Anyone there still alive who remembers the expo at the Ballston Mall in Arlington? Steps away from the Metro and wall-to-wall people. I've been there once since they relocated it to the end of the world. For me, if it's not metro accessible, it's not worth it.

It was great when it was at the Ballston Mall as at the time I lived a 5 minute walk from the mall.

Agree that the location is no good at all. But the producers of the golf expo are stuck with the same thing and they seem to make the same location work.

i-Bot - yo yo that wuz 4 real ... yeah Balston Commons was filled with chicks and real-deal stuff remember who wuz it had the *huge* display on the lower level .. errr not Ski Chalet but someone else ...wuz that Inner Ski? Yeah yeah and Grey Rocks and Mont Treblant was there and Warren Miller films were actually *good* then!!! Dayum those were the dayz. And Ski Liberty gave away free Ice Cones and you could get back massages and stuff. Oh well I feel old now .. goodbye!

Colonel, Snow Sport Deals had the $14 gloves; I bought a pair for my son and my husband got a pair of ski pants for $39. My receipt has Lothian, MD as the address. I wasn't impressed with the show this year. Thought it was better last year. I was in Colorado last weekend visiting my son. Guess where the show was last weekend? If you guessed Denver, you were right. I was able to get a $3 discount coupon from the Colorado ski website. I didn't stay long. Several of the resorts were selling 4-packs of lift tickets for $89; they are good any time and are transferable. I ran in to get tickets for Loveland as we were going sking there Sunday. I was able to get 2 4-packs and I also got a 4-pack for A-Basin. Plan to go back after the first of the year and use the rest of the tickets. I wish the resorts here on the east coast offered deals like that.

Ski Chalet (TOSC) usually had the bottom floor, I remember in '94 there were aerials display on a trampoline.

Village ski was on top, with the swap and everything else in between.

The good years.

I was talking to one of the presenters today and she was incredibly surprised at:
No Vail, Breck, Keystone, Copper, Telluride (Crested Butte the only Colorado advertiser)
No UTAH?????
No Canada except Quebec
No Taos/Santa Fe
No NE areas except Okemo and Stowe
No Montana
No Western areas (Tahoe/Mammoth)
No camps, adult or junior
No clubs except SCWDC
And they still charge $1200 per display booth!

Unfortunately, this one has become a bit of a backwater. Bad, bad, bad, bad move taking it out of a mall with general crowd non-skier appeal.

The swap is overpriced and in direct competition with both Pro-Fit (good deals on Dynastar 8000s but not one 8800) and the TNSC Chantilly warehouse swap.

The Dulles Expo Center is a miserable location. We used to have a ski show in Baltimore at the Convention Center. Dulles Expo Center says"Baltimorons, we don't care about you" to me. Why not have the show somewhere between Baltimore and Washington.
Perhaps the main point here is that ski shows have been replaced by the internet. They are no longer relevant and vendors no longer show up. The shows at Ballston Common were good, but since then the show gets smaller each year and the Dulles Expo Center is pretty much an abandoned big box store turned bargain conference center. As long as it is there I will not return.

I remember going with some friends a few years ago and was totally dissapointed. The only reward for going was some Green Mountain coffee samples. I remember seeing a Ride Tempest there being sold as new when I had that model for 3 years at that point. I never found great deals on clothing and stuff so I've never been interested in going back. It just felt kind of half hearted.

Actually just since someone mentioned it, is anyone here a member of SCWDC? How do you like it?

No Utah was the biggest thing that surprised me as well. My wife and I go to Whistler every year or two and had wanted to go around and pick up some new brochures. But there was virtually nothing.

I guess the good thing is I discovered a great new ski store to go to this weekend. Unfortunately my wife discovered it as well...

snowsmith, I respectfully disagree. Ski Shows have NOT been replaced by the internet, and that is precisely the problem.

Internet ski websites are not designed to trigger interest in never-ever participants.

The ski show in Ballston could pull in never-evers.

We've shown here that one needs to be a diehard fan to even want to deal with the Dulles venue. Does this affect the DC skiing market? You bet it does, and not in a good way.

I respect the mountain festivals ski areas put on, that is exactly the spirit needed. Except it has to come to the newbie and the never-ever.

A few months ago Dicks Sporting Goods in Fairfax set up this whole deal in their parking lot where they had a pool set up where you could demo a canoe, they had a trailer set up inside with airsoft guns and targets, they had all sorts of gear on show and people were just wandering in to see what it was all about because it looked like fun, and it was fun.

