen.
Based on numbers many states will tighten up every 14 days. Many resorts will have staffing issues also.
All kinds of issues for data collection forms to sign.
The idea of rapid test was a no go due to cost.
Always a 10 - 14-day bump after the holiday (Thanksgiving, Christmas, and new years, MLK, Presidents)
terrible Delima in a no-win situation.
It looks like those of us that live in the DMV and primarily ski at Whitetail, Liberty, and Roundtop are likely out of luck this season: health.pa.gov Now on to the process of figuring out how to get my money back or a credit from Vail for the Epic Northeast passes that I purchased for the season.
wgo wrote:
The Pennsylvania order is huge news. What % of Whitetail/Liberty/Roundtop's business comes from daytrippers from outside of PA? It will be interesting to see if this leads to more NoVA skiers at Wintergreen, Massanutten, and Bryce.
Not sure of the exact percent, other than "the vast majority" (at least for Liberty and Whitetail; Roundtop has a higher mix of PA locals).
VaTech2k wrote:
It looks like those of us that live in the DMV and primarily ski at Whitetail, Liberty, and Roundtop are likely out of luck this season: health.pa.gov Now on to the process of figuring out how to get my money back or a credit from Vail for the Epic Northeast passes that I purchased for the season.
Ah, so PA is joining NY and New England states for travel restrictions. Wonder if there was pressure from NY, which was not bothering to try to make PA residents adhere to travel restrictions because it was too impractical with such a long common border.
Certainly should be able to get a refund for an Epic Pass. Did you get a Northeast Epic or one that included locations out west?
wgo wrote:
The Pennsylvania order is huge news. What % of Whitetail/Liberty/Roundtop's business comes from daytrippers from outside of PA? It will be interesting to see if this leads to more NoVA skiers at Wintergreen, Massanutten, and Bryce.
With Massanutten, Bryce, and Canaan Valley on the Indy Pass, might be more reason to give it a try. Six ski days for $199 isn't a bad deal. But I guess Blue Knob will be mainly PA residents.
Massanutten is not requiring reservations for Indy passholders. At least that's the plan as of last week.
"As of Tuesday afternoon, Summit County was reporting 1,117 new cases per 100,000 people over a 14-day period, a number that falls well within the level red standards,...
The county’s move to level red means most businesses are going to be under tighter restrictions. According to the state’s dial webpage, restaurants will be limited to serving food outdoors or through takeout and delivery, offices will be limited to 10% capacity, and gyms and fitness centers will be limited to 10% capacity or up to 10 people per room, whichever is fewer.
Restaurants also will be subject to an 8 p.m. last call.
Under level red, noncritical and critical retail stores must operate at 50% capacity with increased curbside pickup and delivery as well as designated hours for seniors and other high-risk groups.
The health board also is considering additional restrictions on short-term lodging facilities and ski areas. Commissioner Karn Stiegelmeier said the county is looking at a capacity restriction on ski areas. However, she was not specific about what that capacity would be.
“It doesn’t make sense to impose on all of our small businesses, reduce capacity, reduce services and then have 70,000 people in our ski areas,” Stiegelmeier said. “So we’re really looking at what might be appropriate there or reducing that capacity.”
Edit add: if it moves to purple, short term lodging and ski areas will close.
VaTech2k wrote:
It looks like those of us that live in the DMV and primarily ski at Whitetail, Liberty, and Roundtop are likely out of luck this season: health.pa.gov Now on to the process of figuring out how to get my money back or a credit from Vail for the Epic Northeast passes that I purchased for the season.
Understandable to see PA implement restrictions similar to those in Vermont, Maine, and New York. But sad news for so many.
There goes my Epic Northeast Pass ...
Everybody be smart, stay safe, and stay healthy.
Woody
The PA restrictions are voluntary... for those of us working at home you may be compliant without a test.
EDIT: Nevermind... this may be more strict than the post I read yesterday. Need to look into it more.
