It has begun. Is it a test or can temperatures sustain a full on assault?
https://www.laurelmountainski.com/the-mountain/mountain-conditions/mountain-cams.aspx
In the Laurels, its hanging in there as far as temperatures are concerned. Hard to know snowmaking wise when to go all-in, but this is as good a pocket of temp as any.
Laurel this morning
Interesting opening plan, using Sunbowl, as the Alley has always been in opening plan in recent years. Hoping Northface and North Pole lifts are operating at the start of the season, as we know what happened to North Face lift most of last season.
Based on the 10 day forecast though, all of that could change depending on what comes in tonight. The 2 rounds of snow coming in could force a change in snowmaking strategy so that maybe opening day is not this coming weekend but the 12th/13th with the alley, etc open. I get that the alley is a huge feature, but you essentially have to make decent snow all the way to the north face base. All speculation on my part.
I was at Springs today getting my pass and yes, their focus is on the frontside Wagner / bowl / fawn etc, some of beginner conveyor area.
I was at HV today and it looked like their focus was Rambler, Thunderbird, top of Continental and some of Cobra. Certainly taking advantage of the cold snap. The rest looked like testing out snowmaking here and there. Who knows when they actually are going to open, but count on it, it's normally 10-14 days after Springs opens as all the staffing settles out.
I was there on Monday and felt like the snowmaking was not in earnest. Mike in the ski shop, who I like and respect, told me he disagreed. We shall see. Hopefully they got some good natural overnight, we got 4-5 inches down off the ridges so I am thinking totals up there would be decent although the heaviest stuff may have stayed just north of HV/7S.
That pic of LM above they are definitely making more snow there than HV is.
needawax wrote:
I was at HV today and it looked like their focus was Rambler, Thunderbird, top of Continental and some of Cobra. Certainly taking advantage of the cold snap. The rest looked like testing out snowmaking here and there. Who knows when they actually are going to open, but count on it, it's normally 10-14 days after Springs opens as all the staffing settles out.
Fair enough. In recent times, it has been the case that HV makes some snow, waits for some weather, then makes some more snow. Laurel needs to make as much snow as they can, actually - and also have the ability to push it around to where there isn't heavy snowmaking. I'd expect more hammering on the snowmaking there; good for them!
Leo wrote:
I was there on Monday and felt like the snowmaking was not in earnest. Mike in the ski shop, who I like and respect, told me he disagreed. We shall see. Hopefully they got some good natural overnight, we got 4-5 inches down off the ridges so I am thinking totals up there would be decent although the heaviest stuff may have stayed just north of HV/7S.
That pic of LM above they are definitely making more snow there than HV is.
needawax wrote:
I was at HV today and it looked like their focus was Rambler, Thunderbird, top of Continental and some of Cobra. Certainly taking advantage of the cold snap. The rest looked like testing out snowmaking here and there. Who knows when they actually are going to open, but count on it, it's normally 10-14 days after Springs opens as all the staffing settles out.
Looks like opening day is this Saturday......
Nothing Vail does is in earnest. It will be the same old same old story. If you are talking about the big guy at Willis, he's always a cheerleader for Vail. Cant figure out why.
It will be One/two slopes open, then slowly work on one more, then one more. Then maybe after presidents day weekend the crowds will be tolerable and even with a ton of snow roughly 75% terrain open.
Yet they will advertise this full open mountain to people that come from other areas, while Holiday Valley will actually have a full open mountain.
I hope one day to see class action lawsuits occur. Then and only then will the industry so terribly terrorized by big corporate Vail be able to heal.
Leo wrote:
I was there on Monday and felt like the snowmaking was not in earnest. Mike in the ski shop, who I like and respect, told me he disagreed. We shall see. Hopefully they got some good natural overnight, we got 4-5 inches down off the ridges so I am thinking totals up there would be decent although the heaviest stuff may have stayed just north of HV/7S.
That pic of LM above they are definitely making more snow there than HV is.
needawax wrote:
I was at HV today and it looked like their focus was Rambler, Thunderbird, top of Continental and some of Cobra. Certainly taking advantage of the cold snap. The rest looked like testing out snowmaking here and there. Who knows when they actually are going to open, but count on it, it's normally 10-14 days after Springs opens as all the staffing settles out.
What's aggravating is that there was at least a whole week (120 hrs.) to perform maximum snowmaking due to great early season snowmaking conditions. As of now, SS appears to have nothing more than the above mentioned slopes(Wagner, Fawn, Phillips, Deer Pass, Alpine Pass, and Sunbowl) slated for opening day.
I hope I'm wrong and that they expand snowmaking ops tonight. But....its Vail!!
