Ski Binding Setting..OK? NEED ADVICE
November 28, 2006
I picked up my Volant Power Carves tonight from XXX ski shop. I am a 65 year young advanced skier (a 2+ on the three level scale). I weigh 180. Anyway, up to last year my binding settings had been "6", but I noted that it slipped to "5.5", probably due to age. Anyway, when I picked up my skis tonight the manager showed me the settings in the window of each binding and was surprised to find one toe binding showing a setting of "7". He checked the ticket that showed my setting should be "5.5". He went back into the shop and eventually came out to tell me that the computer that checks the settings was showing that one ski had to be "set" on "7" to achieve a "5.5" release DIN. Thus all was OK? Perhaps one of my springs was a bit worn causing the situation.
Has anyone else ever had this happen? Does it make sense? While I "trust" the tech, I am a bit nervous with the explanation.
In addition the shop decided not to stone grind my edges since they felt the bases were getting a bit thin. Anyone head of this?
Any advice from ex techies out there????
The Colonel
Colonel I'm not a big techie but I'll give you what little bit of misinformation I can.
As far as your bases go, they eventually will get thin and stone grinding will not be helpful at some point (and will be hurtful). You have apparently reached that phase.
That DIN setting doesn't make much sense. I'm not techie enough to know if that's true or not. But if it is, it may be time for new bindings (or maybe skis and bindings) for safety sake. How old are those skis?
this *definitly* can happen. In material science this is called "creep" and most elastic materials will exhibit it at some level of stress. Metals have a certain threshold where if exceeded, they will, over time, permanetly deform. Think of it like Silly Putty ... if you roll it up in a ball and leave it it will slowly flatten out. Even glass will "creep" over time, as can be seen in very old (100+ years) windows.
Generally, "consumer" level binding springs will creep over time. That is why on most tuning sheets they have two values for DIN ; indicated and observed. They can be different.
The only binding that do not exhibit spring creep too much are "greenspring" bindings usually racing binding that go up to a DIN of 20 or so. They are all metal and somewhat difficult to find. But they last quite a long time.
... now I have to go play "body slalom" at The Canyons it's real crowded because there are only a few trails open.
In a dispute between what the "DIN" window shows as a setting and what the calibrated release tester determines is the appropriate torque,
The calibrated release tester must win every time.
Why?
Because, except for very recent Atomic bindings new from the factory, the "DIN" scale scribed on the window is
only the factory's best estimate of what torque values are correct for that general class of unit, not the specific one
It is quite possible, probable even that the unit itself was never tested before it left the factory, and that the Wintersteiger Speedtronic or whatever equivalent the shop used is the most accurate measure of release values that binding will ever encounter.
Most especially so because it tests the binding with -your- boots clamped inside. In fact, I would ask whether they are close to the limit of acceptable wear.
PS Be very careful with the thin bases unless you are ready to replace the skis.
Wax them even more than before. When bases get that thin, water can easily penetrate and almost peel the thin plastic off the base. Gouges that occur become hard to repair as there is far less surrounding plastic for the repair to hold onto.
I have seen "renewed" bases where a strip of material was glued over the entire base, but that doesn't really work well, IMO (I am trying to smooth out a sketchy set of them now).
Comprex this has been very educational. Thanks for correcting me as I would have hated for the colonel to take my bad advice (hence the disclaimer beforehand)
You called it right, Roy, sometimes it takes something like this to remind us that our gear wears out quicker than we do.
I did use that excuse to buy new skis for this season. After 160 days in 2 years (full time ski instructor), I noticed my skis last season on day 3 that they had absolutely no life to them and had gone flat.
But I'm not complaining. I hope I wear these new ones out in 3 years.
For what it's worth, I have always read that it is much better to have your skis checked by the machine and the DIN set that way, then just relying on the numbers in the window. Also remember that DIN settings are all relative - if you would get over that 2+ hump
and suddenly become a 3 the recommended DIN setting would probably go up to a true 7 from the 5.5 for a 2+. I wouldn't worry about it, but I would keep it in the back of my mind (as you would after any DIN check/change) and see if they release when you think they should (not too early/late).
Clay
Clay,
I am not worried about the "Type II" hump. I ski pretty well in most all conditions. My situation is aging legs (65) that don't like rough conditions and bumps. And I am not in the greatest shape. So saying I am a "II" is probably reasonable...I can ski the groomed, powder, and crud much like a "III" but I tire easily.
Thus the "II" level. Make sense?
The Colonel
Colonel,
I understand completely. I guess I was just trying to make the point that the DIN is fairly arbitrary and relative and just used the Type II vs III as an example. I guess my bottom line is with any piece of machinery, I would rather have it calibrated by another machine than relying on a plastic point in a window
Clay
Sounds right to me regarding the binding settings.
If your bases are that thin, it probably means you are getting your skis stone ground too often. I do all my tuning at home, and would only go for a stone grind at a shop in the rare cases where the bases get way out of whack. So far that has not happened. When I used to get shop tunes many years ago, however, the bases would get thin after a few years. They can really take a lot of life off your ski.
So if possible, avoid frequent base grinds. If there is a way to get the shop to simply do edge tunes, the bases will last a lot longer -- in fact this skis will go out of style or lose their spring far before the edges and bases wear out.
Unfortunately, not all shops will do edge tunes. Most take the lazy approach and simply run the skis through the machine. That is overkill in most cases.
I won't do a stone grind on my skis. I did it once and they really did a number on my skis. There were spots that were really shaved thin. That's when I learned to do it myself (maybe not the greatest job but cheaper and I haven't ruined a ski yet).
hey - what do you use to file the edges? i'm just using a straight file but was sort of wondering if some fancy edge tool might be better?
oh, this thread is about bindings. hmmm. i always set mine lower than i think i need and can't really say i have had an early release problem (no pun jokes there). i think most people, including myself, ski mostly at about five tenths rather than nine tenths. whenever i go to nine tenths, something else bad happens anyway, like a sprained shoulder last year.
Some of the edge tools are decent, but I have had the best luck with files and diamond stones clamped in file guides, same as the pro tuners use. For instance:
https://www.artechski.com/Merchant2/merc...tegory_Code=043The guide basically just positions the file/stone at the correct side edge angle.
For the bases, I freehand it, but there are also file guides for setting the base edge angles. Fortunately, I rarely need to maintain base edges -- the sides take all the abuse.
