Last weekend for the season????
April 14, 2007
58 posts
17 users
31k+ views
Based on the weather forecast and what I observed at 7-S today, I would say that a number of ski areas might close for the season after this weekend. I think that 7-S is good for another week or so, but I'm guessing that things don't look too hot (no pun intended) for several other ski areas.
Well, I am fairly confident once again tline will be just fine til their closing the weekend of the 31st. I also think they could still have several runs open longer but as always they will just close shop til next year.
You sure about that? I think that it's all going to depend on how much rain they get.
Have to agree with skiTLINE, several runs were skiable well into late April last year, and many years before that too. Timberline will be just fine.
Amazing, it sounds like T-line holds snow about as well as the basin side of the Shoe.
Ck out the DCSki Snowshoe F-cast Mr. M-asive M-elt...Cold this aft with high of 0!
You want to see a WV area that is almost GW proof? CK out the pic at
whitegrass go to the daily report/Photo page & scroll down till you see a picture of the Mount Porte crayon/Flatrock Bowl....Ive seen that bowl hold snow into May!! That is where the "Almost Heaven" ski area needs to be...Or maybe that can be a BackBowl to the main bowl...HHMMMM...stay tuned!
It just fixed itself...It did say high of 0
We used to do a "may day slalom" in the valley. You may have had to hike a litle to get up or down but we wern't mud chickens. I've seen piles of snow at t-line on memorial day. Not skiable, but snow just the same. I've also experienced snow on top in June. No, t-line will have very adequate cover on 4-1-07 for all to ski.
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Amazing, it sounds like T-line holds snow about as well as the basin side of the Shoe.
Just curious Masher....you ever been to timberline??? Its nothing like 7springs. Nothing against the springs but just wondering.
TLine in feb got atleast a "trace" amount of snow everyday. Of the 28 days 14 of them got atleast 2+. Maybe you should read the article on the Upslope effect as relates to the valley. Nice read and it then makes it easy to uinderstand why the valley has gotten 154inches thus far and can hold this snow even during warmups.
This time of year is why i dont bitch about when timberline doesnt open early. They focus on bulding a maintainable base for exactly this reason. While all others are racing to see who can open first they are generally the same ones closing first.
This warm spell is having a tough enough time defeating the natural snow on the ground. Still 9" at 3700' as of this morning.
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Amazing, it sounds like T-line holds snow about as well as the basin side of the Shoe.
Just curious Masher....you ever been to timberline??? Its nothing like 7springs. Nothing against the springs but just wondering.
TLine in feb got atleast a "trace" amount of snow everyday. Of the 28 days 14 of them got atleast 2+. Maybe you should read the article on the Upslope effect as relates to the valley. Nice read and it then makes it easy to uinderstand why the valley has gotten 154inches thus far and can hold this snow even during warmups.
This time of year is why i dont bitch about when timberline doesnt open early. They focus on bulding a maintainable base for exactly this reason. While all others are racing to see who can open first they are generally the same ones closing first.
Well so far no one has closed.
Slope aspects and altitude are what determines how long the snow lasts. 7S and Tline are very similar. Both hills are north facing. The only big difference is that the top of 7S is at 2990. The bottom of TLine is at like 3000FT so its not that surprising that Tline holds snow a little better.
Both hills are capable of staying open until April. Last year Bushwacker posted a video of him at 7S skiing piles of snow in June. 7S gets more terrain open quicker (many weeks quicker) and keeps it open longer each season than T-Line. If they close sooner its like a week sooner. No big deal.
I have skied a foot of new powder in the Whitegrass backcountry at end of Mar. or beginning of Apr in 3 of the past 5 years. Winter always seems to make a determined last stand in the highlands. It is too soon for the Last stand but I have a strong suspicion that we will get 3-6" of "upslope" (orographically enhanced) snow on Fri. night. It will almost certainly snow some and at 4000 ft. on the Allegheny Front it should be significant.
Then, in another 2 weeks or so, I expect to see the last stand snow. OTOH I skied TL on Apr. 19 in 2003(?) when the man-made glacier was coated with 4" of new powder, on Apr. 27 in 2005 and have skinned it for 200 vertical foot laps at the top of The Drop in May 2004.
Denis, was it June of 2003 when it snowed in CV and Whitegrass posted the photos of folks skiing on the inch or two they got? I remember their heading was like "so much for summer... let it snow!" It was some June, I think it was 2003.
