I’ve rented winter houses at Old Timberline in the past.
I've been using a 2020 Sienna with AWD and Firestone Weathergrip all season tires. I once had a Rav4, and the Sienna is better. I would not get a Prius, though I haven't driven one in the snow. AWD is enough. Theoretically, one tire should be able to pull you with AWD, which is the best that you can do, though some AWD systems don't end up doing that, but Toyota is pretty good. 4WD just means power to all wheels, and that isn't enough, because if one tire slips you're stuck. To get the best traction you have to have locking differentials or limited slip differentials or electronic traction control. Basic 4WD has a front and back differential and a center differential that allows the tires to move at different speeds when going around curves, but the consequence is that only one tire has to spin, and all the other tires won't move. To fix this, many 4WD systems allow you to lock the differentials. In some old cars you'd have to get out of the car to do it. If all differentials are locked, then it only takes one tire to pull the car. This would be the best to keep from getting stuck, but then there are problems going around curves or going fast, so you'd only use locked differentials when going slowly when there is snow to allow tires to slip when going around curves. Since it's better not to have the tires slip, since static friction is better than kinetic friction, the best is if you get all the functionality of the differentials, but decrease the slip in the differentials when there's loss of traction, and that's basically what AWD does. How much differential slip and when is what makes some AWD systems better than others. Once the tires start slipping, you'll have less traction, so with completely locked differentials it can be better, because it doesn't take slipping to trigger the lock, but on the other hand you'll have better traction going around curves with limited slip differentials which improves safety. It's better to be stuck and not be able to move than lose traction going around a curve. Also, with limited slip, you don't have to decide when the conditions require you to turn it off to avoid damaging the car. My Rav4 had a mode where you could do 4WD lock. It didn't make that much difference, a little sometimes. My Sienna doesn't have that mode, but I'd say the Sienna is better than the RAV4 with the lock.
Tires will make the most difference vs. AWD system, then car weight and clearance. With good tires, the limiting factors for the Rav4 and Sienna are clearance. I have been in situations where that's keeping me from moving. I had a great powder day at Timberline where I was just barely able to move with the Sienna, because of clearance. If you expect to drive when there will regularly be snowplows working the road, then the Sienna will be excellent, but if you need to ride on a road that the plows won't touch, and you don't want to wait it out, then I would get a vehicle with more clearance like a Tacoma. Clearance and weight are reasons why I think the Prius wouldn't be useful enough for me.
Sarabeth wrote:
We’ve been renting cars for ski trips for the past few years, but we’re going to buy one before next season. We mostly go to Timberline, and stay in our cabin in Old Timberline (on the flatter side, not up the mountain), so there can be significant snow and we’re on dirt roads for the last few miles. We also do an occasional road trip to VT. Debating what car to get. Whatever we get, we will put snow tires on for the winter. Prefer Toyotas, currently looking at:Prius Prime (with AWD)Rav4 Prime.Sienna (with AWD)Questions we’re debating:Is AWD enough or should we be looking at 4WDHow much ground clearance do we need?Will they hassle us at the gate to Old Timberline if we’re in a Prius? (I should probably call and ask about this one)Would also welcome other suggestions!
I had a Subaru Outback (4wd) from 2013 to 2024, then I got a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid (AWD). Outback with snow tires was quite excellent in the snow. Rav4 with snow tires is also quite good in snow, if not perhaps quite as un-slippable as the Outback. I cross the US at least twice a year and the Rav4 Hybrid is much nicer to drive than the Outback, but I had a base model Outback and the Rav4 has a few options. Rav4 has much more power/acceleration and comfortable ride over long distances. Old Outback was a slug, but very good in snow.
Agree with the others, if you want the best traction and safest feeling in serious snow conditions, then go to the trouble to get snow tires. In fact, my Dad had RWD cars back in the 70s - 90s that we drove frequently to ski areas. He ran them with snow tires in winter and they were better than modern 4wd cars I've had without snow tires.
I've been happy with a RAV4 Prime AWD since the winter of 2020-21. Have driven in snowy conditions in WV and Colorado.
Rented a 4WD RAV4 once for Taos. Took it up onto the very snowy road and parking lot at Pajarito. Based on that experience, I'm happier with AWD.
A friend has had a Sienna AWD for several years. She lives in Boston. Goes skiing in New England pretty often.
As a "ski car" I wouldn't want a Prius. So much easier to load gear and stuff an SUV or minivan. I drove a minivan for 15 years before changing to the RAV4. Drove it in snow a few times in New England. Not what I wanted for ski trips or long distance drives in general after there wasn't any reason to need the space of a minivan.
Contrarian view from someone who lived in Vermont: if you get a modern AWD SUV that has electronic torque adjustments ("vectoring") and different mode adjustments you don't need snow tires.
Reasoning: a good quality all season radial tire works relatively well on snow covered roads to begin with (which is why front wheel cars do surprisingly well in the snow).