I also noticed that they quietly have reduced the night skiing hours to 4 days (or 3 days depending on the resort) a week. To me this seems like a bit of a bait and switch on the epic pass sales, as going to the slopes after work seemed like a safe alternative then a gym or other options.
The websites had already been updated and listed the usual 10 pm closing and then they seemed to have slipped this in this week. I realize times are crazy but the resorts need to advertise this before the cancellation date comes into play.
Sounds like ski resorts will be allowed to keep lifts runnings under Code Red. But if things go to Purple, that's probably full Stay at Home for a county trending in the wrong direction. Base buildings can only be used for a quite warm up and restrooms. No indoor dining, which has been happening at Keystone based on making a reservation online using a QR code near the door. Link is to an article in The Know of the Denver Post from late today. The first version left it unclear what the situation would be for ski resorts.
bousquet19 wrote:
Understandable to see PA implement restrictions similar to those in Vermont, Maine, and New York. But sad news for so many.
There goes my Epic Northeast Pass ...
Everybody be smart, stay safe, and stay healthy.
Woody
PA is similar but yet different. Only recently have NY and ME moved to requiring evidence based on a COVID-19 test in a certain timeframe. NY, NJ, VT, NH, ME travel restrictions are all a little different. MA and RI have been having issues since so many people live in RI and work in the greater Boston area.
Given that PA shares a border with OH, perhaps travel restrictions seems sensible. But there are a lot of exceptions, so hard to say if keeping non-PA residents out will really make that much difference. As in other states, the increase in cases are mostly in adults ages 20-49 and due to informal social gatherings, as opposed to what was happening in the spring.
Based on the story in the Summit Daily News, I expect some form of capacity limit to be imposed on Summit County resorts.
marzNC wrote:
Sounds like ski resorts will be allowed to keep lifts runnings under Code Red. But if things go to Purple, that's probably full Stay at Home for a county trending in the wrong direction. Base buildings can only be used for a quite warm up and restrooms. No indoor dining, which has been happening at Keystone based on making a reservation online using a QR code near the door. Link is to an article in The Know of the Denver Post from late today. The first version left it unclear what the situation would be for ski resorts.
Colorado ski areas allowed to stay open under Level Red COVID-19 restrictions
bob wrote:
Based on the story in the Summit Daily News, I expect some form of capacity limit to be imposed on Summit County resorts.
There already are capacity limits in place for Colorado ski resorts, both for lift service and use of base lodges. Do you mean that those limits would be reduced?
Don't know what the percentage is in CO, but for Taos the idea is 25%. Of course, Taos can't even open until NM gets out of Stay At Home, which won't be before Dec. 1.
Here's a general overview across multiple regions in the U.S. Not much new for people who have been keeping up with news about the ski industry in the last few months.
From how we ride the lifts to where we sleep and what we eat, ski areas are taking steps to minimize crowding and to curb opportunities for the virus to spread.
Some ski areas have self imposed capacity limits. Some really don't. Copper has a parking limit, but that doesn't affect people renting condos at Copper or people deciding to ride the bus to get around the parking limits.
Summit County officials have said that the county will impose other limits. Summit County just said "no inside eating" that would apply to ski area eateries, too.
marzNC wrote:
bob wrote:
Based on the story in the Summit Daily News, I expect some form of capacity limit to be imposed on Summit County resorts.
There already are capacity limits in place for Colorado ski resorts, both for lift service and use of base lodges. Do you mean that those limits would be reduced?
Don't know what the percentage is in CO, but for Taos the idea is 25%. Of course, Taos can't even open until NM gets out of Stay At Home, which won't be before Dec. 1.
bob wrote:
Some ski areas have self imposed capacity limits. Some really don't. Copper has a parking limit, but that doesn't affect people renting condos at Copper or people deciding to ride the bus to get around the parking limits.
Summit County officials have said that the county will impose other limits. Summit County just said "no inside eating" that would apply to ski area eateries, too.