Darn, I missed a chance to ski!
I don't remember it. Have to ask Chip.
Tell you what, if there are opportunities for post-closing hike/ski laps, I would be interested in meeting up for that. I'll even lug in the beer/snacks! I have been looking for opportunities to do a hike/ski and post-season is the best bet if there is any base remaining. Though I do have rock skis too...
I've already made tentative plans with my wife for a mid-april hiking trip/earn your turns trip out to the valley, and would definitely be interested in meeting up with others.
Yes, I've skied T-Line many times and it's awesome! However, it would be nice if the lifts were a bit faster. I was last in CV a couple of weeks ago and the skiing was very good overall. My father started skiing at CV in the 50s at Cabin Mountain. Chip has an old ski movie showing skiing at CV in the 50s; I think that the movie was filmed by the DC Ski Club.
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Tell you what, if there are opportunities for post-closing hike/ski laps, I would be interested in meeting up for that. I'll even lug in the beer/snacks! I have been looking for opportunities to do a hike/ski and post-season is the best bet if there is any base remaining. Though I do have rock skis too...
Do you read minds? I have been really wanting to do some hiking/skiing. In fact my friend made fun of me and called me stupid when I told him yesterday that I planned to. Make sure to PM me and include me in this venture. I am definitely game!!
Your link didn't work Andy (or maybe it's just my computer). You mean
this legend of photography, right? If so, that was a different year. Snow in May one year, snow in June another... and I remember one year when I was younger- sometime back in the mid or late 1980s- when Canaan Valley got a surprise 14 inch snowstorm on April 30th. Whitegrass afficiandos I spoke to the following year say they did a little bit of skiing on May 1st after that storm, but then the snow was gone.
Must be your Computer cuz.. it works for me..but it doesn't matter you got the same pic! Can you visualize the runs off of that Bowl? Lot of dips & turns..A good variety of terrain.Wish I knew how to draw some runs onto the pic & post it
OK fellas, let's move that discussion over here to see if we can set something up:
Post season hike/ski
Obviously must be a night picture since I see nothing but black.
The Colonel
Yah..I'm a Friggin Computer Genious!(My Computer at home pulls it up??!)..All you need is some smart friends like mr. Z to help you out...Link on to Rogers pic Colonel Sir. My pic was framed in Brown which highlighted the Green & white on the Mtn Better than Rogers pic Though
..Close but no Cigar...
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I have skied a foot of new powder in the Whitegrass backcountry at end of Mar. or beginning of Apr in 3 of the past 5 years. Winter always seems to make a determined last stand in the highlands. It is too soon for the Last stand but I have a strong suspicion that we will get 3-6" of "upslope" (orographically enhanced) snow on Fri. night. It will almost certainly snow some and at 4000 ft. on the Allegheny Front it should be significant.
Then, in another 2 weeks or so, I expect to see the last stand snow. OTOH I skied TL on Apr. 19 in 2003(?) when the man-made glacier was coated with 4" of new powder, on Apr. 27 in 2005 and have skinned it for 200 vertical foot laps at the top of The Drop in May 2004.
Just looking through some old posts and I found this. Denis made this prediction on the 14th of March. I would say that he was most definitely right on. Do we perhaps have a snow prophet here on DCSki? I am sure that some people in this thread would like to take back some predictions that they made...but I won't go there! Hail to the WV Alpps!! (that's for you Andy!)
Hey David, HAIL? to the WV Alpps? We don't want hail we want Powder!
..Powder to the Alpps! Long live the Alpps!
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Hey David, HAIL? to the WV Alpps? We don't want hail we want Powder! ..Powder to the Alpps! Long live the Alpps!
Sorry about that. I wasn't even thinking. Powder to the Alpps!!
BTW..I have been thinking about letting you know some info that I heard a few weeks back, but I didn't know a good thread to put it in. Since this thread is dead I guess it would be a good one. It has to do with these great Alpps..
