This is one person's view of Mount Porte Crayon's ski and slope layout. This is the flat rock run side of Mount Porte Crayon that "FishnSki" has brought up. His idea of landscaping came to me as a very important aspect of the new area. (map to follow if i can figure out how to post)


The Mount Porte Crayon (4,770') Ski Area Debate -
There have been some ruminations around the Mid-Atlantic region of a possible ski area being built on Mount Porte Crayon, just south of Canaan Valley, WV. I would like to add my 2 cents worth. First, a few disclaimers/assumptions.

1) I have only heard of Mount Porte Crayon (4,770') being a possible area for ski area development by the dude that owns Wintergreen (here-to-after: Mr. Developer). I don't know what has transpired regarding his plans or whether this thing is even feasible after the environmental impact studies are complete.
2) I do not work for Mr. Developer, nor do have any stake in the mountain.
3) The attached map is my notion of what the area should look like. It is not Mr. Developer's plan, nor does he know of it. I expect a lawsuit any day now.
4) I assume that he owns the north slope of the mountain (he would be dumb if he were to develop on any other aspect) in the Flatrock Run drainage.
5) I won't turn down any lucrative offer from Mr. Developer to serve as his environmentally-friendly, ski area development consultant/designer/engineer.

OK, back to the work at hand. The map shows my best guess at what a bad-ass mountain would look like. The base elevation is at 2,540' and the top of lift-served terrain would be 4,702', this gives an impressive 2,162 vertical feet - nothing to sneeze at. Timberline and Canaan Valley have 1,000' and 850', respectively. Snowshoe to the south has 850', except for one run that offers 1,500'. Of course Mount Porte Crayon would have a northerly exposure to hold snow in our miserable region, but the mountain can easily expect 150" - 200" inches of the white stuff per year.

The mountain would cater to advanced skiers, but would offer some green runs too. I think that two lifts would suffice, maybe a third or fourth. All lifts are to be fixed grip - detachable quads just crowd up the slopes. Also, on the ride up people should ponder the beauty of the terrain and slower lifts give time to do this and regenerate your quadricept muscles. I might even ban snowboarders for snowquality purposes, but this is a pipe dream. All expert runs are to be gladed for four reasons. Glades are awesome, they hold snow better than down-mountain runs, will be less intrusive to the ecology of the area, and provide a better viewshed of the mountain from the valley (on all accounts, see mountain plan of Mad River Glen, VT). Intermediate runs shall have intermittent trees to act as snow catchers and Oxygen producers. Green runs will also have some softwoods interspersed so as to help with snowpack. Spruces and Firs won't hurt the beginners when they run into them too. Let's face it, this mountain is in the Mid-Atlantic - we need to keep the snow that falls - see Whitegrass's snowfarming techniques with fences and trees to act as windbreaks.

Now, I am a bit a torn about the possibility of a mountain like this getting developed. There is not much undeveloped land around and the mountains of WV are beautiful and isolated, so if it is to be developed, I would like to see it done the correct way. If the mountain is developed properly, more snow would be retained and less money would be wasted in land-clearing, lift construction, AND snowmaking. Also, maybe a mountain like this would be good for the local economy.

Also, I think that Mr. Developer is planning on naming the real estate condo community "Almost Heaven". I really hope he doesn't name the mountain that. That's pretty dorky. Mount Porte Crayon Ski Area will suffice. The mountain can speak for itself. Also, let's not mar the mountain with trophy homes and condos. They belong in the valley, if anywhere. Let's be cognizant of the fact that a close neighbor is the Monongehela National Forest and bobcats, bear, deer, etc. make the area their home.

HomeBuiscuit- do you have a blog where you posted this? One of our members- Denis, if I remember right- linked to your blog a while back, or at least to a blog that had virtually the same argument on it with a rather nice trail layout. Anyway, all comments from hereon presume that blog is yours.

First, let me say that you really came up with an ingenious way to utilize the terrain. I had been studying the topography for a while on MPC and did not find it very conducive to a good ski resort, but you solved the problem very nicely with a couple of different sections t the mountain that will make it seem much bigger than it actually is. I was reminded of Solitude out in Utah- it's not large by western standards but the terrain keeps folding in on itself, revealing one face after another, making you feel like your skiing across a much bigger territory than you are. You also did a great job of solving the drainage basin conundrum by having a lift take you out of that drain instead of running a slope down it. That slope would be overwhelmingly crowded, so using the lift to escape it would help keep people spread out.

That said, there's a couple of things worth considering. First, a ski resort of that magnitude in this region simply can't cater to expert skiers. Ski areas don't make money; real estate does. Anything that caters to only 10-15% of the skiing crowd that is as large (and will take up as much controversy as MPC is going to take up if Bill Bright proposes it) will be doomed to bankruptcy and failure. This ski resort will not make it without significant intermediate and novice skiing.

Second, glades are nice but you can't use them exclusively for several reasons. Most importantly, you know how fickle our weather here is. Without snowmaking, even this cold December would have only been skiable on a couple of well groomed runs. On a good year, a glade will be skiable for 4-6 weeks; on a bad year, none at all. This means that for the balance of the ski season (assuming a 125 day ski season, that means somewhere between 80-100 days), the only runs off the summit on that map will be a couple of novice runs. They will be jammed, icy, and dangerous.