My understanding is that every ski area/resort must have a winter ops plan that is approved by both county and state public health authorities. That's based on the fact that Keystone almost didn't get to open as announced because they had to wait for final approval of last minute changes that were required.
Agree that the restrictions are likely to change. But my sense is that a ski area can't just open with no communication with Colorado public health authorities.
Addressing capacity limits for lift-served ski terrain is different than setting a cap on how many people can be in a building. No one is asking a ski resort to count how many people ride a lift during a given hour or on a given day. From what I've read in SAM articles, there is estimation happening based on adjusted usage of lifts. For instance, the uphill capacity of a quad can be calculated based on loading 4 people on all chairs, or by estimating that 50% of the chairs will only have 2 people and the other 50% average 3 people. Three on a chair could be a "pod" of three friends and family or a solo skier willing to ride with two people skiing together, with one empty chair in between. Any modeling can easily take into account how many people are in slopeside lodging, which may also have more limited capacity than usual.
rbrtlav wrote:
The PA restrictions are voluntary... for those of us working at home you may be compliant without a test.
EDIT: Nevermind... this may be more strict than the post I read yesterday. Need to look into it more.
I also noticed that they quietly have reduced the night skiing hours to 4 days (or 3 days depending on the resort) a week. To me this seems like a bit of a bait and switch on the epic pass sales, as going to the slopes after work seemed like a safe alternative then a gym or other options.
The websites had already been updated and listed the usual 10 pm closing and then they seemed to have slipped this in this week. I realize times are crazy but the resorts need to advertise this before the cancellation date comes into play.
Bait and switch is right, also that makes them use less electricity etc to show they are working towards ZERO as they advertise, the only ZERO is the amount of value the average EPIC paying customers will get this season,
the price of Epic pass goes up $100 November 22nd before you find out who actually opens is not the way to run a company, they just want your money period,
"In the order, the county is requiring that all ski areas submit plans to “further reduce their daily capacities.” All ski areas have already been required to submit plans for virus containment at the resorts.
The new order takes those plans a step further by requiring the ski areas to reduce capacity again. However, the order did not list specific capacity requirements for the ski areas.
The modified capacity limits for the ski areas are expected to be approved by public health by Tuesday, Nov. 24, with an effective date of Wednesday, Nov. 25, according to the order."
Let's see how this affects people flying in for the holiday
Good morning sending love and hugs to all. I AM NOT A SHEEP, NOR SCARED, Well informed.
COVID continues to accelerate almost double the case count every 14 days.
Observation: Maryland has a MASK in public order including common areas in my apt bldg.
12 Units = 2 units me a neighbor above me mask 16% comply. not good. Per the model, MD is at 70% mask compliance.
80% do not wear a mask - even with signs posted, the worst part is many fit the high risk by race per CDC.
As a handyman, I mask a lot and find it not a bother.
I see some PA counties with ICU at 100% York County PA is one.
MD - in 12 days Double the counts
Cases per 100 k doubled, infection R1 rate up Positive test % up 3%. MD will hit above 10% very soon.
UTAH and NEW HAMPSHIRE - no lock <>
(Summit County Colorado) Ski area capacities to be reduced starting Wednesday
"DILLON — Ski area capacity will be further reduced as a result of Summit County’s move to level red on the state’s COVID-19 dial.
The county’s latest public health order, which was issued Friday, Nov. 20, requires Summit County ski areas — including Arapahoe Basin Ski Area, Breckenridge Ski Resort, Copper Mountain Resort and Keystone Resort — to work with the local public health agency to further reduce their daily capacities, which already were reduced in each ski area’s existing COVID-19 operating plan.
County Manager Scott Vargo said the capacities would be set by public health Tuesday, Nov. 24, and take effect Wednesday, Nov. 25.
The county has not shared specific capacity limits at ski areas.
Ski areas consider skier visits to be proprietary, and the county has cited public records law language that protects trade secrets.