A few weeks ago this guy from the WV Wilderness Coalition came and spoke at my college about their proposed wilderness campaign. I got to looking at the info that he gave out and also at their website ( wvwild.org ) and it looks like their proposed area for the Roaring Plains could in fact include MPC. If they would happen to get this proposal approved (which would literally take an act of US congress) it would greatly restrict ANY access to that area. Not even so much as a mountain bike would be allowed, let alone a new ski resort. They have a lot of areas proposed, so I doubt all we be passed, but if the Roaring Plains proposal was passed then there would be no chance of an Almost Heaven Resort. What are your takes on this? Do you or anyone else know about this campaign and have I finally "got in the loop" with this info or is it relatively unknown? Your thoughts...
P.S. Here is the map of all of the proposed wilderness areas: Proposed WV Wilderness Areas
This campaign has been around awhile. At least four or five years. The mountain bike issue has been a pretty vigorous debate about expanding the Dolly Sods Wilderness north to Bear Rocks- bikers can access the land now and don't want to lose that access. I think there's also some discussion at the national level to amend the wilderness act to allow bikes in wilderness areas, but it's been pretty low-level (I think).
I really think that if done well, this ski area can be developed without imposing on the environment too much. I support both sides of the coin here -- as much as I am concerned about the environment, I think the hills of MPC would make an awesome ski area (and dammit I love skiing!). I sure hope they can pull it off. It just requires some sensible planning all around.
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I really think that if done well, this ski area can be developed without imposing on the environment too much. I support both sides of the coin here -- as much as I am concerned about the environment, I think the hills of MPC would make an awesome ski area (and dammit I love skiing!). I sure hope they can pull it off. It just requires some sensible planning all around.
I am with you. I hate nothing more than to see blatant disregard for the environment. I would doubt that this would be the case for this area, but I feel that it would be somewhat of a challenge to get a ski resort in this area due to so many hoops having to be jumped through. On the other hand, there is nothing I would rather be doing than skiing....so I say lets give it a shot. Oh yeah, ski resort = good, snowmobiles running around wild = bad. I read in an issue of Skiing a few months back that a 2-stroke snowmobile emits more pollution in 8 hrs than a compact car does in an entire year...that could spark a huge GW debate in itself... 
There are two other things to consider here. First, if there is any national forest land involved, the USFS will want a demonstration that there is demand for the product being offered. They're likely to be skeptical if all the resort is going to do is draw existing skiers away from other ski areas.
On the other hand, if Bill Bright owns the land outright, and there is potentially a huge fight waiting to build a ski area, he might just say "screw it" and build a gigantic housing development instead (on his own land). Given a choice between a ski resort going up the side of MPC or a residential subdivision consuming the entire side of MPC, I'll take the former any day. I seriously doubt there won't be real estate built with the ski resort, but the skiing could reduce how far up the mountainside the real estate goes and, heck, at least with skiing the trails are still open for public use.
On the whole, though, I'd prefer to see nothing go there. But I find it a worthwhile exercise to think through "what if" scenarios to see what the "second-best" (or maybe "second-preferred" is better word choice) outcome is.
I seriously doubt that the region can support another ski area, especially one of any serious size. The market is saturated. Just my $.02. Maybe once Corridor H is finished it would make sense. Until then I doubt much will happen.
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I seriously doubt that the region can support another ski area, especially one of any serious size. The market is saturated. Just my $.02. Maybe once Corridor H is finished it would make sense. Until then I doubt much will happen.
I have thought the same thing, but people are still snapping up new real estate (very expensive real estate) at Snowshoe with no end in sight. I don't think a ski-only resort could make it (not long term) but one coupled with real estate could probably do quite well. I would prefer no real estate myself (certainly not like Wintergreen where it feels like skiing through condo developments) but if a small amount of real estate development can sustain the resort, that might make it feasible. I don't know, there are a lot of ifs. Personally, I have selfish motivations as I would like to see more ski areas in WV, especially ones with more vertical drop available.
Ok, I cannot resist. It's not just vertical - shoe has misleading vert. You want one lift ride serving top-2-bottom trails for multiple abilities which might require monster amounts of snowmaking to be practical. Without seeing actual dev plans for MPC we don't know what they have in mind.
AFAIK, another sticking point is that although Bright has options for most of the land, he does/did not have the parcel that runs to the summit. And further it appears they wanted USFS approval for a mountain (plateau) top infrastructure.
I guess what I am saying is that I would love see a big vert splot in the Canaan area, but I am not encouraged by the way this one has proceeded. Until then, what is there is not bad skiing at all.
