Besides the Cupp Run area, Snowshoe is very similar to Bryce. No challenge little vertical and a nice run out at the end.

Personally, I would take a day at Blue Knob any day over one at Snowshoe. Even if the lower mountain isn't open at Blue Knob, expressway, Deer Run and their upper glades that are open quite frequently are more difficult and fun than any trail at Snowshoe(with the exception of Lower Shays). When anything on the lower mountain is open (normally Extrovert and High Hopes ) its really a no brainer. If you like nice groomed trails, Mambo alley is twice as long as green at snowshoe, and they normally groom Jack Rabbit nicely.

It is totally riddiculous to compare the shoe to bryce. More snow, better conditions, better lodging, and better apres ski options. I don't go to the shoe because it is too far from DC to be worth it for me most times. But its not "over rated" per se. Theres no point in bashing a resort. If you had a bad experience better to stick to the facts.

This resort bashing is senseless. Be thankful that Snowshoe decided to spend a lot of money last week to get the resort opened this past weekend. Not every resort in the region can afford that kind of snowmaking. We should be happy for the extended seasons places like Snowshoe and 7 Springs are providing the Mid-Atlantic. From the sound of it, skiers who visited the mountain this weekend had a great time. See Lbotta's comments here:

http://www.dcski.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000492.html

[This message has been edited by johnfmh (edited 12-08-2003).]

I'll never understand how Snowshoe inspires so much loyalty!? I'll leave it at that.

Snowshoe is a beautiful alpine area that does lack a little in the ski experience only because of the drive involved.BUILD ALMOST HEAVEN!! & put everybody except the prop owners at snowshoe at peace.(almost heaven is a proposed ski area with at least a 2000' vert a lot closer than the shoe)

I think Wisp is often overlooked as a great early season spot. They normally get a good part of the mountain open early and is closer to the dc area then 7springs and Snowshoe.

Bryce vs Snowshoe is a bit of a stretch, but while your waiting 30 minutes in line to get on the ball hooter express, you could be skiing on similar trails at a resort that is half the distance from DC.

I agree wisp is one of the best early season places. They have a lot of intermed terrain to get the legs into skiing after a long off season. They have unlimited snowmaking water from the lake. The trails are generally moderate in slope and many are more narrow and curving, holding snow well. This usually adds up to excellent early season conditions. I am going there this weekend for the $7 days and to check out the new lodge.

I don't understand. I only spend money on the ridiculous lift ticket prices at places like Liberty, Wisp, etc. when I go skiing with friends of mine who are less experienced skiers for their benefit. Don't you all get tired of skiing the same 1 or 2 decent slopes over and over and over and over again? I get bored after about an hour or two. Snowshoe offers a large enough trail map that you can get away from the out of control, straight down the hill in a huge pie skiers. Not to mention the quality of the accomodations, apres ski, and resort feel.

While as a resort SS is OK it is by no means a "lets make the really long drive because it is worth it" destination unless you are living down in Dixie.

I live in Baltimore. If I am going to spend 5+ hours in a car I am going to Vermont.

And yes aside from Cupp SS is a vertically challenged resort. Plus those lift lines are just plain stupid.

The reason there is so much loyalty to the Shoe is because you can count on a consistent and quality product early December through late March. I think most underestimate the options you have on the basin side. Yes a particular trail may be relatively short, but you can link, for example - powder ridge, powdermonkey, whiffletree - for a nice long diagonal run (and throw in a short blue, moonshine for a kicker if you like). You can get three totally different "feels" with the basin/northern tract, western territory, and don't forget about Silver Creek (for the kids, etc.) Yes, you do get some lines (I have never waited 30 minutes at Ballhooter) around noon and at the end of the day, but normally when one lift line is full, the others are empty (go against the flow and you will be fine). If you don't have lines at other hills, on weekends, then there is something wrong. You never have a wait on the Cupp Run lift.