On Tuesday morning, Vargo said the county has had conversations with officials at each resort to identify ways to adjust capacity. That limit could come in the form of a percentage of overall guests or a numerical reduction, such as a specific number of guests that are allowed each day.
Vargo said the driving factor behind reducing the resorts’ capacities is the current level red designation, which prohibits indoor dining and limits gathering sizes."
correct the CO guidelines go from 50% to 25% then ----CLOSED
3 metrics % pos, Cases per 100k and hospital overload.
So far regular flu has not shown up. we hope regular flu is down re more got a flu shot. more hand washing and mask.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/europe-ski-season-doubts/index.html
The season could end up looking somewhat like that of Europe if people are not smart. Talking with senior leaders at my construction firm, we are building a new hospital for VCU/MCV and the lead doctor who is in charge of VCU Health at MCV said that the peak for cases is going to be in early February. While they are prepared for this, it comes with great concern to know that the moving average and daily increase is supposed to get worse significantly. While all of this is has been said, they are working closely with the VDH and CDC as they are a front-runner in participating for COVID-19 vaccine trials as well as running metrics and data on almost an hourly basis to provide Virginia with real-time information.
While it may not be mandated now, I can see any inter-state travel from high-risk areas may end up being applied to Virginia and or depending upon certain regions of VA. I also wouldn't be surprised to see that businesses across the board start refusing business to people who do not have the vaccine once it becomes more readily available to the public.
Please keep in mind that while this is something that can be considered true, I would still take it with a grain of salt as things are always changing. But please share your thoughts!
If West Virginia was able to provide guidance and or each mountain resort such as T'line, Snowshoe, and CV I think they can operate safely without much public risk. Being able to have a reservation and capacity limit in place would help especially at peak times. It is just a pick and chooses your battle situation.
Winterplace is not nearly as busy as these guys can be.
nickhaas212 wrote:
If West Virginia was able to provide guidance and or each mountain resort such as T'line, Snowshoe, and CV I think they can operate safely without much public risk. Being able to have a reservation and capacity limit in place would help especially at peak times. It is just a pick and chooses your battle situation.
Winterplace is not nearly as busy as these guys can be.
Thanks for the information re. VCU and Virginia, as well as for your thoughts about the WV situation, rickhaas212. God points and helpful details.
As much as I regret it, it looks like skiing north of the Mason-Dixon Line may not be available to me this season. Since I live in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley, it may well be that my home state and WV will become the only options. S- l - o - w - l - y I'm accepting this restriction as a real possibility.
In response, I bought an IndyPass last week (Cataloochee anyone?) and will probably defer my Snowshoe Ridiculous Pass for a year (unwise to share lodging with friends outside my bubble). Then there's Vail. Vail may make me eat the cost of my Epic Pass unless the Grinch gives 'way to Santa and Vail decides to extend their rollover option or offer refunds on 2020-21 passes. (See separate thread about Vail/Epic refunds).
Cheers, health, and thinking snow,
Woody
Same for me, I think. We have a family pass for Massanutten and I will probably try for a couple day trips to Timberline as well.
As much as I regret it, it looks like skiing north of the Mason-Dixon Line may not be available to me this season. Since I live in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley, it may well be that my home state and WV will become the only options. S- l - o - w - l - y I'm accepting this restriction as a real possibility.
Woody
More day trips it seems for myself. Bryce is my usual oasis for having fun for a day, but hopefully I can still safely go to CV and Timberline as much as possible as those are my favorite spots out of state in the area. CO, WY, MT, and Canada are out of the question.
With regret, I may end up having to go to Wintergreen this year for mid-week night skiing...... even though the highlands aren't open at night it is better than nothing I guess....
Woody,
7S, HV and LM are all north of the Mason-Dixon and ready, willing and able. :-)
HVdad wrote:
Woody,
7S, HV and LM are all north of the Mason-Dixon and ready, willing and able. :-)
Unfortunately it doesn't seem so, HVdad. (And I'm writing as someone who has considered Liberty and Whitetail my home areas for more than a decade, for day trips.)
