Real estate at Snowshoe, WV seems to have over doubled since 2018 in value. It seems very unaffordable especially for someone looking to invest in rental properties.
Does anyone have any insight to the future for this market?
I would say that before anyone considers investing in property at a ski resort, be sure you thoroughly understand the impact of HOA and other fees and how those increase in the future. And understand seasonal rental patterns, how much money it costs to place properties in rental programs, etc. When you factor all of this in, you might realize that these often aren't the kinds of investments you can expect a long-term return on -- they're a money sink. If you're using it yourself and getting enjoyment out of having your own property, that might be OK. But I've heard from quite a few people over the years that took a huge loss dumping resort properties - they bought into the hope that they would be investments that would pay for themselves, and that's often not the case. Also, consider the impact things like climate change might have on resorts. Snowshoe is a year-round resort and has the highest elevation of any nearby ski area, so those are points going in its favor. Even so, we can have very mild winters in this region that can absolutely gut rentals that would historically yield the highest nightly rates. And there are a lot of "beds" available at Snowshoe so the vast majority are going to sit empty most of the year.
I've been covering this for awhile (hearing candidly from both skiers who have bought these properties as well as the resort developers building them or profiting from their inclusion in rental programs), and have never felt an urge to buy a resort property myself. But that's just my personal feeling. Others who have done this will have their own firsthand experiences to share.
In any case, if you feel the market is overheated and prices are high, they probably are. Never good to buy at a peak. But if I knew how to call a peak or predict the next downturn, my bank account would have a few more decimal places, so take my opinion for what it's worth.
Brian2109 wrote:
Real estate at Snowshoe, WV seems to have over doubled since 2018 in value. It seems very unaffordable especially for someone looking to invest in rental properties.
Does anyone have any insight to the future for this market?
I bought resale in 2015 in expedition. While I’m not a real estate expert the original owners in 2007 paid around 170% of what it worth now even with the changes since 2020.
In short snowshoe still hasn’t full recovered from the 2008ish housing market crash. Take that for what you will.
A similar topic (although the inverse... right before prices skyrocketed). Personally, I wish I had taken the plunge and bought when I posted this thread give my cost basis for the house + low mortgage rate would have allowed me to break even or make a bit of a profit on annual rentals if I owned it today + I would have a second house to enjoy when I want it.
With prices now high + mortgage rates still relatively high vs. a few years ago, I can't imagine buying a rental property today and achieving positive cash flow.
dcski.com (T-Line investing in 2019)
Absolutely agree, there alot of variables. Snowshoe has a long off season between the Winter and Summer start up for the golf/ mountain biking season. And visa versa between Summer and Winter start up. Plus with Allegheny Springs being primary check-in during the off-season, rentals in Allegheny may see more activity than other locations in the Village.
I worked at Stratton with the condo program there before Intrawest (Alterra) built across the street from main Village. Winter rentals do make income but keep in mind unit size and location will effect your income. During the Summer months 1 and 2 bdrm units rented well where the bigger units did not. Of course they had more offerings with a golf and tennis schools and golf course and now mountain biking.
As mentioned HOA and rental pool costs definitely play into your income especially if there amenities associated with your location. With Snowshoe, location is key in early season openings at Snowshoe. It would interesting to know if the income under Brigham program is more than standard rental program. Definitely do your homework before purchasing. Good luck!
I can provide insight generically about buying a ski country condo and using it as an STR. I bought in Breckenridge in 1997 and did not break even on cash flow for 20 years, but that was OK because we were using the place and could store our gear there. Plus there were tax write offs.
1) You need someone to manage the place for you. My fee was 40% and then the company could deduct expenses (credit card fees, fees from Travelocity, et all, repairs, etc) My take was never more than 50% of gross rental income.
2) Property taxes, city fees, HOA fees, insurance, utilities, mortgage all add up.
3) Then there is general upkeep and modernization that will be required to keep the place rentable.
In general I had a tax loss about every year of the first 20 - which I could write off myr taxes as long as my gross income was less than $150k (you lose 50 cents of deductibility for every dollar of income over 100k)
I bought when things were cheap. I can't imagine trying to make things work at today's real estate prices.
The good news for me is the place is now worth 700% of what I paid for it.
Good points, Bob.
As a side note, when I worked in Vail, one of our condo owners at Lionsquare Lodge purchased their 3bdrm unit back in the early 70's for $69, 000 ski in ski out at the base of Lionshead. They sold the unit in the Summer of 1999 for 1.2 million which was probably a good thing. The whole property had a major renovation to match the look of Arrabelle after it was built. Catching an investment early or at the right time is key, it have it benefits.
A good example are all homes and condos sold after the Timberline closed and prior to the purchase by the Perfects. Alot of the units sold for cheap during that time and they have double or tripled in value since they reopened.
bob wrote:
I can provide insight generically about buying a ski country condo and using it as an STR. I bought in Breckenridge in 1997 and did not break even on cash flow for 20 years, but that was OK because we were using the place and could store our gear there. Plus there were tax write offs.
1) You need someone to manage the place for you. My fee was 40% and then the company could deduct expenses (credit card fees, fees from Travelocity, et all, repairs, etc) My take was never more than 50% of gross rental income.
2) Property taxes, city fees, HOA fees, insurance, utilities, mortgage all add up.
3) Then there is general upkeep and modernization that will be required to keep the place rentable.
In general I had a tax loss about every year of the first 20 - which I could write off myr taxes as long as my gross income was less than $150k (you lose 50 cents of deductibility for every dollar of income over 100k)
I bought when things were cheap. I can't imagine trying to make things work at today's real estate prices.
The good news for me is the place is now worth 700% of what I paid for it.