I love bashing snowshoe just as much as anybody, but today with the exception of 2 maybe 3 complaints I feel compelled to defend it. As far as lift lines go at snowshoe it has been my experience if you just stay as far away from the ballhooter express as possible you'll find fun terrain and small lift lines. If lift lines are a big problem take the bus over to Silver Creek and i guarantee lift lines will not be much a problem with the exception of maybe the one over the terrain park. Also i've never experienced line problems on the western territory either and know of no other slopes in the region that can really compare in length/challenge. Yes it would be cooler if they had 3 more runs on that side, but beggers can't be choosers and I'm sure eventually they will have a few more trails over there. My biggest complaint/wish (other than price and drive) is that they need glades!!!!

Yes DWW, there is real consistency to the Snowshoe product, unfotunately, that's the problem.

(D'Oh! I promised myself I wouldn't)

DC_Skier: Michael B makes my point (on consistency and quality) in the "Resort Comparisons" topic. If you are saying consistency means lack of variety (which was not my meaning), aside from a lack of gladed areas, who has more in the area?

DWW,

No I meant the experience is consistently poor. Look some people love the 'Shoe and others don't!

Although the Western Territory at Snowshoe rarely has long lift lines, the high speed quad can often dump out more skiers on the 2 slopes (Cup and Shays) than these slopes can handle. Sometimes I find myself heading down Cup at 45+mph elbow to elbow with other cruisers and crowds of skiers in front of me. There needs to be at least one more slope (maybe 2) in the Western Territory as the uphill capacity of the high speed quad currently exceeds the ability of the terrain to handle such a large number of skiers per hour.

Here's a shot of the ridge across the lake from the basin side of snowshoe. Notice the east face of the slope. Imagine if you will, a slope system over there with gladed terrain and all. Its a really consistent slope, REALLY STEEP (steeper than lower shay), and around 1400 feet. AND, its on the east slope instead of the west. The biggest problem with the western territory in my opinion is the wind. The wind HOWLS from the west right up the slopes sometimes. They have to close that side on some days its so bad. This makes it hard to keep powder on the slopes when the wind is blowing which leaves you the ice base. The east slopes of the Basin and this possible location of slopes across the lake is basically in a wind break so the wind is kept to a minimum.

Now it would be expensive to operate this new slope system in that you'd either have to run a lift over to it or run a road accross the top of the horseshoe from the top of the world over to the new slopes and run a shuttle. In addition, this would further deplete the lakes water since it wouldn't drain back into the lake when it melts.

I've heard rumor of an expansion plan on the other side of the lake and this might be the place. The west side seems too similar to the current basin side so maybe we'll get this killer expert area. Ok, so maybe not but its worth dreaming about, right?

Besides, then it would make these "snowshoe is overrated" posts fewer and more far between.

Sorry, forgot the link. Here it is.

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=2&s=13&x=369&y=2658&z=17&w=1

DC_Skier - Everyone has thier favorites. Fortunately we have some nice hills to choose from in the area.

Not exactly sure what area you are talking about for new slopes at Snowshoe. According to their ten year plan, new slopes are already planned for the opposite side of the basin (from the present slopes, across the lake). Next time anybody is at the SHOE just go in the condo office and check out the future plans, including new Western slope runs also.
The Colonel

JR
I like what you said so far. May I add some ideas? Instead of shuttles, how about gondolas/trams similar to the tram at Squaw Valley or the gondola at Telluride?

The gondola at Telluride is running as a public transportation between old town of Telluride and Mountain Village free of charge. The interesting thing about the gondola at Telluride is that it suspends/runs at treetop level for windy days and stormy days. Neat, huh?

I wonder what's your opinion if there's gondola(s) running from top-of-the-world to numerous areas around Snowshoe mtn? How about one running from Silver Creek down to the area near boathouse then up to the Northern Tract area then over to the Western Territory then up to the Top of the World then perhaps to the East Slope. In the summer, mtn bikers can get on the gondola with their bikes and go to the top or wherever they wants to go. I don't care much for the small size gondola that hold up to 4 ppl. I prefer the one that can hold up to about 8-10 ppl in each.

Like I said above that gondolas would help eliminate the shuttles on the road and the waiting for the shuttles.

Colonel, I'm talking about the back side of the mountain that you see just opposite of the basin across the lake. Looking across the lake you see the west face of the mountain that I'm talking about. The east face of that same mountain (climb that mountain and drop off the other side) is about 1400' vertical drop and steep as all get out.