I have an Epic Northeast Midweek Pass that I doubt I will be able to use ... but I'd be happy to be wrong! And I get to western PA too.
The November 20 restrictions on out-of-state travel into PA make day trips for skiing impractical, expensive, impossible, or all three. Please see the information in this thread: dcski.com
Woody
No problems here - gonna pick up our season passes along this week - opening day Dec. 10
nickhaas212 wrote:
If West Virginia was able to provide guidance and or each mountain resort such as T'line, Snowshoe, and CV I think they can operate safely without much public risk. Being able to have a reservation and capacity limit in place would help especially at peak times. It is just a pick and chooses your battle situation.
Winterplace is not nearly as busy as these guys can be.
Winterplace can be pretty busy on weekends, but that's because of big groups. Some even stay overnight and ski both days. But that's something that Winterplace can control fairly easily.
nickhaas212 wrote:
More day trips it seems for myself. Bryce is my usual oasis for having fun for a day, but hopefully I can still safely go to CV and Timberline as much as possible as those are my favorite spots out of state in the area. CO, WY, MT, and Canada are out of the question.
With regret, I may end up having to go to Wintergreen this year for mid-week night skiing...... even though the highlands aren't open at night it is better than nothing I guess....
Any particular reason you didn't mention Massanutten at all? It's on the Indy Pass, as is Bryce and CV.
itdoesntmatter wrote:
My CO trip in March is looking very questionable. My VRBO can be cancelled up until 1/31 with 100% refund. Will decide after the first of the year.
Some time in January I have to make a decision about a trip to Taos in February. Involves friends in several different states, also with a couple New Mexico residents. Not feeling like it will happen at the moment.
Have you looked at the Colorado county map? CO is using a county-level approach that's based on more than one metric and has 5-6 colors that go with different pre-defined sets of restrictions for business category capacity limits. A friend is flying to Denver next week to meet up with a local friend for some CO skiing. Same friend went skiing at Hunter last week since they live in a neighboring state to NY so travel restrictions don't apply.
MarzNC-
I am not the biggest fan of Massanutten only due to the fact that it can get pretty crowded at times. The terrain is pretty solid though and I appreciate you giving some tips on how to handle the crowds in the previous posts. Typically if I ski in VA, I usually head to Bryce almost every time as it is a fun little mountain to mess around on. Personally, for me if I am not at Bryce, I love heading out to CV and Timberline!
As for the Indypass, I had it last year and it was awesome. My only reason that I still have yet to purchase is because of COVID. I feel as if I can not plan for my trips way in advance. It is going to be more of the last-minute type of decision. There are a lot of unknowns right now.
marzNC wrote:
nickhaas212 wrote:
More day trips it seems for myself. Bryce is my usual oasis for having fun for a day, but hopefully I can still safely go to CV and Timberline as much as possible as those are my favorite spots out of state in the area. CO, WY, MT, and Canada are out of the question.
With regret, I may end up having to go to Wintergreen this year for mid-week night skiing...... even though the highlands aren't open at night it is better than nothing I guess....
Any particular reason you didn't mention Massanutten at all? It's on the Indy Pass, as is Bryce and CV.
nickhaas212 wrote:
MarzNC-
I am not the biggest fan of Massanutten only due to the fact that it can get pretty crowded at times. The terrain is pretty solid though and I appreciate you giving some tips on how to handle the crowds in the previous posts. Typically if I ski in VA, I usually head to Bryce almost every time as it is a fun little mountain to mess around on. Personally, for me if I am not at Bryce, I love heading out to CV and Timberline!
As for the Indypass, I had it last year and it was awesome. My only reason that I still have yet to purchase is because of COVID. I feel as if I can not plan for my trips way in advance. It is going to be more of the last-minute type of decision. There are a lot of unknowns right now.
Agree that if you are only skiing on weekends, then Bryce probably makes more sense as a day trip from DC than Mnut. Since my drive is 4 hours from Raleigh, I almost always stay at least one night at Mnut and often more. Of course, I'm retired so the time constraint is usually for kids in school and/or friends who are working. Being a Mnut timeshare owner makes a difference too.
