Steepness
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wgo
3 days ago (edited 3 days ago)
Member since 02/10/2004 🔗
1,691 posts

Came across the following site:

steepseeker.com

Seems pretty comprehensive. I found a good discussion on a reddit thread here: 

reddit.com

From this thread, here is where the data comes from:

   "I query an API for the USGS NED 10 dataset for each trail point and use OpenStreetMaps"

There is a "difficulty rating" that takes several factors into account but I am not sure of the exact details. The idea is to provide a single rating that allows for comparison across different resorts.


wgo
3 days ago
Member since 02/10/2004 🔗
1,691 posts

Here is the list for the Southeast:

steepseeker.com

1737987186_jkhrkdjadbtv.jpg

Stephen
3 days ago
Member since 02/16/2024 🔗
47 posts

I like that.  I was using FATMAP which went dark and wondering how Slot fits in.  These numbers look pretty accurate to me.  Overall though despite the numbers, I would change a few rankings.  I guess Upper Mak Attack is more often ungroomed than other trails, but in years where there are often moguls, I would rank it The Drop, Off The Wall, Knot Bumper, Cliffhanger, Outer Limits, then Upper Mak Attack.  I'd also clearly put Slot higher than Mak Attack.  This is why No Hessitation is such a welcome addition to Mass.

This also makes me curious about NC.  I've only skied there once long ago.  Boone area is such a neat place, but not thought about much.  I can't bring myself to drive South for skiing.

Bonzski
3 days ago
Member since 10/21/2015 🔗
663 posts


 Note they ranked Knot Bumper Glades, a much difference experience that the typical moguls on KB trail. Not sure the pitch is much different though. I wonder if they're #s are for KB.

Stephen wrote:

I like that.  I was using FATMAP which went dark and wondering how Slot fits in.  These numbers look pretty accurate to me.  Overall though despite the numbers, I would change a few rankings.  I guess Upper Mak Attack is more often ungroomed than other trails, but in years where there are often moguls, I would rank it The Drop, Off The Wall, Knot Bumper, Cliffhanger, Outer Limits, then Upper Mak Attack.  I'd also clearly put Slot higher than Mak Attack.  This is why No Hessitation is such a welcome addition to Mass.

This also makes me curious about NC.  I've only skied there once long ago.  Boone area is such a neat place, but not thought about much.  I can't bring myself to drive South for skiing.

Stephen
3 days ago
Member since 02/16/2024 🔗
47 posts

They have KB below Widowmaker, Hangover, Wild Turkey, Camp 99, Cupp Run, Devil's Elbow, Upper Sunrise, and Main Street.  None of which I'd agree with.  

Bonzski wrote:


 Note they ranked Knot Bumper Glades, a much difference experience that the typical moguls on KB trail. Not sure the pitch is much different though. I wonder if they're #s are for KB.

Stephen wrote:

I like that.  I was using FATMAP which went dark and wondering how Slot fits in.  These numbers look pretty accurate to me.  Overall though despite the numbers, I would change a few rankings.  I guess Upper Mak Attack is more often ungroomed than other trails, but in years where there are often moguls, I would rank it The Drop, Off The Wall, Knot Bumper, Cliffhanger, Outer Limits, then Upper Mak Attack.  I'd also clearly put Slot higher than Mak Attack.  This is why No Hessitation is such a welcome addition to Mass.

This also makes me curious about NC.  I've only skied there once long ago.  Boone area is such a neat place, but not thought about much.  I can't bring myself to drive South for skiing.

wgo
3 days ago (edited 3 days ago)
Member since 02/10/2004 🔗
1,691 posts


I came accross the site while looking for something to take the place of FATMAP. I actually did not realize until a couple days ago that FATMAP is no more.

For those interested, looks like the source code for SteepSeeker is on github:

https://github.com/joshua-coppola/steep-seeker

 

Stephen wrote:

I like that.  I was using FATMAP which went dark and wondering how Slot fits in.  

wgo
3 days ago
Member since 02/10/2004 🔗
1,691 posts
I am not sure how the ranking algorithm works - how much weight is given to the presence of moguls, how the algorithm actually "decides" if a run is a mogul run, etc. If I ever have time I may peruse the source code for clues. I think the person who built the site is also active on reddit.
Stephen
3 days ago
Member since 02/16/2024 🔗
47 posts
I think these types of measurements are good for sustained slopes, but they don't capture short steep sections too well.  Ten very steep mogul turns can substantially change how a slope feels.
pagamony - DCSki Supporter 
2 days ago (edited 2 days ago)
Member since 02/23/2005 🔗
937 posts
For sure there are some factors not well represented in the Difficulty score, but this is still a great list for conversation and maybe even trip planning (though I agree with the premise ... never travel south to ski). 

I think I have skied 13 on this list. Some are surprising, like I don't remember any issue with Meadow Glades, did not know Gunther's run was so steep, Turkey Shoot is 100x more difficult than Nose Dive, etc... but that's all for beer time. In general for a steeper slope, I think conditions make all the difference, which vary throughout the season.  

