I'm not sure if it's just me but it really feels like Whitetail is moving in reverse. I was on the mountain this weekend and there are a few key changes that I think are worse for the mountain.

1. Abandoning the jib junction chair lift. I'm not sure what prompted this but I feel like this is a step backwards for the mountain. I remember when they put that in it felt like such a huge leap forward. It provided a lift that allowed the park riders to run laps without ever hitting the base area. This worked on so many levels. It kept traffic off the Express lift. It kept the park riders in the park which kept traffic off Upper Angel and elsewhere in the mountain. It acted as a separation between park riders and less experienced mountain users which is not a bad thing. Personally I also liked using this lift to run short laps as the morning crowds built up on the Express lift. 

2. They completely did away with the park on Lower Angel drop and have now relegated it to that little side space off Snow Park. Last weekend they had snow features on Sidewinder. For all the reasons the I think having the park and a dedicated lift on Angel Drop was a good idea, this seems like a terrible idea. You're mixing two very distinct ability levels on trails that should ideally be separated for both their sakes. Park riders blasting down Snow Park to get in and out of the park mixing with inexperienced skiers and riders seems like a bad idea and probably is a worse experience for both parties. In turn you have more of a chance of inexperienced riders rolling through the park putting themselves and others at a higher risk of injury.

This is close to the setup Whitetail had back in the early 2000's but it felt like the changes they made in moving things over to Lower Angel Drop were always a step in the right direction and these current changes seem to be moving things backwards.   

Vail does not care about parks.  Park skiers are often local and do not spend the big bucks on western ski vacations which is Vail's whole business model.  See also Big Boulder which used to be basically all parks as a counterpart to Jack Frost.

While they have some small features at Roundtop I did not see any of ther larger jump buildout like they had done in the past.  In fact I dont think there were any jumps at all, just boxes and rails.  Meanwhile the busiest area on the whole mountain was the terrain park J bar.  Does Liberty still have their T bar? Maybe they can relocate an old handle tow or J/T bar to whitetail sometime which I'm sure has astronomically less overhead than a chairlift.

Liberty pulled that surface J bar before last season, I was told for cost reduction associated with the needed staffing (top and bottom attendants required).

Lots of resorts are installing handle tows that are self-serve and don't need staffing.  But not Vail.

I disagree. 

Plenty of skiers use the park as well. And most park riders aren’t asking for enormous jumps that require a lot of snow.

Big Boulders best aspects before Vail were the rails and boxes that really didn’t take much snow to install. Just set them up in a nice flowy way and it will keeps the park riders busy. If mom and pop areas in PA/Va can built jumps than vail can afford it too. 

BTW: wildcat in NH still only has one route open top to bottom. 

As a long time skier, I had warmed up to parks in the 2000s with back then a fresh new pair of K2 Public Enemy twins. No issues with parks, snowboarders, freestyle skiers for me. And I'm essentially a traditional alpine dude.  I really believe its all about staffing.  At hidden valley, doesn't look like Vail will pay for a decent sized park crew. So we are stuck with a few boxes and other features. They have add'l boxes and features stored and sideliened - not using them.  Park area was double the size 10 years ago.

That said, if you want a lot of features, 7S has the Alley, which is admittedly crowded and dangerous IMHO as it is filled with people with vastly different abilities ping ponging around one another.

danimals wrote:

I disagree. 

Plenty of skiers use the park as well. And most park riders aren’t asking for enormous jumps that require a lot of snow.

Big Boulders best aspects before Vail were the rails and boxes that really didn’t take much snow to install. Just set them up in a nice flowy way and it will keeps the park riders busy. If mom and pop areas in PA/Va can built jumps than vail can afford it too. 

BTW: wildcat in NH still only has one route open top to bottom. 

Sorry if I came across anti-park, I do enjoy a good jump build myself and would appreciate bigger buildouts at the Vail areas like they used to get, for everyone's sake.

At this point Spring Mountain has a better park build than any Vail area in the state I am aware of which should be embarrassing on Vails part.  And Bear Creek probably is the leading park area.

abeski wrote:

Sorry if I came across anti-park, I do enjoy a good jump build myself and would appreciate bigger buildouts at the Vail areas like they used to get, for everyone's sake.

At this point Spring Mountain has a better park build than any Vail area in the state I am aware of which should be embarrassing on Vails part.  And Bear Creek probably is the leading park area.

I see spring mountain really stepped their game up this year with their parks. I wonder if they hired some of peak resorts old park guys? I know the park manager that was at big boulder and made big boulder what it was is now at kissing bridge hoping to do the same there.  A rope tow park is an absolute gem and more mountains should do the same. It’s a big part of why the Midwest produces so many incredible professional riders. Spring is also the closest mountain to me, however I couldn’t swing a pass there. Im almost 40 so while I still like to hit the park a few times a day, I couldn’t do it all day.

I never used the park.  But having a lift dedicated to it kept a lot of traffic off of Angel Drop.  

So whether you used the park, all skiers and boarders are being affected by this.