Modern AWD systems increase that traction by monitoring and adjusting torque at each wheel while you are driving. Would snow tires improve that traction further? Yes, some, but when driving to West Virginia on just weekends how often will you be on snow covered roads? It snowed more than two inches 23 days this past winter in CV.
Snow tires with rims and the cost of changing twice a year is a decent investment. Would be a different calculation if you were driving in the high country in Wyoming or Montana etc.
Agree with this one. In fact, the best compromise is an all-weather tire with the 'triple snow peak' rating. Good for summer and eastern winters. Full-on snow tires would be fine if one lived in Davis, but it's overkill for going back and forth to someplace like DC, and snows aren't great in the rain and when it starts to warm up.
I've bombed around TLine and Snowshoe for years with these kinds of tires and a good AWD system (FWD for while too) and never had any issues even in the worst of storms.
I keep emergency snow tire cables in the trunk just in case (and a shovel), but I've never had to use them.
RodneyBD wrote:
Contrarian view from someone who lived in Vermont: if you get a modern AWD SUV that has electronic torque adjustments ("vectoring") and different mode adjustments you don't need snow tires.
Reasoning: a good quality all season radial tire works relatively well on snow covered roads to begin with (which is why front wheel cars do surprisingly well in the snow).
Modern AWD systems increase that traction by monitoring and adjusting torque at each wheel while you are driving. Would snow tires improve that traction further? Yes, some, but when driving to West Virginia on just weekends how often will you be on snow covered roads? It snowed more than two inches 23 days this past winter in CV.
Snow tires with rims and the cost of changing twice a year is a decent investment. Would be a different calculation if you were driving in the high country in Wyoming or Montana etc.
Snow tires generally not needed getting to CV, but often very useful getting around the valley, especially in parking lots, driveways, side roads. I’ve had to plow through foot deep plus snow numerous times in my 15 or so years up there. Need depends upon how hard core you are - I was up there during numerous big pow stretches, and to get first tracks, you often can’t wait for roads to be clear. And have come back to a foot or so in the parking lot during epic days. I won’t drive in blizzards though, too dangerous.
I realize numerous poor seasons in the valley recently, so need may be diminished. A lot depends upon how core you are.
RAV4 is redesigned for 2026. May want to check it out.
I've done really well with the Michelin CrossClimate 2s on my Escape AWD. It's arguably the best all-season on the market and gets really good reviews. I haven't gotten stuck with them yet and they've held up really well. They can be pricey though.
I'm replacing it with a 26 Camry AWD in the next couple months. I'll put the CC2s on again once I burn thru the OEM tires.
One thing with AWD, if you find yourself slipping, turn off the traffic control. I got stuck in the lot off of Lost Boy at 7S before I got the current tires. One of the guys helping push told me to turn that off and it made a huge difference. Keep that in mind if you find yourself stuck.
Yeah, I was a bit hesitant to get them at first as they were pretty expensive. The reviews were hard to ignore and I bit the bullet. It was well worth it. Definitely a case of you get what you pay for.
I'm about to hit 50k miles on them and they're still in decent shape. They've worn very well.
CrossClimate 2’s are my non snow tires. I got them in May, and have been very happy with them so far. I’ll be using them in Vermont, until just after Thanksgiving. Then will drive across just about the entire northern US, so I want something decent in all but the worst snow.
I live in Northern Idaho now, at a latitude north of Quebec City. Crazy how far north the 49th parallel is… Out here, altitude is everything. I live at 2k feet, very little snow at house level last winter, except for a 10 day stretch. But not a typical winter. Driveway snow melted by the afternoon. But a 25 minute drive up to the ski area, they got 300 inches of snow. I felt I needed snow tires more during 15 or so winters in WV, than last winter in ID. Go figure.
When I really needed snow tires the most, was driving the red snake of death, up and down the Utah Cottonwood Canyons (SLC) at 2 mph. The two winters prior to last. I actually would have preferred studded snow tires those two winters, if not for a cross country drive to/from. But wouldn’t have needed snow tires if I just drove in the city.
superguy wrote:
How do chains compare to studded winter tires?
You don’t have to stop to put on/take off chains. And you can drive faster. And don’t have to worry about chains breaking.
But, studs are illegal in a few states, and restricted to certain months in others. And damage the road and are not the greatest for dry pavement or hard breaking. Really only for frequent driving in extreme winter conditions.
superguy wrote:
Would you keep them handy with snow tires, say to up one of the Cottonwoods or into the Sierras?
Yes I would in areas like those. When they get crazy storms they require chains be used.
In the mountains of WV and PA, I don’t think chains are needed. I guess it can’t hurt to have them just in case, but not instead of winter tires.