Looks like HV has some guns on, unless my eyes are deceiving me and that's the overnight storm that has come in on the early side...
trickshotscott wrote:
What's aggravating is that there was at least a whole week (120 hrs.) to perform maximum snowmaking due to great early season snowmaking conditions. As of now, SS appears to have nothing more than the above mentioned slopes(Wagner, Fawn, Phillips, Deer Pass, Alpine Pass, and Sunbowl) slated for opening day.
I hope I'm wrong and that they expand snowmaking ops tonight. But....its Vail!!
This is what happened last year. Whole frontside 12" base - stayed closed while 7S opened.
This is usually a "sorting out of staff" issue. There are people who sign up to work at HV and then people who get put at HV. No value judgment there - I love HV. But that's the way it is.
Plus, I usually get my legs back for a few days at 7S then hit HV/Laurel when they open, because 7S usually becomes ridiculous thereafter.
The Alley is getting some attention. Not sure whether the snowmaking has made it to a bottom NF lift, but ....
Also, I love the "not in earnest!" What would "earnest" snowmaking look like? Laying whales everywhere? Draining every pond in the nearby area? Getting your buddies to groom out the rest? Opening up for essentially nobody until after Dec 25? C'mon...
as of 12/3/2025 8:53 - Mountain Cams | Hidden Valley PA
Lower Wildcat 12/3
It would look like trying to get open. When you've had a week of snowmaking conditions and a favorable long term forecast. Instead of just for social media BS.
needawax wrote:
Also, I love the "not in earnest!" What would "earnest" snowmaking look like? Laying whales everywhere? Draining every pond in the nearby area? Getting your buddies to groom out the rest? Opening up for essentially nobody until after Dec 25? C'mon...
as of 12/3/2025 8:53 - Mountain Cams | Hidden Valley PA
Should SS being laying whales everywhere? Abso f'ing lutely! We haven't had ikiller snowmaking conditions like this in early December in years. Will be almost 2 weeks through the long range forecast...more than enough to get whole dang mountain open if they weren't value engineering the whole process.
I'm not concerned about Vail's bottom line. They are profitable. Perhaps shave a point off the net margin and deliver back to your customers to provide a superior customer experience. I'm a customer, not a shareholder. I want the best product for my money.
Jeez! They could at least update the website. Here is the current screen shot from HV’s website. It’s still referring to last March! Their IT staff does not impress me.
Had to put some heat on at the place this evening. HV is laying down quite a bit on skiers left frontside. As of like 6pm
Reminds me of Linus in the great pumpkin where he wanted the most sincere pumpkin patch. Those techno alpins do look like theyre putting out sincere snow at 17 degrees.
Imagine if they had the summer and fall for basic maintenance and upkeep. LOL. I'm sure the Vail apologists will find some way to spin it.
Lest all I do is complain, I will admit HV has made more (front side) snow than I expected. But the lift ticket purchase feature still shows 12/20 as the first date to buy. Fingers crossed they open this weekend.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
Brett Cook's nightmare: the main highspeed lift breaks down on opening weekend. Yes, he is living it. Yesterday the front side Polar Bear six pack broke down and remains down as of 10: 25 am 12/8. 7S reports an electrical problem under repair and hope to have the lift running later today. Too bad the Alley wasn't open.
It looks like they're testing the Polar Bear 6 now 11: 45. 7springs.com Keeping fingers crossed.
Laurel is looking good. Hopefully they'll open this weekend.
But they pay $20 an hour!
Vail's plan is to water down everything. Any competition, stomp it. Then the next generation will think this is normal to have only 7% of terrain open. And that is EXACTLY their plan. Think of what Netflix did to Cinema. Remember GOOD movies? Maybe you do, younger people dont. And that was intentional.
Remember when 7S would blow snow over almost the entire mountain at times?
Remember the super park and Olympic half pipe? 7S felt like a semi legit resort at the time.
That will all be memory holed, and if anyone complains 1. ban them 2. blame mother nature.
7S had a very large roster of people willing to come up and work as needed, it wasnt about the free pass. They had doctors, lawyers, lift mechanics/engineers working for them on weekends , evenings, weekdays. It wasnt about the percs, but for those that were only there for the percs, 7S still got a steady work force that they could lean on that was both capable and friendly. And those people didnt mind working a few hours here and there.
Now, you have people making $20 / hr that had / have little experience, including the people training your kids to ski, watching them on lifts and keeping them safe from the onslaught of drunks flying down the green trails.
Worse, as Vail focuses 110% on their operational costs, they dont let bodies stand around much. They will staff with bare minimum required and send people home. Sure you may make $20 / hr, but if you only work 8 hours a week, what good is it?