Setting up an obscure show somewhere around Manassas isn't going to bring a lot of people because there is nothing to see from the road or just general passersby. On top of that even if you do see a sign and stop in casual interest doesn't lead you to spending $10 to get a look in. If you want to make something like this a success it has to be visible and it has to look exciting. I don't know what the rules are on it but could you imagine a ski show set up on the National Mall? Get the top vendors and just as importantly the top manufacturers to come with their new gear and just let people wander in free of charge. Make it one day but make one epic day. Put the onus on the vendors to foot the bill not the public then the pressure is on them to put together a show good enough that the public actually want to part with their hard earned cash for new gear. Call it the National Ski and Snowboard Festival and make it something really special that people can get fired up over. Not some half arsed effort in a glorified warehouse in Manassas.

Kennedy,
I went with my daughter on Friday evening. I agree with the comments. Most of it was booths with promotional hype from a FEW resorts (very few). I must disagree with the statement that it's in Manassas. It's in Chantilly. I wouldn't go if it was actually in Manassas as the traffic flow in/out of that forsaken place is miserable!!

-Warren-

Okay my bad Chantilly not Manassas, like I said earlier it's been a few years, but you get the point at least. The key to any sport, no matter how hardcore you are or how long you've been at it, it's the noobs that fuel the business. For me, apart from lift tix, this year all I'll buy are gloves so my overall contribution to the industry is a few hundred bucks. I probably don't need new gear for a season or two. Newbies however need all the gear and as everyone else said that's the group you need to attract which you will never do if it's not somewhere very visible.

Anybody know any good ski shops near Baltimore for buying inexpensive ski gear? My girlfriend is coming with us to Park City in January. BUT, she's from El Salvador so she's lacking in some of the needed gear (like, oh, cold weather clothing). Specifically, I think she needs some good gloves, ski pants, and maybe a hat. She's got thermals.

Any suggestions?

The ski show sucked. I went after work on Friday. Payed my $10 and went in. After looking around for 30 minutes. I am a slow over and ike to gab with the booth people. Many from newengland and local hills were friendly. The lady from CMH was very cool. Most of the rest were jerks or not interested in talking. I wonder why they were sent out to a convention...

At about this time we asked when the next movie was starting. The last movie of the night started 30 minutes before we arrived?!?!?! WTF? We arrived at 5:30. I only went to see the movie and 6 pm is a perfectly reasonable time to see a movie. What a joke.

(And possibly in reverse order of cheapness)
Princeton Sports on Falls Rd.
REI in Timonium
Ski Haus in Glen Burnie
Dick's Sporting Goods (several locations)
Sports Authority (several locations, they have different stock at different ones)
Play it Again Sports

The important thing here is to make it a shopping project and get the best deal at each one, not to expect one-stop shopping.

For things like gloves and even some other stuff try www.backcountryoutlet.com I got a really nice pair of Level gloves with nice liners etc. and a pair of Dakine pipe gloves for $50 incl. shipping. I couldn't touch a new pair of gloves at a store for less than $60 and certainly not 2 pairs. Be careful though they have lots of tasty stuff, very easy to get carried away.

I agree with Comprex. I found that Sk Haus in Glem Burnie had some very good prices on ski clothing. Second stuff from Play it Again Sports can save money for firt timers. Burlington Coat Factory has ski clothing sometimes also.

Thats true, for things like goggles and stuff you can sometimes pick them up for small money at Marshalls and stuff and if she's skiing not snowboarding it's not as critical for the gloves to be completely water proof so there is no need to spend huge money there.

Have you looked at the idea of renting ski gear?? I know many ski shops out west offer that and it might be worth it. I just looked at Ski N' see's website and $13/day gets you a jacket and pants. If it's only for a week it might be a better deal than shelling out big for new gear especially if you're not sure she'll even like it.

Actually www.utahskigolf.com is even cheaper at $16 for the first day and $8/day after that.

Heh, kennedy, I would err the other way.

Make durn sure she's as comfy as comfy gets, spend the money on gloves (she's from El Salvador, not Finland) and give her the chance to show her own style. That way, even if she doesn't get the movement part of this ski lark right off, she can still look good and be proud of it...