I wondered mostly because you said that Winterplace wasn't as busy. When there are lots of groups at Winterplace on weekends, those lift lines can get pretty long. There isn't a way to get away from intermediates if mostly interested in skiing the black trails. I haven't been to Winterplace for years. Was glad it joined Indy.
Agree there is a lot of uncertainty when it comes to skiing out of state.
I actually do my day trips to Bryce from RVA. It really is not a bad drive on 64 West and 81 North to get there. It is also a good place to stay in Woodstock/Bayse before heading on US 48 to the Valley.
When I went to Winter Place it wasn't particularly crowded. But then again being in my 20s with no kids means I can ski midweek when work doesn't get in the way.
That is a good point though that they do bring in a lot of groups.
Being from NC how are Sugar and Beech?
marzNC wrote:
nickhaas212 wrote:
MarzNC-
I am not the biggest fan of Massanutten only due to the fact that it can get pretty crowded at times. The terrain is pretty solid though and I appreciate you giving some tips on how to handle the crowds in the previous posts. Typically if I ski in VA, I usually head to Bryce almost every time as it is a fun little mountain to mess around on. Personally, for me if I am not at Bryce, I love heading out to CV and Timberline!
As for the Indypass, I had it last year and it was awesome. My only reason that I still have yet to purchase is because of COVID. I feel as if I can not plan for my trips way in advance. It is going to be more of the last-minute type of decision. There are a lot of unknowns right now.
Agree that if you are only skiing on weekends, then Bryce probably makes more sense as a day trip from DC than Mnut. Since my drive is 4 hours from Raleigh, I almost always stay at least one night at Mnut and often more. Of course, I'm retired so the time constraint is usually for kids in school and/or friends who are working. Being a Mnut timeshare owner makes a difference too.
I wondered mostly because you said that Winterplace wasn't as busy. When there are lots of groups at Winterplace on weekends, those lift lines can get pretty long. There isn't a way to get away from intermediates if mostly interested in skiing the black trails. I haven't been to Winterplace for years. Was glad it joined Indy.
Agree there is a lot of uncertainty when it comes to skiing out of state.
nickhaas212 wrote:
I actually do my day trips to Bryce from RVA. It really is not a bad drive on 64 West and 81 North to get there. It is also a good place to stay in Woodstock/Bayse before heading on US 48 to the Valley.
When I went to Winter Place it wasn't particularly crowded. But then again being in my 20s with no kids means I can ski midweek when work doesn't get in the way.
That is a good point though that they do bring in a lot of groups.
Being from NC how are Sugar and Beech?
Ah, I'm used to folks here driving to Mnut from DC/NoVA. My daughter had a friend who lived in Charlottesville the winter of the blizzards in Dec and Feb. I drove all sorts of different ways that winter to/from Mnut before and during the snowstorms.
For weekends at Winterplace, the same idea works well of skiing 9:00-12:00 and taking a long lunch, then skiing starting at 3:00 and into the lights. Did that one late season trip with my daughter and another mother and her daughter. We stayed in a cabin at Pipestem State Park. It was so warm that my daughter and I did a trail ride in the afternoon between skiing sessions. The snow was better after it set up after dark. Was quite a fun weekend!
Sugar and Beech are good ski mountains for the region. Both have celebrated 50 years of operations. Both have been adding snowmaking infrastructure all along. Now that Sugar has a good quad lift to the summit, I think they are pretty comparable. Sugar has a few short steeps. The last time I was at Sugar was pretty long ago and during early season so those trails weren't open yet. I hated the lift to the top because it was a 12-min ride on a double. Didn't work well if I was there with two kids under age 8. So I liked Beech better as a slightly closer alternative to making the drive to Mnut. Plus that was before Mnut replaced their old double at the base with a quad on Geronimo.
