Any resort improvements this summer?

Hoping for something at 7S, LM, and TL. 

Has anybody heard any dirt about what Vail may or may not be doing at HV, SS, or LM this summer? So far....crickets. 

I think its fair to say that the lack of capital investment by Vail has been very noticeable when compared to peer resorts like Holiday Valley and Snowshoe.

What gives???

That is the main reasons I went to a Tline and CV pass combo instead of Epic this year lack of communication about changes or improvements at their resorts.  At least CV and Tline continue to invest back in their areas. 

trickshotscott wrote:

Has anybody heard any dirt about what Vail may or may not be doing at HV, SS, or LM this summer? So far....crickets. 

I think its fair to say that the lack of capital investment by Vail has been very noticeable when compared to peer resorts like Holiday Valley and Snowshoe.

What gives???

 I'll keep taking flak on here for being too mean/negative.  It's not surprising at all.  In fact, it's their MO.  Cut it to the bone + sell more season passes. 

There has been a bit of a reckoning in other similar industries as the realities of continued inflation and a stalling economy have impacts on people's discretionary budgets.  We shall see what this upcoming season holds for the ski industry.

trickshotscott wrote:

Has anybody heard any dirt about what Vail may or may not be doing at HV, SS, or LM this summer? So far....crickets. 

I think its fair to say that the lack of capital investment by Vail has been very noticeable when compared to peer resorts like Holiday Valley and Snowshoe.

What gives???

 Leo - from what I have seen at other Vail resorts like Breckenridge, Okemo, Keystone, Mt. Snow and  Stowe, there was quite a bit of investment. However, we certainly haven't seen much here. I think everyone needs to bring this up to Vail.  Look at the condition of the HV ski lodge.  As far as snow making, I understand they had a lot of mechanical issues last year at HV. The main pump that they replaced failed soon after. There were also some major pipe leaks and fan gun failures. The important thing I would say is have they or are they fixing these problems? I think we should ask Brett directly. Also, if Massanutten, a mountain in southern VA can remain 100% open for 50 days, why can't the mountains in the Laurels? M'nut invested alot of money in snow making. If Vail wants to compete locally, they need to do similar. I don't think their operations are bad, but they can be better.  I would imagine they probably lost money last year on the overall PA operations. Liberty, Whitetail and Roundtop has serious challenges keeping snow on those mountains with the impact of climate change.  However, weather patterns are also a major contributor. Resorts in the Mid-west were barely able to open for much of the winter. I figure if California's weather patterns can change to eliminate drought conditions, PA weather patterns can change back to being snowy. I send emails to Vail management with my concerns. And they respond. If they do make improvements, they should market those improvements. 

Leo wrote:

 I'll keep taking flak on here for being too mean/negative.  It's not surprising at all.  In fact, it's their MO.  Cut it to the bone + sell more season passes. 

There has been a bit of a reckoning in other similar industries as the realities of continued inflation and a stalling economy have impacts on people's discretionary budgets.  We shall see what this upcoming season holds for the ski industry.

trickshotscott wrote:

Has anybody heard any dirt about what Vail may or may not be doing at HV, SS, or LM this summer? So far....crickets. 

I think its fair to say that the lack of capital investment by Vail has been very noticeable when compared to peer resorts like Holiday Valley and Snowshoe.

What gives???

At HV, the only "improvements" I've seen in the last 5 years have been improvements to reduce liability.  For example, the deck outside the cafeteria, which. if not rebuilt, would have likely collapsed.  The pines that were planted as a buffer zone between skiers and traffic alongside Gardner...  But even in the liability category, they still have plenty of "slip and fall" issues with the plaza's omni stone cracking up over the years - they've been replacing pieces of stone one by one.   Has anyone even remotely connected to Vail ever been to Hidden Valley?  I honestly don't know.  

I get that the model has changed, where in the past you'd have 70% walk-up lift-ticket sales and 30% season pass.   Today, it's almost the inverse of that, and it's certainly in Vail's best interest to get those season passes racked up aplenty and early in the season. (They certainly enjoy a built-in given number of seasons to be purchased by those who own there (the foundation))  But if they're only going by numbers / data I'm afraid you won't see many well-thought-out improvements at HV.  

Lots of pipe at the top of the main lift at seven springs, some fairly big pipes.