Thanks for all the advice guys! The only small catch is that she does not have ready access to a car, so the websites could come in handy.

To her credit, we skied together at Wisp last year in December, right before the temps went through the roof. It was highs in the low 20s both days, overnight lows in the single digits, and windy, and she did not get cold once. Granted we had borrowed some great gear from a good friend of mine, but I have hopes that she's not going to freeze to death in Utah.

I'll pass the info on... thanks again!

In that case, don't forget socks

Tim,
We must have crossed paths in the parking lot! My daughter and I were there from 4:30 - 5:30... Sorry I missed you

-Warren-

Okay folks - I'm jumping into the deep end of the pool here. I would like to ask everyone to PLEASE be nice to me. (No Flamers) Let me introduce myself. My name is Paul Zedeck and I am the son of the Producer of the show. My involvement with the show is exclusively limited to the website. I am fully prepared to answer questions about the design of the website or any internet related issues. I am not however in a position to explain why the show was planned or executed in the manner that it was. I'm strictly a volunteer and any decisions that were made are out of my area of responsibility. I am jumping into this forum for one simple reason. I care about my Dad. He's been producing the National Ski & Snowboard Expo (NSSE) for over 20 years now and he needs to hear your comments. So I offer myself as a conduit of communication from the community to the management of the National Ski & Snowboard Expo.

One thing that I can do right now is setup a special mailbox within the NSSE domain that users of this forum can post too with comments. (Or we can start a separate thread.) The bottom line is that I want to ensure that your concerns and issues are heard by management and dealt with. From the posts that I have seen so far there are some serious concerns out there and some very unhappy people. The NSSE is a service and as such should reflect the needs of the attendees. So I put the following questions to the forum:

1) In list form what things would you like to see at the Expo? (Please bear in mind that things like Ski & Snowboard simulators, personalities, etc do impact the cost of the ticket.)
2) What location would best suit your needs? (Also bear in mind that location impacts ticket price.)
3) How did you hear about the Expo this year? (Newsprint, Internet, word of mouth, or other?)
4) From 1 to 7 (7 Being Very Satisfied and 1 being Very Dissatisfied) Overall, how satisfied are you with the Expo?
5) How much would you pay for admission if you got everything that you wanted from the show?
6) How important are free lift tickets to your decision in coming to the show? (7 Being Very important and 1 being not important) ____
7) From 1 to 7 (7 Being Very important and 1 being not important) How important are the following:
a. Warren Miller Movie (___)
b. Ski Sale (___)
c. Mountain Exhibitor Booths (___)
d. Seeing new gear and clothing (___)
e. Venue Location (___)
f. Onsite food cost (___)
g. Free Parking (___)
h. Things to Do (___)
i. Other (___) : (Fill in):___________________

I promise to collect and aggregate the responses into a report for my Dad. I also promise to ensure that he hears you.

Regards,

Paul Zedeck
NSSE Web Master

PS any feedback on the website would be welcomed!

First of all kudos for jumping in and listening to our comments. Don't take the comments as a flame war. I've seen and been in those on here and trust me, that was not a flame war, but it should be taken as constructive criticism. The thing to remember is that everyone on here is die hard and we're more tuned in to whats happening in the local ski community. That means 2 things really 1. we may be aware of the show and be interested in coming but we're a relativley small cluster of people. You really need to find a way of getting to the newcomers and the never evers.

2. We're going to be much more critical because we know what we want and we're going to cut straight through the fluff.

Things like snowboard simulators and that stuff doesn't really interest me and I'm sure a lot of people will agree with me. What interests us is gear, lot's of it, up to date with knowledgeable interested people selling it and maybe some folks there telling us where we should take this gear to use it to it's optimal potential.

Do any of us care about Jeep or Subaru being there, not unless their rental of expo space lowers our entry fee. I have to think aswell that if the show is good enough you'll have enough people coming to it to keep the entry fee reasonable.

Halon, I am glad you are here. I sent an email to "fred" at your web site asking him to check it out. I have in general been happy with the show in the past. I will jump in with some comments. BTW I agree that the group does care alot about skiing and knows what we want. I think we do get our moneys worth (movie, mag, lift ticket), but we want the vendors, booths, and prizes to get better. Seems to me that this is the vendors job and is a balance between # of attendees and how much traffic it generates for thier product. Not sure how you affect that other than convincing vendors to show up. Then its our job to buy. Some in one of the posts said it is the newbies that bring in the bucks. I am not one of the shows cash cows. I ski local, except for one last minute trip a year. I am not a gear hound. And I buy my cloths at end of year sales. I might not be the best guy to ask what will draw me in (cuz I am not a high profit customer). Hmmm, not sure that helps you. That being said, here is my feedback.