Working at corporate is no better. FYI. Everything must be within an approved budget planned in advance very painfully, and dont be surprised if lower than expected pass sales cancel your project or another resort out argues their case. 900 people get involved of which only a handful would be boots on the ground. It's typical corporate waste. What could be done by 2-3 people with great knowledge of the problem and what it takes to solve it, now requires 5 departments, plenty of red tape and in fighting, and many many meetings among every department imaginable. We are talking meetings about meetings people. If you've been there, you know what I mean.
Vail sucks.
Leo wrote:
Imagine if they had the summer and fall for basic maintenance and upkeep. LOL. I'm sure the Vail apologists will find some way to spin it.
Lest all I do is complain, I will admit HV has made more (front side) snow than I expected. But the lift ticket purchase feature still shows 12/20 as the first date to buy. Fingers crossed they open this weekend.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
Brett Cook's nightmare: the main highspeed lift breaks down on opening weekend. Yes, he is living it. Yesterday the front side Polar Bear six pack broke down and remains down as of 10: 25 am 12/8. 7S reports an electrical problem under repair and hope to have the lift running later today. Too bad the Alley wasn't open.
Grumps, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that a publicly traded corporation would act in such a manner. It's as if they are more concerned about their shareholders than their paying customers and employees, SHOCKED!
Grumpy dad wrote:
But they pay $20 an hour!
Vail's plan is to water down everything. Any competition, stomp it. Then the next generation will think this is normal to have only 7% of terrain open. And that is EXACTLY their plan. Think of what Netflix did to Cinema. Remember GOOD movies? Maybe you do, younger people dont. And that was intentional.
Remember when 7S would blow snow over almost the entire mountain at times?
Remember the super park and Olympic half pipe? 7S felt like a semi legit resort at the time.
That will all be memory holed, and if anyone complains 1. ban them 2. blame mother nature.
7S had a very large roster of people willing to come up and work as needed, it wasnt about the free pass. They had doctors, lawyers, lift mechanics/engineers working for them on weekends , evenings, weekdays. It wasnt about the percs, but for those that were only there for the percs, 7S still got a steady work force that they could lean on that was both capable and friendly. And those people didnt mind working a few hours here and there.
Now, you have people making $20 / hr that had / have little experience, including the people training your kids to ski, watching them on lifts and keeping them safe from the onslaught of drunks flying down the green trails.
Worse, as Vail focuses 110% on their operational costs, they dont let bodies stand around much. They will staff with bare minimum required and send people home. Sure you may make $20 / hr, but if you only work 8 hours a week, what good is it?
Working at corporate is no better. FYI. Everything must be within an approved budget planned in advance very painfully, and dont be surprised if lower than expected pass sales cancel your project or another resort out argues their case. 900 people get involved of which only a handful would be boots on the ground. It's typical corporate waste. What could be done by 2-3 people with great knowledge of the problem and what it takes to solve it, now requires 5 departments, plenty of red tape and in fighting, and many many meetings among every department imaginable. We are talking meetings about meetings people. If you've been there, you know what I mean.
Vail sucks.
Leo wrote:
Imagine if they had the summer and fall for basic maintenance and upkeep. LOL. I'm sure the Vail apologists will find some way to spin it.
Lest all I do is complain, I will admit HV has made more (front side) snow than I expected. But the lift ticket purchase feature still shows 12/20 as the first date to buy. Fingers crossed they open this weekend.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
Brett Cook's nightmare: the main highspeed lift breaks down on opening weekend. Yes, he is living it. Yesterday the front side Polar Bear six pack broke down and remains down as of 10: 25 am 12/8. 7S reports an electrical problem under repair and hope to have the lift running later today. Too bad the Alley wasn't open.
LHC, the really sad part about it all is that it honestly doesn't have to be a zero sum game. They could deliver an excellent product, take care of their employees, and deliver value to shareholders. They truly aren't mutually exclusive. But any more, especially larger corporations, clearly can't fathom that concept.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
Grumps, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that a publicly traded corporation would act in such a manner. It's as if they are more concerned about their shareholders than their paying customers and employees, SHOCKED!
Grumpy dad wrote:
But they pay $20 an hour!
Vail's plan is to water down everything. Any competition, stomp it. Then the next generation will think this is normal to have only 7% of terrain open. And that is EXACTLY their plan. Think of what Netflix did to Cinema. Remember GOOD movies? Maybe you do, younger people dont. And that was intentional.
Remember when 7S would blow snow over almost the entire mountain at times?
Remember the super park and Olympic half pipe? 7S felt like a semi legit resort at the time.
That will all be memory holed, and if anyone complains 1. ban them 2. blame mother nature.
7S had a very large roster of people willing to come up and work as needed, it wasnt about the free pass. They had doctors, lawyers, lift mechanics/engineers working for them on weekends , evenings, weekdays. It wasnt about the percs, but for those that were only there for the percs, 7S still got a steady work force that they could lean on that was both capable and friendly. And those people didnt mind working a few hours here and there.