How about that north face of Brierpatch mountain - 1700' vert right down to Harman ? Looks good to me.
and hey! I thought those condos at Wintergreen were going to become terrain elements - sort of concrete glades.
I hope they do not put the infrastructure up top (like Snoswhoe) -- it really seems ridiculous to me. Now in the case of Snowshoe there was more space up top and limited space on the bottom, so maybe there was some reasoning. But I much prefer ski areas with the normal layout of all the crap at the bottom. Why fight gravity for every morsel that has to get trucked in?
Here's a shot of MPC from Google Earth (viewed from North) -- anybody know where the trails might go?
Also, look in the upper right -- WHAT is THAT? I zoomed in and looked at sat photos, and see what looks like ski trails and lift lines. A long lost ski area? One that never made it out of the gate?
That is never-opened Tory mountain, subject of much speculation. It coulda been a contendah.
Is that google earth pro ? I don't remember such high res images, but I have not looked in a long time. IIRC, the land is somewhere to the right on a west flank.
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Also, look in the upper right -- WHAT is THAT? I zoomed in and looked at sat photos, and see what looks like ski trails and lift lines. A long lost ski area? One that never made it out of the gate?
What a waste huh? Lets go half and half on the land and open up our own ski resort. The trails are already cut!! Ok, back to reality...I am planning a hike up there sometime over the summer (assuming there aren't thousands of NO TRESPASSING signs). I'll be interested to see just how things look up there.
That's the free Google Earth.
Ah Tory mtn, I remember hearing talk about that. Pity it never opened. Even seems to be a building at the top.
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What a waste huh? Lets go half and half on the land and open up our own ski resort. The trails are already cut!!
No kiddin! Hey, it might cost less than buying a ski condo...
don't you all have a job
Tory was bought by the Wisp people...still in contention! The huge N facing bowl to the left side of MPC is the place to build..red tape problems there though. The main smaller bowl would have some steeps...& the slopes hold snow.looking live up there & if you have a good view you can see all the variety of terrain..the powder stashes ect..' I look up there an Imagine my Fav run down the Mtn. I see where at certain points I could peel off of one run & down off of a diff side. I call one such drop off, 'little tucks"
...WV needs only one more MTn..The best..we don't need any more shoes or TL's. My main worry is that a smaller Mtn will beat the best mt to the punch & that will forever leave The WV Alpps 3/4 assed. & trust me ...there will be another mt sooner or later...lets hope for the best..don't settle for the 2nd or 3rd best...get-r-DONE!
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don't you all have a job Tory was bought by the Wisp people...still in contention! The huge N facing bowl to the left side of MPC is the place to build..red tape problems there though. The main smaller bowl would have some steeps...& the slopes hold snow.looking live up there & if you have a good view you can see all the variety of terrain..the powder stashes ect..' I look up there an Imagine my Fav run down the Mtn. I see where at certain points I could peel off of one run & down off of a diff side. I call one such drop off, 'little tucks" ...WV needs only one more MTn..The best..we don't need any more shoes or TL's. My main worry is that a smaller Mtn will beat the best mt to the punch & that will forever leave The WV Alpps 3/4 assed. & trust me ...there will be another mt sooner or later...lets hope for the best..don't settle for the 2nd or 3rd best...get-r-DONE!
If I could harness your enthusiasm into my schoolwork and research, I would surely win the Nobel Prize one day. Until then I guess I will remain an unmotivated student who thinks of ways to miss class to go skiing without the grades suffering too bad. School is getting real tough right now because of my "lack of interest" during the winter months. Oh well...I guess you are only young once!!
The one thing I've never cared for about MPC from a ski potential is the long ridges and narrow creek run-outs. You can kind of see it on that Googleearth image (Googleearth is so, so awesome) but the Terraserver topos really expose how flat those ridgelines are. This would likely result in either multi-lift/run segments to ski the full vert or LOTS of traverses, which would be hell in the wind or warm weather. The snow is undeniably great for the Mid-A but there are better skiers' faces to be had out there.
One of my favorites is the north face of Whitetop, Virginia. Entirely unbuildable but it would be a tremendous resort if that darn ice age all the scientists keep talking about
ever came into being. And then of course there's Buckhorn, aka Moonshine Mountain, aka the Mountain of Madness. Shame I don't have $1 billion dollars and unlimited development rights.