1) In list form what things would you like to see at the Expo? (Please bear in mind that things like Ski & Snowboard simulators, personalities, etc do impact the cost of the ticket.)
BOOTHS AND NICE DISPLAYS FROM THE SKI RESORTS. I LIKE SIMULATORS OVER PERSONALITIES.
2) What location would best suit your needs? (Also bear in mind that location impacts ticket price.)
CURRENT LOCATION IS GREAT FOR ME, 2 MINUTES FROM WORK, 15 FROM HOME.
3) How did you hear about the Expo this year? (Newsprint, Internet, word of mouth, or other?)
PAST ATTENDANCE AND A MINOR BLURB IN THE PAPER
4) From 1 to 7 (7 Being Very Satisfied and 1 being Very Dissatisfied) Overall, how satisfied are you with the Expo?
3
5) How much would you pay for admission if you got everything that you wanted from the show?
WITH WHAT WE GET 10 IS FAIR, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE RESORTS WOULD NEED SOME WAY TO ATTRIBUTE A SALE TO THEIR PRESENSE AT THE SHOW.
6) How important are free lift tickets to your decision in coming to the show? (7 Being Very important and 1 being not important) 6
7) From 1 to 7 (7 Being Very important and 1 being not important) How important are the following:
a. Warren Miller Movie 7
b. Ski Sale 5
c. Mountain Exhibitor Booths 7
d. Seeing new gear and clothing 6
e. Venue Location 5
f. Onsite food cost 0
g. Free Parking 7
h. Things to Do 5
i. Other PRIZES AND MORE RESORT BOOTHS. 2 YEARS AGO IT WAS PRETTY GOOD
j. Whitetails Snow Cones 7

I think just reading the post will give some good ideas from diehards.

Great Post! Everyone please keep the posts coming! I need more like this. Good data points for my report. I have moved forward and created the following email box for folks to send the survey back to. If you have not posted responses to the forum please feel free to send them to response(AT)nationalskiexpo(DOT)com.

Replace the at and dot with @ and period. Please feel free to push this thread out to the net as I need as many response as possible to give credence to the survey and to give me a good sampling of the attendees. If I could get responses from 100 different people that would be excellent.
Thank you in advance for your help.

Vr PZ

Paul, you and I met and talked on Friday right before the first WM movie (I was the one right in front of the projector). I've been going to the expo for years and really enjoy it. However, this year I spent less time there than ever. I didn't mind the non-ski booths, but they would have seemed more acceptable if there were more ski booths.

First, as for the $10 admission - I wanted more but got my money's worth. As the others, I got a lift ticket, magazine subscription, and saw the WM movie. That was well worth my $10 and I sure hope the lift tickets remain a part of the show (I have a season pass for another resort so this gives me another ski day somewhere else).

The biggest disappointment was the lack of gear and resort booths. In the past, there were many resorts represented at the show but not so many this year. I had looked forward to talking to some of the out-west resort reps but without them, I was out of luck.

As far as the gear, this year I actually planned to buy some items. However, the selections were minimal with mostly demo equipment. I was out of luck on this also.

My suggestions:

1. A different location may help some but if the show offered much more, I think you'd hear less complaints on the location.

2. Provide many more ski resort booths. You need the reps from the major resorts. Like others said, basic info can be found on web sites, we need someone to talk to.

3. Need vendors of ski gear. You need to get the local shops involved. That way, people who buy also have a source to go back to for support (and other purchases). They should bring lots of gear and be willing to work with folks on what their needs are.

4. Absolute must - get the major ski/board/etc manufacturers there. Resorts have demo days - get those reps at your show with the latest gear and someone to talk about it. Just imagine if I could go talk with all these reps, see new gear, etc. That would really go a long way. After all - its a ski/board expo.

PS - will I be there next year, you bet (my subscription will have expired, ticket used up, and a new WM movie will be out)! However - give us lots of equipment and resort reps.

Thanks for listening and we look forward to the improvements.

halon73, many, many thanks for stepping up to the plate and offering to be the conduit for feedback. I was hoping we might be able to get through to someone, and this promises to exceed my hopes.