@stephen, I think slope ratings generally take into account the steepest section.  Note the long green stretch of Shay's does not affect its difficulty. This is actually in the Forest Service specifications, though I don't know if anyone follows those. 

Stephen
2 days ago
Member since 02/16/2024 🔗
47 posts

I think that's right, though I don't think the slopes of the short sections are as accurate.  When comparing long slopes out west it's probably pretty good, but many of our mid Atlantic slopes only have a few turns in the steep sections, so it's easy to mess up the comparisons if those slopes are inaccurate.  I don't think the original data is that precise to begin with, and then where they start and stop the slope measurement has a big effect along with how they build up the snowpack, especially if it's flat approaching the drop off like Knot Bumper.

Just as a general aside, many would say it doesn't matter at that point, but I find the comparisons helpful to figure out if I've improved or not, and a lot of the fun is about getting better.  The skiing experience is better as I improve, and it's fun to work towards a goal.  This is also why I do POV video.  Looking at POV across the season, it's hard to differentiate between improvements and conditions, but looking back many years it's neat to see the clear evolution as technique improved.  Also, sometimes I can see that I've headed down the wrong path and course adjust.

pagamony wrote:

@stephen, I think slope ratings generally take into account the steepest section.  Note the long green stretch of Shay's does not affect its difficulty. This is actually in the Forest Service specifications, though I don't know if anyone follows those. 

pagamony - DCSki Supporter 
2 days ago
Member since 02/23/2005 🔗
937 posts

Anyone else still remember when KB had that cornice drop coular entry, which itself was worth the price of admission?  That was 10m of fun.

I totally agree with Stephen that it is more difficult to measure steep over a short range.  My first thought was 30m, are you kidding me?  And then I saw Whoop is the only 100m diamond.  Really?   

So overall, what do we think is the most difficult marked slope in the region ?   I note that PA was not included in the list above but obviously has some contenders.  I have to consider Tukey Shoot just cause it can have those crazy diaganol ice rut 'moguls', or maybe that Sawmill 'glade' that always looks to me like a sheet of rock hard ice with big frozen hardwood trees in it, like a pinball course.  It is all about conditions!

Stephen wrote:

I think that's right, though I don't think the slopes of the short sections are as accurate.  When comparing long slopes out west it's probably pretty good, but many of our mid Atlantic slopes only have a few turns in the steep sections, so it's easy to mess up the comparisons if those slopes are inaccurate.  I don't think the original data is that precise to begin with, and then where they start and stop the slope measurement has a big effect along with how they build up the snowpack, especially if it's flat approaching the drop off like Knot Bumper.

Just as a general aside, many would say it doesn't matter at that point, but I find the comparisons helpful to figure out if I've improved or not, and a lot of the fun is about getting better.  The skiing experience is better as I improve, and it's fun to work towards a goal.  This is also why I do POV video.  Looking at POV across the season, it's hard to differentiate between improvements and conditions, but looking back many years it's neat to see the clear evolution as technique improved.  Also, sometimes I can see that I've headed down the wrong path and course adjust.

pagamony wrote:

@stephen, I think slope ratings generally take into account the steepest section.  Note the long green stretch of Shay's does not affect its difficulty. This is actually in the Forest Service specifications, though I don't know if anyone follows those. 

Stephen
2 days ago
Member since 02/16/2024 🔗
47 posts

With the exception of the NC slopes which I can't speak about, don't believe (curious),  I agree with the chart, Lower Shay's Revenge. 

pagamony wrote:


So overall, what do we think is the most difficult marked slope in the region ?   

pagamony - DCSki Supporter 
2 days ago
Member since 02/23/2005 🔗
937 posts
Someone else jump in!  If not, I can say that in my limited experience, Boulder Dash and/or it's twin Tom Terrific have a steep drop but then flatten to regular steep pretty quickly for a few turns before merging, and often icy conditions.  Whoop is indeed steeper longer and sometimes moguled, but wider and less interesting I think.  Low-Shay feels steeper much longer and also with variable conditions.
wgo
2 days ago
Member since 02/10/2004 🔗
1,691 posts

I remember the KB cornice....2017? That was a lot of fun.

Overall I agree with the list, although I never know how where gladed runs fit it. And not having any of the Penn. runs excludes some good ones. But it is good to see The Face at Wisp get some props.

AndyGene
8 hours ago
Member since 09/9/2013 🔗
230 posts
Im curious about how steep Upper Gun Barrel at Roundtop is.  To me it "felt" steeper than lower shays revenge.  But that may be because it was so skinny.
wgo
9 minutes ago (edited 9 minutes ago)
Member since 02/10/2004 🔗
1,691 posts

Upper Gunbarrel is 34 degrees for the first 30 meters of the run, per the website above.

1738292179_nvxmeftkgdbm.jpg

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