Spoke with someone *very* much in a position to comment. There *is* money for a new lift, maybe 2 years out, certainly by five years out, probably to replace North Face lift. There is a lot of debate about where that lift should drop skiers off. It will be a nice fixed grip 4-seat like the new Avalanche lift.

I told the individual about the deck at Tahoe, which is a disaster and needs treated and the person agreed and will see what they can do. It is pretty frustrating, because a lot of this maintenance and upkeep should be routine. These are not big ticket items, they seem to just be falling through the cracks of a spreadsheet.

Maybe a few of us can make get together and make a prioritized list of "requests from skiers and resort enthusiasts" to pass along to Brett Cook and others. They might even agree to have a sit down with us. I read this forum avidly (thank you Scott) and the points made are valid, but couched in negative terms that will not resonate where we need them to resonate. BTW, those folks *do* read these boards, but they are very strongly prohibited from commenting or posting here (all of that has to go through their media operations). Maybe people higher up the food chain like Laurel Hill Crazy could spearhead this. I think that it is time to stop the adhoc complaints and organize them coherently. 

I don't mean to be a curmudgeon.  I know some boots on the ground people at HV very well, they certainly aren't executives for Vail but they are important in the day to day operations at the resort.  And most of them care about the resort more than I do.  And they're great people.

However, with that said, it's not my job to tell Vail how to run their resorts.  Their BOD and shareholders (indirectly) should be doing that.  Heck, I might unwittingly be a shareholder through my 401K. 

Unfortunately, it's barely an industry where we can vote with our dollars and feet, which is normally my preference.  Meaning: for those of us in and around Western PA it's basically a monopoly.  I can't easily go ski at a non-Vail resort without significant travel time.    

They know they have me over a barrel.  I already have my 2025 passes.  The only way the needle moves is if the casual skiers stop coming.  And I'm not even sure that would be enough of an impact to initiate real change.

making up for lost time wrote:

Maybe a few of us can make get together and make a prioritized list of "requests from skiers and resort enthusiasts" to pass along to Brett Cook and others. They might even agree to have a sit down with us. I read this forum avidly (thank you Scott) and the points made are valid, but couched in negative terms that will not resonate where we need them to resonate. BTW, those folks *do* read these boards, but they are very strongly prohibited from commenting or posting here (all of that has to go through their media operations). Maybe people higher up the food chain like Laurel Hill Crazy could spearhead this. I think that it is time to stop the adhoc complaints and organize them coherently. 

Sorry it took a bit to reply. I'm afraid I never was that high on the food chain. I'm just a persistent loudmouth. My contacts within the state parks are now nil. Unfortunately, the 7S manager I worked most closely with passed away. 

The last few years the type of improvements I've advocated should be doable under their present operating budget. Last season for Laurel, I asked that all the natural snow trails and slopes be mowed and deadfall in the glades be removed. That should be a no-brainer but for years the only maintenance done on those trails was done by my volunteer groups. Last season all the trails were mowed but the glades still need attention. Laurel needs more snowmaking. That is a huge investment if you consider that half the mountain doesn't have the infrastructure to support snowmaking. We are talking millions of dollars. Right now that doesn't appear likely given the volume of visits needed to justify that expense. However, trails like Lincoln Highway might be covered with existing infrastructure from nearby Innsbruck and Broadway. It would require more ground guns, hoses, and labor. 

As for 7S, I'm not sure they got Giant Steps open at all last season. Perhaps we should start there. I always thought the North Face slope was the best terrain on the backside but it is underutilized. Most backside skiers stick to the Gunner six-pack and when Giant Steps isn't available, that's a lot of traffic for the rest of the terrain. A new North Face lift would encourage greater use, but given the masses' love of high-speed lifts, a new fixed grip might be ignored. 

I haven't skied HV for many years but that may change this season. I now have a grandson to teach.

I think LM could benefit from some added portable fan guns. Like you indicated, Lincoln Hwy could be covered. Perhaps Hegan’s Cut and maybe Laurel Run could also be opened with fan gun snow. Maybe other Vail owned resorts, as they replace older fan guns with newer models, could send the refurbished hand-me-downs to LM.

i think LM did an excellent job keeping snow on the main trails last season. Hopefully, they do the same this year.