Certainly there is room for some very large gladed skiing areas, but you're gonna need at least an intermediate run or two off the summit as well as some open advanced runs (ideally, if Wisp is a model, you can run some glades along snowmaking runs to get some windblown snow into them and keep them open longer).

A key problem that has been mentioned by several people is potential water supply issues in the basin that MPC will face into. This lends support to your glade emphasis but is an environmental issue that has to be addressed. Finally, keep a close eye at the base of the mountain. There's a creek that one of the lifts cross that makes it difficult to get back to the base area. There would have to be extensive grading work done there to hook those trails back to the lodge- certainly not a difficult task for a landscape engineering firm but it will be hard to get the EIS approval necessary from the USFS.

Agree that the area would need beginner and intermediate runs to survive, but it would be great if they could segregate different parts of the mountain for these runs. Don't have it like snowshoe where beginners and experts all come together in long runouts to lifts or where beginner runs traverse across the fall lines of advanced ones. Maybe don't allow any beginner runs from the summit. Also, with 2200' vertical, detachable quads are a MUST. Can you imagine riding the powder monkey lift for 3x as long or Thunderdraft over twice as long to get to the summit. I can appreciate the need to appreciate the beauty of the area, but I personally would like to get over 3 runs an hour in. A lift of that magnitude would take at least 15-20 minutes if it wasn't high speed. Still I say bring it on, this place could certainly rock.

2200' of vert in the mid-atlantic would be amazing. This resort would not only be a big player in the mid atlantic but throughout the east coast!! Can't wait to see the map!

Hope this works

HomeBuscuit- second post didn't work. Maybe you should just link to the other site?

I agree with NDSkier- went to undergrad there ND but I'm not rooting for the football team, ever- that there is a need for high speed quads too. When you have a mountain with 2000 feet of vertical, and a couple of those lifts cover well over 1000 feet of vert, the high speed quad is still going to take 5-7 minutes to ride up. Plus, as a couple of us have seen at Wisp, detachable lifts are very beneficial for the novices that will be going up to the summit to take advantage of those three and four mile runs. Get rid of those detachable chairs and not only to do you have a 20 minute ride but one that stops frequently as well. Whee.

For what its worth...

Mr. Developer (Bill Bright) owns Winterplace, not Wintergreen. You might want to update your original post to reflect that.


Second, you don't need glades to hold snow. We are having a completely anemic ski season in Southern California right now. I believe there has been 4" of snow to DATE as of 12/27. Mt Baldy & Mt High are struggling (No opening vs. 8-10" base respectively) while Snow Summit (with one of the nations largest snowmaking systems) is thriving. None of our resorts here have open glades for skiing -- the trails and vert is also wider/ longer than Mid-Altantic Resorts. (Snow Summit has ~1200-1300 of vert @ the peaks). Their success is the direct result of effective snowmaking and planning on the part of their management team.

What Bill Bright (owner of Winterplace, developer of Almost Heaven/ MPC) knows and what WE know is: its all about snowmaking. Someone else here mentioned that there are water issues at the site, THAT is the biggest threat to development. It could end up being that MPC becomes homesites and not a resort -- do not count this option out. Bill Bright sold his large stake in Glade Springs to Cooper Development which has made a cash cow out of the former property. Certainly he has taken notice of the increased interest in WV real estate as a place to escape...

see if this works.Where is Baywalker when you need him? If this doesn't work can you do your magic Rogerz?
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2086/962/1600/pc5.0.jpg IT didn't work! By the way I AM NOT THE BLOGGER! I just tried to bring it up for interesting discussion! There is a major chance that if the last bit of property on that Mtn cannot be bought & the red tape not breakable,Like WP said "the developer" will just build homes all over the sides of the mtn with no ski area. What a shame! I even searched "bill Bright" & found where there is a Developement named "almost heaven" that is or will be a gated community with a "ski complex" What does that mean?

here is the map!

Awlright, i've got the map twice must be someone having some tecnikal difficultys besides me for a change. Here's something i never considered b4 that really bothers me, thanks WP E, where u bin?

Quote:

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Someone else here mentioned that there are water issues at the site, THAT is the biggest threat to development. It could end up being that MPC becomes homesites and not a resort -- do not count this option out....... Certainly he has taken notice of the increased interest in WV real estate as a place to escape...

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Now what's the sense, to a skier, of taking this sweet mountain and developing it without a ski area? Now i'm pissed, andy u out there?? There's plenty of places to develop *liebenschraum* in CV. Why ruin MPC with development if selfish i can't ski there. RogerZ said earlier that it doesn't matter to him one way or another if "almost heaven" gets built or not and i admit i agree, but if someones gonna develop that mountain and not put a ski area on it, i'll start hugging trees and loving salamanders and flying swuirrels to stop it!

Whew, so much for my resolution , i'm going back to the untopic for a while; things make so much more sense there.