1) In list form what things would you like to see at the Expo? (Please bear in mind that things like Ski & Snowboard simulators, personalities, etc do impact the cost of the ticket.)

A) New alpine ski product samples and presentation speeches e.g.
Nordica XBS binding and how it fixes your skiing
Spray on waxes and how they make your life simpler
Helmet floor show (an entire size run of Giros for sizing and fit, say, with little take-home cards that identify helmet and size)
Skier's Edge or Fitter First demos
Walk-EZ demos (BYO ski boots)
Home hot waxing demo
ZipFit Liners/Boutique products
Jeannie Thoren, master bootfitters.


B) New other snowsport product samples and presentation speeches e.g.
Cross country skiing
Telemark skiing
Monoskiing/Tubing/InflatableSleds/Skwals/Teleboards/Snowshoes i.e. totally fringe technology we wouldn't know about otherwise.
Heck, invite the ice climbers, it's not like they have a big show to go to.

C) Related outdoor gear product samples and presentation speeches e.g.
GPS (here are our models, here is what is new, here is new stuff)
Winter walking boots
Gore-tex approved detergents
Jackets/gloves, materials, winter running gear (there were more than a few winter-related products at the Marine Corps Marathon Expo)
Inline skaters/grass skiers other OFF-season related sports

D) Warren Miller movie (we can pay for this)
E) Other movies from smaller production houses (we can pay for this too)
F) Ski stock sales from shops
G) Ski swap


2) What location would best suit your needs? (Also bear in mind that location impacts ticket price.)

Wherever one can find walk-in non-skiers. This would mean no gate charge, just like in the Ballston Mall years. I am willing to pay extra for the movie etc.

3) How did you hear about the Expo this year? (Newsprint, Internet, word of mouth, or other?)

I went and searched for it on the Internet because I knew it was usually scheduled at this time of year. Then it was confirmed by internet forums.

In prior years, I found out about it by reading local sports-related print, particularly the large Metro Sports expo guides.

4) From 1 to 7 (7 Being Very Satisfied and 1 being Very Dissatisfied) Overall, how satisfied are you with the Expo?

2

5) How much would you pay for admission if you got everything that you wanted from the show?

Nothing. My enjoyment of the show hinges on free admission and the excitement of being part of a huge body of people (who may have no previous interest in skiing). Low upfront cost is therefore of indirect but paramount importance.

I am willing to pay as I go for value-added items I can watch (movies), participate in, or learn from.

6) How important are free lift tickets to your decision in coming to the show? (7 Being Very important and 1 being not important)
4
7) From 1 to 7 (7 Being Very important and 1 being not important) How important are the following:
a. Warren Miller Movie (7)
b. Ski Sale (7)
c. Mountain Exhibitor Booths (6)
d. Seeing new gear and clothing (7)
e. Venue Location (4)
f. Onsite food cost (3)
g. Free Parking (2)
h. Things to Do (6)
i. Other (7) : (Fill in): see list above. _

P. !
did you really think of all that on the fly?!?!??!?! OMG brainiac that was pretty hoopy thinking! Dayum ....

Rite-on !!!!

1) In list form what things would you like to see at the Expo? (Please bear in mind that things like Ski & Snowboard simulators, personalities, etc do impact the cost of the ticket.)

How To clinics on basic ski wax jobs. Simple melt/scrape technique that you can do in a hotel room before shredding the resort the next morning and/also trail side cross country wax technique from hard blue to gooey kilster wax.

How to clinic on edge tuning with hand files. Just how to de bur, put a decent edge on your sticks after the freeze cycle of eastern hardpack resort ice skiing

Boot fitters/thermo liner bakers

SKI and accessory VENDORS SELLING THE GOODS (I guess that would be a "7" on the scale) This would include TELEMARK (my passion), cross country, boarders, sliders, slippers, alpine...the gammet..it's a ski expo..

2) What location would best suit your needs? (Also bear in mind that location impacts ticket price.)

My back yard is nice, but seriously, I don't mind the location so much. I drive 6 hours to go to Gauley Fest every year for the past 7 years (they have a TON of vendors, live music...)

3) How did you hear about the Expo this year? (Newsprint, Internet, word of mouth, or other?)