As for the gondola, i dig it. They should build a Personal Rapid Transit like the one here in Morgantown. It is more effecient than the Disney Monorail you know

>> Don't you all get tired of skiing the same 1 or 2 decent slopes over and over and over and over again?

If Whitetail has all it's trails open, no. I'll get there early and do 1-2 hours worth of high speed runs off the high-speed quad. There are three quality blue cruisers off the quad. Throw in a run or two in the terrain park.

Once things are getting crowded on the quad, I'll head over to the Expert's Choice lift for some bump skiing. I could ski Bold Decision the rest of the day. It has a variety of bump lines and terrain features to choose from. Sometimes I'll ski the same line over and over until I get it right (or just get too frustrated!). Throw in some runs on Farside and Exhibition for variety, a hit on the terrain park on the way back to the lodge, and that's a full day.

If it's not crowded, I'll spend some time working on ski drills (one-legged skiing, boots unbuckled, javelin turns, pivot slips, etc.) I have a list of at least 20 drills to choose from.

At the start of each run, I generally choose a turn strategy for the run: all GS turns, tight slalom turns, alternating GS and slalom turns, not turning at all, etc. Somtimes I'll concentrated on a particular mechanic: keeps hands in front, etc. Each run down is different.

The snowshoe gondola idea is an urban legend according the resort's communications director. It's nice to dream about it but it is not something in the planning books.

Scott Smith reported on the REAL changes in the works at Snowshoe in the following article:

http://www.dcski.com/news/2003/03_01_2003/snowshoe.php3

"An effort is currently underway to widen many slopes at the main Snowshoe area, reducing some trail mergings and providing space for a new Superpipe and more permanent terrain park at the Snowshoe area, set to debut next season."

"Plans are also in the works to add additional terrain in the Western Territory, although a timetable is not yet in place and is dependent on environmental studies. Current plans call for adding some additional terrain to the right of Cupp Run, offering a pitch comparable to Lower Shay's at the lower parts of the mountain. Years ago, the Western Territory included a number of additional runs which trees reclaimed long ago. Some of these runs may return, but don't expect new terrain to debut in the Western Territory until sometime after next season, and possibly for several years."

[This message has been edited by johnfmh (edited 12-10-2003).]

On the issue from the gondola... not gonna happen.

If you get the chance to ask a Shoe manager/ developer they will tell you that the costs of developing a system as the resort currently stands completely offsets revenue gains. A gondola (which would be nice) is extremely expensive to build and maintain. As long as snowshoe can make a profit running buses (which are cheaper) ... and still increase guest visits, the demand is not there for such a transportation device.

You must also consider the amount of guests who actual travel to silver creek. I know many people that go to shoe completely ignore the offerings (usually un-aware of it until too late in the day). Sadly, there is lack of demand as well.

Like I said it was just an idea. I know it's expensive but it can be done.

BTW, there's a tram at Pipestem Resort(not a ski resort) not far from Snowshoe. It has been done for many years. The tram is for motel guests, hikers, bikers, visitors, kids, and anybody who wants to dine at the restaurant by the creek.

GiantLeap.. guest visits? no demands? unaware of Silvercreek? .. okay whatever but I disagree but let us agree that we disagree on that one. Let it go.

My understanding is that the most likely trail expansion (other than Cupp side) will take place in the the Northern Tract area in connection to a new residential neihborhood called Red Spruce (out past Camp Four). I actually have seen the drawings. The trails would be green.

GiantLeap.. guest visits? no demands? unaware of Silvercreek? .. okay whatever but I disagree but let us agree that we disagree on that one. Let it go.

--

If a system of buses that moves roughly 20 ~ 30 passengers every 15 minutes does not create huge lines for silver creek, then there is no need to add a gondola system capable of moving up to 3000 per hour.

>GiantLeap>>> If a system of buses that moves roughly 20 ~ 30 passengers every 15 minutes does not create huge lines for silver creek, then there is no need to add a gondola system capable of moving up to 3000 per hour.>>

*sigh* 3000 per hour? hello mcfly? hello?
Have you seen the long lines at silvercreek waiting for the buses?