Now, you have people making $20 / hr that had / have little experience, including the people training your kids to ski, watching them on lifts and keeping them safe from the onslaught of drunks flying down the green trails.
Worse, as Vail focuses 110% on their operational costs, they dont let bodies stand around much. They will staff with bare minimum required and send people home. Sure you may make $20 / hr, but if you only work 8 hours a week, what good is it?
Working at corporate is no better. FYI. Everything must be within an approved budget planned in advance very painfully, and dont be surprised if lower than expected pass sales cancel your project or another resort out argues their case. 900 people get involved of which only a handful would be boots on the ground. It's typical corporate waste. What could be done by 2-3 people with great knowledge of the problem and what it takes to solve it, now requires 5 departments, plenty of red tape and in fighting, and many many meetings among every department imaginable. We are talking meetings about meetings people. If you've been there, you know what I mean.
Vail sucks.
Leo wrote:
Imagine if they had the summer and fall for basic maintenance and upkeep. LOL. I'm sure the Vail apologists will find some way to spin it.
Lest all I do is complain, I will admit HV has made more (front side) snow than I expected. But the lift ticket purchase feature still shows 12/20 as the first date to buy. Fingers crossed they open this weekend.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
Brett Cook's nightmare: the main highspeed lift breaks down on opening weekend. Yes, he is living it. Yesterday the front side Polar Bear six pack broke down and remains down as of 10: 25 am 12/8. 7S reports an electrical problem under repair and hope to have the lift running later today. Too bad the Alley wasn't open.
Had to stop by HV this morning. It's looking very winter like for mid December....
Credit mother nature and, being fair, Vail, for some reasonable efforts with snowmaking on the front side. Where's needawax, heck I'll even go so far as to call it in earnest, it makes me happy to say.
Ten day forecast continues to look favorable too.
They are making snow on the North Side. Given weather projections, this could be one of the best Holiday seasons in a very long time.
Leo wrote:
Had to stop by HV this morning. It's looking very winter like for mid December....
Credit mother nature and, being fair, Vail, for some reasonable efforts with snowmaking on the front side. Where's needawax, heck I'll even go so far as to call it in earnest, it makes me happy to say.
Ten day forecast continues to look favorable too.
Lift Blog and Snow Brains reports that Seven Springs will replace the Blitzen Triple with a fixed grip quad next season. The Triple is at the base of Alpine Meadows and what was the Super Pipe.
Vail Resorts Announces New Lifts for Blackcomb & Seven Springs
Seven Springs Resort, PA, is Planning on Adding a New Lift for the 2026-27 Season
Earnest or not, lol, HV opens Sat / Sun, with some terrain open. Traditional for them to open on a weekend (a week after 7s), reconvene after a few days and then go to semi-normal early-season schedule. Not speaking for myself, but very few people even think about skiing in SW PA until after the holidays. I was being facetious with the earnestness. It's hard to know what is and what isn't. Depends, perhaps, on the eye of the discerner. Regardless, they are making a go of it.
I get your issue with a large corporate entity owning and operating locally here - with all the trappings a large corporate entity usually entails. I would love to see a smaller owner, who embraced the resort and did the proper care and feeding it needs. I'm just not sure what or who that might be - or who else could sustain a ski operation here otherwise.
Last, (and not least for sure), I'll say, I'm excited for opening day at HV, as I was at 7S last week - despite the cluster that it was!
Leo wrote:
Had to stop by HV this morning. It's looking very winter like for mid December....
Credit mother nature and, being fair, Vail, for some reasonable efforts with snowmaking on the front side. Where's needawax, heck I'll even go so far as to call it in earnest, it makes me happy to say.
Ten day forecast continues to look favorable too.
Lh would be great in Sunday morning if I could go. Heck even if I could only do a few runs. Assuming the weather doesn't shift on us. It won't be dry powder but first tracks it doesn't matter.
Blue Don 1982 wrote:
Midweek Bummer - I was hoping to get in a day trip to LM or HV on M, T or W next week.
Seems like my choices are 7S or an overnighter to TL.
Grump - I may have to change my handle to Grumpy Blue Don, lol.
Since my retirement, I try to avoid weekends at all costs. PLUS, the Steelers do not play until Monday night, so all our Yinzer friends and families will invade the Laurel Highlands.
It appears my plans are drifting to a possible TL day on Tue with a bonus Wisp Wednesday.
Grumpy dad wrote:
Lh would be great in Sunday morning if I could go. Heck even if I could only do a few runs. Assuming the weather doesn't shift on us. It won't be dry powder but first tracks it doesn't matter.
Blue Don 1982 wrote:
Midweek Bummer - I was hoping to get in a day trip to LM or HV on M, T or W next week.
Seems like my choices are 7S or an overnighter to TL.
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