Didn't go this year due to my experience last year..but I heard about it via newspaper clip and this website

4) From 1 to 7 (7 Being Very Satisfied and 1 being Very Dissatisfied) Overall, how satisfied are you with the Expo?

2

5) How much would you pay for admission if you got everything that you wanted from the show?

10 bucks is about my limit I think. It would have to be a kick ass expo complete with big name speakers telling tales of far off expeditions to the manky mank (like the dude that rag dolled the Orient Express on Denali while filming PW06), live music etc for me to pay more.

6) How important are free lift tickets to your decision in coming to the show? (7 Being Very important and 1 being not important) ____

3...it would be a higher score if you could let the consumer chose which resort...some folks are travelers, they head up to New England. Other folks are local shredders tearing up Whitetail/Liberty...and everything in between. I understand you can't give out tickets to all these places. Maybe a booth set up where the Expo controls the outflow of tickets...maybe taking down names/addresses and mailing the ticket to their address to prevent abuse/scamming the system. (also would pad your mailing list to make announcments for future shows)

7) From 1 to 7 (7 Being Very important and 1 being not important) How important are the following:
a. Warren Miller Movie (_2__) Warren Miller lost it's draw for me years ago after he sold to his son. Change the movie to MSP, TGR, MeatHead Films..some smaller, more core company would dramatically increase my grade
b. Ski Sale (_7__)
c. Mountain Exhibitor Booths (_4__) The "shells" who typically show up at expos are usually some underpaid resort flunky who is stuck traveling away from home. I have found conversation with these folks to be as informative as their brocheure, as they usually refer to it to answer my questions. Other words, I value the internet, discussion on chat forums and most of all, snow fall reports to mold my decisions of where to spend my resort dollars
d. Seeing new gear and clothing (_7__)
e. Venue Location (_1__)
f. Onsite food cost (_1__)
g. Free Parking (_5__) I would weight the parkig fee. Like I said..10 bucks is about my limit to spend for an expo admission. If you want to charge five for admission and five for parking, that's cool. But you start tacking on fees and running the cost up, I'll just go bug the guys at Ski Center

h. Things to Do (_7__) How to clinics, film screenings, demos, boot fitting
i. Other (___) : (Fill in):___________________

I think I read somewhere that there are around 6 million people living in the Council of Government region (greater Washington Metro area). Even if you can motivate 1 percent of them to show, that's 60,000 people. I don't know your usual numbers, but I would venture, you don't quite make that.

hope that helps

Steve
Steve

First of all, thanks for coming on here and taking our comments. I had a terrible experience this year so while my comments will be negative, I think the audience here are the absolutely top level ski junkies, so hopefully there's some good input for you to take out.

1) In list form what things would you like to see at the Expo? (Please bear in mind that things like Ski & Snowboard simulators, personalities, etc do impact the cost of the ticket.)

Actual GEAR. Not to rehash my other posts but a "ski expo" really should have some vendors selling skis and other equipment. I dont count a stall where you can go and look at pictures of a guys skis, or see one jacket they are selling. Where are the big areas where I can try on boots, or helmets, or check out the newest skis and goggles? When there are as many large ski vendors (1) as cookware vendors (1) at a "ski expo" thats a big problem!

If you are interested, I would encourage you to go to the golf expo this year to see how they run things. Probably 50+ vendors with tons of gear to look at. All the local shops are represented with clubfiters, sales reps, repair guys etc. Demonstrations running all day long. Big corporations have all their new products to touch and feel. They have "personalities" too - famous teachers, long drive guys, local pros. There's a bay where you can take videotaped lessons, a station where you can enter long drive contests, tons of space to hands on demo the newest gear, numerous putting green areas and contests - a whole ton of cool things.

http://www.northcoastgolfshows.com/cns_index.html - click Washington - floor plan there as well as a list of past vendors.

And come on, I just dont buy the "If you want more it will cost more" argument for one second - the golf show does all this for $9! Plus you got the free mag subscriptions and a free golf club coupon at the door!

Where were the vendors this year? Manufacturers?

More importantly, where were the local ski shops? Is there a reason they didnt want to come this year (IE - the booth price that they were charged went up?). Places like Ski Center, Ski Chalet, Willies any local place is a must have for an expo like this. An absolute must. I'm not going to call the pots and pans guy when I need my bindings tweaked ;-)

And what about the Western/Canadian resorts that always had huge booths here? Whistler, the Utah resorts they always had a big presence here. Real disappointing in the non-local resort turnout this year.