Facts (copy/paste from Telluride.com)
Environment Matters
The gondola virtually eliminates noise and air pollution, congested parking lots, and the need for people to drive their vehicles between the two towns. It simultaneously provides clean, smooth, quiet, free and visually spectacular transportation. The gondola towers are low profile, usually not exceeding tree line, lessening the visual impact typical of gondolas while also dramatically reducing the likelihood of shut down due to high winds.

Convenience
With a total of 32 eight-passenger gondola cabins on the three lines (26 on legs 1 & 2 and six on leg 3), guests can step into a gondola cabin almost every minute. Commuting this way takes far less time than riding the old intratown bus system. The hourly capacity of the gondola is 600% greater than the bus system. (The total hourly capacity of the gondola is 480 people per hour between towns in both directions while the total hourly capacity of the bus is 80 pph in both directions.) The gondola can handle up to 1200 pph if consistent demand in the future warrants more cabins being added.

"The Silver Bullet is a great machine and it's capable of moving 2,800 skiers per hour up the mountain. It used to be OK that on Christmas week and some powder mornings, there was a long line at the gondola," Mielke said. "I'm not sure it's OK anymore. We have a serious problem getting people out of the base."

-- Steamboat, CO -- 2800 skiers per hour.

Heavenly @ Tahoe has a gondola capacity of 2800 skiers per hour as well:

>> The cabins are level loading walk-in cabins which are fully ADA accessible. All three stations are level loading as well.
2800 persons/hour uphill capacity w/100% downhill loading capacity.

Banff also has a 2800 skier capacity gondola:

The new high-speed Poma replacement will carry up to 2,800 skiers per hour, nearly doubling the old lift's capacity and cutting travel time to 14 minutes per ride. "From now on," predicts Ross, "there should be no liftlines anywhere."

--- So if you were suggesting they do not exist, they do. And I do not disagree that it would be a wonderful thing... but considering Shoe's master plan to develop around the basin area ... it seems a Gondola to silver creek would be in the wrong direction. Further development there is limited... the potential on the other side of the lake however... endless.

http://www.skipressworld.com/us/en/daily_news/2001/07/banffs_sunshine_finally_replaces_gondola.html?cat=

Also from that article, not that each cabin for the gondola cost roughly ~$25,000 US. Not cheap by any means.

Now as I was saying before, Breckenridge is preparing a 3000 capacity an hour ski gondola:

According to Roger McCarthy, chief operating officer at Breckenridge, the new gondola will be capable of carrying 3,000 riders per hour in 12-passenger cabins. McCarthy said he hopes the gondola will decrease dependence on automobiles and buses in

Breckenridge, as the gondola will be able to move 60 percent more people per hour.

(http://bcn.boulder.co.us/campuspress/2001/02/22/expansion022201.html)

-- look familiar to Snowshoe? To reduce the dependency on buses. But as I said, from a business standpoint, gondola investment does not make sense for Shoe at this point!

Oh and BTW -- If you are interested in the COST of running a Gondola system:

http://www.mapacog.org/apnd_c.pdf

Look @ Page 12.

Now obviously some of the costs would be variable based on location... This cost estimate is based on 3600 hours of operating (or 150 days). The total cost comes in around 364,658 *annually*. Take a look for yourself.

Hey I live in coastal NC and the shoe is the closest big resort and I love the place .We went to killington last year and it was great I stayed lost the whole time but had a blast. But its a looooong drive (wife doesn't fly ) I,m just glad to be sking,we have been to beech mt, sugar mt,massanutten , all small resorts,and I never get bored, any day on the snow is a good day

I like this guy...Positive attitude for once around here.

Where u b gary B? I'm a coastal NC"ER also from wilmington.You have to ski the overpasses on I40 if you get desperate during the once in a while snows.

Snowshoe should build a few lifts between the Northern Tract and silver Creek. Instead of a gondola, it would provide new trails and ways to get to Silver Creek, however construction and snowmaking would make it very expense, and I'd rather have more trails in the Western Territory.

Hey Andy I live in Morehead City about an hour and a half from wlm.

MOREHEAD Hummm.. sounds like a kool place! Actually went thru there to harkers Island the other day,Wait a minute back to the thread....guys like you & me love leaving the coastal envirement & sking the shoe.Semi sub tropical to semi sub artic!!

Yea Andy Ain't NC great you can fish for king's one day and head for the mtn's to ski for the weekend