The Beech mountain road requires AWD/4WD when it snows. Have to drive up to the town of Beech Mountain, then back down, and finally up into the parking lots. Beech Mountain is the highest town in the east, well over 5000 ft.
Sugar actually added a trail in recent years. I've been thinking about driving to Boone in late season to check out Sugar and Beech.
Thanks for the info!
marzNC wrote:
nickhaas212 wrote:
I actually do my day trips to Bryce from RVA. It really is not a bad drive on 64 West and 81 North to get there. It is also a good place to stay in Woodstock/Bayse before heading on US 48 to the Valley.
When I went to Winter Place it wasn't particularly crowded. But then again being in my 20s with no kids means I can ski midweek when work doesn't get in the way.
That is a good point though that they do bring in a lot of groups.
Being from NC how are Sugar and Beech?
Ah, I'm used to folks here driving to Mnut from DC/NoVA. My daughter had a friend who lived in Charlottesville the winter of the blizzards in Dec and Feb. I drove all sorts of different ways that winter to/from Mnut before and during the snowstorms.
For weekends at Winterplace, the same idea works well of skiing 9:00-12:00 and taking a long lunch, then skiing starting at 3:00 and into the lights. Did that one late season trip with my daughter and another mother and her daughter. We stayed in a cabin at Pipestem State Park. It was so warm that my daughter and I did a trail ride in the afternoon between skiing sessions. The snow was better after it set up after dark. Was quite a fun weekend!
Sugar and Beech are good ski mountains for the region. Both have celebrated 50 years of operations. Both have been adding snowmaking infrastructure all along. Now that Sugar has a good quad lift to the summit, I think they are pretty comparable. Sugar has a few short steeps. The last time I was at Sugar was pretty long ago and during early season so those trails weren't open yet. I hated the lift to the top because it was a 12-min ride on a double. Didn't work well if I was there with two kids under age 8. So I liked Beech better as a slightly closer alternative to making the drive to Mnut. Plus that was before Mnut replaced their old double at the base with a quad on Geronimo.
The Beech mountain road requires AWD/4WD when it snows. Have to drive up to the town of Beech Mountain, then back down, and finally up into the parking lots. Beech Mountain is the highest town in the east, well over 5000 ft.
some good news for a change:
but Pitkin County (Aspen) will
mschafe wrote:
Will Timberline be selling single day lift tix or are season passes the only option? The website only offers season passes but it also looks like the website is under as much construction as the resort itself.
Timberline day tickets sold here: timberlinemountain.com
Woody
Now this would be a bummer. You fly to Colorado to get in a few days on snow and then this happens (cause: lack of open terrain due to lack of snow):
“Please note we had to cancel a limited number of guest reservations at Breckenridge as well,” the letter (to Breckenridge ski area employees) stated
https://www.summitdaily.com/news/vail-resorts-cancels-some-guest-reservations-at-breckenridge/
I was actually supposed to be skiing this week at Beaver Creek. I cancelled my reservations in late November (made through BC Central Reservations) and got a full refund (everything was refundable when I made the purchase). The only money I did not get back was a United Airlines flight credit but I should be able to use that before it expires in 12 months.
I hope to make a trip beyond the local area in March depending on how things go. I have not returned my Epic Pass and do not intend to at this point, figuring that if I do not use it, the money spent for this season will roll into next season’s pass. Colorado is still on my radar screen for March because of the weather and snow conditions. If I can’t go into a lodge (except to use the restroom), I want to go to a place where I don’t mind staying outside all day. Vermont can be cold or wet or both in March. It can also be fantastic. It’s also drivable. We’ll see.
Now it appears that the 21/22 season may be in jeopardy, too.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/moderna-ceo-us-needs-to-prepare-for-fall-covid-19-resurgence-202434869.html
As of Monday Positive % has dropped nicely in PA. MD and WV all at 10% or below. The peak of infections is behind the US now. PA 9.9 MD 8.8 WV 9.1
keep on mask, wash and distance
zardog