And not to beat a dead horse, but space filling with things that have nothing to do with skiing hold no interest to me. I know that selling space is a priority in paying for a show and their checks cash just as good, but especially in a year when the expo was obviously barren with ski vendors it stinks.

Great suggestion in regards to a helmet fitter with take home cards. Nike does this with their clubfitters. You get fit for the club, can try everything right there, then they give you a form filled out with all your info and what you need - you dont have to buy it there but at least you have that option. A good idea there.

I mean, whats changed in the past few years? Didnt the ski expo used to be in a much larger space? Is the price that you are being charged and therefore have to charge vendors going up? Is there no interest in the industry in taking part? Something has to have changed because the golf show is doing much more for less $ (OK yeah its only $1) but not less with more $. To me there has to be a reason for these glaring holes in the expo and more often than not its $$$.

2) What location would best suit your needs? (Also bear in mind that location impacts ticket price.)

Doesnt really matter to me to be honest. Dulles is 30 min away but for a GOOD expo I would drive anywhere. If they moved the golf expo to north of Baltimore I would still drive there because I know how good it is.

3) How did you hear about the Expo this year? (Newsprint, Internet, word of mouth, or other?)

Internet.

4) From 1 to 7 (7 Being Very Satisfied and 1 being Very Dissatisfied) Overall, how satisfied are you with the Expo?

1

5) How much would you pay for admission if you got everything that you wanted from the show?

$10 is the max. Again, if the golf expo can do all that for $9, thats the absolute gold standard.

And I know this will sound absurd but I dont care if I get $50 worth of "stuff" for my money - so people can say well you got $50 for $10 thats a good deal. Its not. I already get the magazines. I dont ski a lot locally so the passes dont affect me per se. I would rather get in to the show for free, have no magazine, no free lift tickets and pay $5 to see the movie. Charge me to see the movie and the simulator or whatever else you have.

6) How important are free lift tickets to your decision in coming to the show? (7 Being Very important and 1 being not important) ____

4

7) From 1 to 7 (7 Being Very important and 1 being not important) How important are the following:

a. Warren Miller Movie (2) - Agree that this movie has gone downhill in the past few years. Love watching it as its sort of a ritual now, but if it wasnt there I wouldnt be heartbroken.

b. Ski Sale - Are you talking skis being on sale or the ski swap? If its the swap a 0. Most of the stuff I saw there was REALLY used.

c. Mountain Exhibitor Booths (3) - Disappointed in the non-local turnout.

d. Seeing new gear and clothing (10) - By far the most important thing about going to an expo is being able to touch and see new gear. Stuff like trail maps I can get online.

e. Venue Location (2) - Again would drive just about anywhere for a top flight expo
f. Onsite food cost (0) - Dont go there to eat so dont much care.
g. Free Parking (5) - Nice to have, not a requirement

And in all seriousness, wanted to add one big pet peeve. Friday around 5pm it seemed like the place was only half setup. If you arent going to be setup by the time you start charging people, then charge half price. Or give them their money back when you can see that its not ready for people to come in. There were a half dozen of the booths that were barely setup, or unmanned, or flat empty with placeholder signs. I mean cripes, why not just wait until Saturday to open? For me this was the worst part, bein charged for the expo is one thing and we can debate what was there vs what wasnt, but to be charged full price and then have vendors that just didnt give a sh** enough to be there and be setup was just lousy.

Anyway, thanks for coming on here, its really nice to know that at least our comments are being heard if nothing else ;-) Unless I heard of sweeping changes, I wouldnt go back next year. Unless of course dcski members were provided with some free passes for the feedback they provided (cough cough cough)

I have just a couple of thoughts about the Ski Show.

1. Everyone keeps referring to the Golf Show and how great it is. Keep in mind the difference in the number of people who call themselves golfers there are in this region and the number of people who call themselves skiers. It is far larger than the amount of skiers. I know a ton of people who play golf year round here. The sport of Golf also does a very good job through television and magazines that next years gear is far superior to what they currently have in their bag. I am willing to bet that a golf show in Upstate New York would have less of an audience than a ski show there.

2. The question has been raised why the other ski shops do not participate. Every year there is one shop that gets to set up a shop during the show. When the Ski Show was in Balston Mall, I believe it was Inner Ski (Are they still in business)? Any other shop that paid money seemed to get not much out of it. They are paying money to have and be a part of a Ski Show, where the competition is taking in money. I believe that the same can be said for the Dulles location.