.... but then when you follow the tracks of that Silverado that just pushed and compacted that fresh snow, if you have less clearance, it's over, especially if it's refrozen harder. We can talk for days about all the different ski conditions and likewise road conditions.
kwillg6 wrote:
I have lived in the valley for 8 years and have driven to and from for over another 30. Snow tires, although recommended, are not necessary. We have owned 4WD, Front Wheel Drive, and AWD. Our choice is the Outback with an aggressive, all-weather tread. Never a problem, but then again, experience makes a difference. If it's deep snow, 12+ inches, it's not necessarily ground clearance; it's vehicle weight, and knowing your vehicle's limitations. My 4WD Silverado can bust through deeper snow, but again, you need to know how to navigate hills and turns. Driving downhill is the most dangerous part of winter driving. Stay off the brakes! Only bad things will happen if you lose control while going down.
Hope we get an update from the original poster? I think if she goes with a Rav4 or a Sienna with snow tires she'll be golden for frequent winter trips to Canaan Valley and occasional trips to VT. If she's a little bit of a gambler, then a set of good all-season radials ought to work 95% of the time. It's that 5% you gotta watch out for.
For 50 years I drove just about any car I wanted with regular tires to numerous Mid-Atlantic ski areas and was fortunate to experience only a few treacherous/slippery experiences, but I was able to cherry pick my travel days for the most part. If you're truly committed to commuting most winter weekends to a snowy area like Canaan Valley, you'll probably get peace of mind with snow tires. My Dad made the choice to run with snow tires during our regular winter weekend commutes from DC to Blue Knob in the 1970s and 80s.
Once I started driving to Utah and spending the winters there in recent years I made the choice to get snow tires on my car. I've driven through some insane western stuff (blizzards, white-outs, interstate closures, access road gridlock at 8,500', etc.) in the last decade and the snows have saved my a$$ :-)
JimK wrote:
For 50 years I drove just about any car I wanted with regular tires to numerous Mid-Atlantic ski areas and was fortunate to experience only a few treacherous/slippery experiences, but I was able to cherry pick my travel days for the most part. If you're truly committed to commuting most winter weekends to a snowy area like Canaan Valley, you'll probably get peace of mind with snow tires. My Dad made the choice to run with snow tires during our regular winter weekend commutes from DC to Blue Knob in the 1970s and 80s.
Once I started driving to Utah and spending the winters there in recent years I made the choice to get snow tires on my car. I've driven through some insane western stuff (blizzards, white-outs, interstate closures, access road gridlock at 8,500', etc.) in the last decade and the snows have saved my a$$ :-)
Do you make the drive out to SLC with the snow tires? Or do you put them on in SLC?
I've been driving to Colorado in December for an early season trip meeting up with friends to ski Wolf Creek. Got the better all-weather tires for my AWD RAV4 and that's been okay so far. Have caught a couple of snowstorms in Colorado but never during the drive between NC and CO. Have also been driving to WV in mid-January and have ended up driving on snow.
I put on the snow tires before I head west, usually in January. I've come rely on them for the cross country drive and they've proven to be very valuable. They are a little bit of a liability for the drive back east, usually May or June, but no problems.
marzNC wrote:
JimK wrote:
For 50 years I drove just about any car I wanted with regular tires to numerous Mid-Atlantic ski areas and was fortunate to experience only a few treacherous/slippery experiences, but I was able to cherry pick my travel days for the most part. If you're truly committed to commuting most winter weekends to a snowy area like Canaan Valley, you'll probably get peace of mind with snow tires. My Dad made the choice to run with snow tires during our regular winter weekend commutes from DC to Blue Knob in the 1970s and 80s.
Once I started driving to Utah and spending the winters there in recent years I made the choice to get snow tires on my car. I've driven through some insane western stuff (blizzards, white-outs, interstate closures, access road gridlock at 8,500', etc.) in the last decade and the snows have saved my a$$ :-)
Do you make the drive out to SLC with the snow tires? Or do you put them on in SLC?
I've been driving to Colorado in December for an early season trip meeting up with friends to ski Wolf Creek. Got the better all-weather tires for my AWD RAV4 and that's been okay so far. Have caught a couple of snowstorms in Colorado but never during the drive between NC and CO. Have also been driving to WV in mid-January and have ended up driving on snow.
JimK wrote:
I put on the snow tires before I head west, usually in January. I've come rely on them for the cross country drive and they've proven to be very valuable. They are a little bit of a liability for the drive back east, usually May or June, but no problems.
Good to know. Thanks!
Snow tires all the way - given controlled speeds, they do the trick every time. Just swap them for typical tires after the season. Now - I say that, but I've been doing Laurel Highlands on all-weathers for the last couple of years. No problem on a Subaru Forester or a Honda CR-V. On less-worthy vehicles I'd use snow tires. Also, we haven't had huge snow dumps in the Laurels for a while, so be safe if you're going to gnarlier places.
Odd datapoint: In 2009-2011 (the snowmageddon included in there) though, CR-V with simply all weathers performed quite well.
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