3. People also talk about how they want the manufacturers to be there, so they can see and try on the products. Someone suggested that they give out cards with the correct information on it, so they can go buy it. Let me explain why this doesn't work. The local Ski Rep is a dying breed. The Representatives from the companies have a limited geographic region. In that region they get a percentage of the skis or products that are sold to the retail stores. The vast majority of the time, the rep has to buy all of their sample and demo skis and products that they then bring to demos or shows. It has been stated on this message board over and over how much cheaper it is to buy goods over the internet. So, they pay money to have a booth and staff to man it. The attendees of the show find exactly what they need and then scour the internet or Dick's Sporting Goods for the lowest price. Just so you know, the reps do not usually get a nickel from product that is sold to the Box stores, even if they are in his or her region.

4. Lastly, I agree with some of the people who have posted that the Ski Show should be free and in a location where non-skiers or those who are not as passionate about the sport as the people here can get fired up about skiing. I really did like the layout when it was at Balston Commons Mall. I live just across the river from DC and Dulles is a long way to go to spend $10.

Viva Borracho

Great points, thanks for the info. I guess my response would be if as the director of the show you decide that you cant/wont have local stores there and cant/wont have national manufacturers - then whats the point of having an expo at all? In my mind, an expo by definiton has these things. Dont have one just to have one if you have all these limitations. Otherwise advertise that you are having a Ski Swap and throw in some resort reps at the same time.

As for the golf expo, my only point is that they are able to do these things in the same bad location in the offseason. Is it simply because of the number of people they can get? It doesnt sound like it. I wonder if the golf sales business is really as a whole that much different from the skirep business - and thats the reason no one will come to a ski show? I dont think it is. I know a ton of guys in the industry and it doesnt sound like fun to work a show, but they all do it anyway. The regional reps I know have a lot of same restrictions on them (IE - buying their own stuff and lugging it around). Yet they all setup massive booths at the golf expo. Why is this? These industries have very similar sales models, is it because the ski business as a whole just doesnt churn enough business to make it worth while? I dont know.

I wasnt clear though, is it accurate to say that it sounds like in the case of the local shops, this is a decision that someone behind the ski show makes - to only have one large shop - and this drives the other stores away?

If thats true, that is really, really sad.

The old saying seems to be applied very literally when I say "ask and ye shall receive". It's going to take me some time to distill the comments so far. But this is a great start!

Reply to all,

I'd like to float a totally different idea. How about a ski film festival at one of the megaplex theaters that have become so popular. You could have a dozen ski films for all audiences running in 6 theaters and roll through them 3 times in one long day. Most of the other ideas here seem beyond practical reach, but I believe this could be made to work.

Much as I would like that (can you imagine Banff Mountain films with a second DC showing? OOOO) it doesn't speak to the esential touchy feely move-around and paw through things need. A little too like trapped in a chair, for my own part anyway.

Whatever about a megaplex, might be a tough sell to get them to give you 6 screens for a day but maybe if you talked to the Cinema Drafthouse in Arlington. How fun would that be? an afternoon of ski-porn and beer.

Arlington Draft House just did a 10 pm showing of PW06 last Friday. The house was pretty full.

I dunno....I went to the Draft house, first time going there. I guess I expected a little time to sit around and chat/drink/eat with friends before and after the showing. That's not the case. They keep the "window" of the showing fairly short so they can get more shows in. Makes sense for running the business I suppose but I was a little bummed.

Good movie though.

I don't know if I would go to a megaplex for a day of ski porn. I love porn as much as the next guy but (I realize it's blashemy) it gets old after an hour or so. Much more enjoyable in small, delicious pieces spread out over time. Like a fine/expensive bourbon. Doesn't do anyone any good to chug the whole bottle of 75 dollar booze.

Steve

Ski porn is just like regular porn. After about an hour of viewing, you get tired of watching others have all the fun...

Hello all, I just wanted to let you folks know that I have a meeting today to discuss the issues that were raised on the forum from this past years show. Like I said before I can't promise anything but I will make your concerns heard. As for me I am heading out to Colorado next week to get some powder skiing in! Cheers, PZ

Make a few runs for us - have fun!

halon73, it seems an appropriate time to ask how the meeting went?