Oh well.
Folks, Rogerz is old School Dcski...Very Smart & should be respected. BUTTTTTTtttt..he is a little off. If we had to work with the Bowl & side he is refering to, the creek drainage is a little further down & the bowl a little larger than he would depict.We could have a solid very steep 1500' vert out of the main bowl,..a village at 4200' with north facing 1000 to 1200' vert drops(ski in/ski/out)off of that & some areas off of the north ridge that could work down to a bottom with 2000' vert. There would be alot of runs coming off the north ridge, but they would be south facing. BUTTTtttt these south facing slopes would still be 1200' higher than the top of Whitetail's slopes!...It is What it is & we need it! We love the slopes at CV but face reality.....we need more Vert! & we need the Variety!...++++ Snowshoe is really a southern Thang..DC needs MPC...Tory is "Allright" But basically a Higher & Bigger version of Whitetail...Steady fall line slopes that are a good workout...But BORE The Hell out of me!...don't believe the neg hype out of some of these good DCski folk...It Doen't snow as much there...There isn't enough water...the slopes arn't that long(Roger)...It will screw up the envirement....It would congest our peacefull Alpps...There is not enough Buis...I will answer every neg thought with a big...BS...Stay tuned!....PS MPC is the Snowiest mt in WV..Case closed....
One more neg hype..."The wind will blow all the snow off & turm everything into Boilerplate!"...I Have watched that MTN enough to know that is major BS. The wind Funnels thru this "Other valley" at a diff direction than thought.other than the very summit the rest would be protected by the 4200 foot ridges to MPC's SW....Landscaping is a real cure to any of the MTN's ill's!.....I need a drink!...I mean ..ANOTHER ONE!
I said that the north ridge slopes that would slope down on a south facing slope would be 1200' higher than Whitetails slopes...I Lied...Try 2500' higher...Any Questions your Honor!
Andy Andy Andy...
There's a squirrel eating the side of my house right now, so I'm a little distracted reading your posts, but perhaps we need some clarification from someone who knows more than either of us. WHICH side of MPC are the options held on, and how far up do they go? I thought they were here:
http://www.terraserver-usa.com/image.asp...cHarman%7cWV%7cOn the northwest side of MPC (directly north of Thunderstruck Rock) heading into the Dry Fork Run drainage. That could be incorrect.
The point is: where is the Teter property? What are we actually working with here? Anyone know?
Your point about MPC being the snowiest spot in WV: I agree. I have no evidence to back it up, but intuitively it makes sense. Less than 100 feet lower than Snowshoe but 40+ miles further north says "it snows a lot here." But as we know, natural snow is not what makes a Mid-A ski resort function. The question is the ability to blow snow, hold snow, and provide a great run in the process. I don't think this NW side does it, for reasons elaborated by me earlier (too long ridge, too narrow drainage), by others before (Johnfmh and his concerns about whether there is enough water), and by the former builder of Snowshoe who pointed out that this exposure faces dead into the prevailing winter wind.
Andy, your turn! Another eight posts, please!!!
(just joshin' with ya, Andy)
Roger, if it wasn't for your posts, Dcski would just be DCSKILIGHT...Now that our love fest is over,..what were you saying about a stranger(Snowshoe operative) saying about the wind? Please believe me when I say that the Wind blows SW thru the "Other valley' & that those 4200' ridges block a lot of that...How many(Big mtn) ski areas has anyone been to that doesn't blow? Think about it!....I just tagged you...your next!
Roger, Disregard any further posts by me..Alcohol! The NW side you speak of is what would I think is the desirable location, but who friggan knows! There has been so much secrecy about this project you would think it was the KGB investing!
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. Oh well...I guess you are only young once!!
well, its a long 'once', because ive been young for over 35 years now and dont see it really changing!
I shot the squirrel and I'm drinking my own share of the A-juice, Andy, so all I can say is... BBBBUUUURRRRRPPPPP... damn what were we talking about again??? Where's Jimmy to join this conversation now that it's taken a turn toward inebriation? Jimmy, should we get one of them there "Oh-ree-n-til" massage parlors at the base of MPC? Or was it a restaurant? I can never keep these things straight on a Thursday night...
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well, its a long 'once', because ive been young for over 35 years now and dont see it really changing!
No worries capn i suspect you'll grow up (not) to be just like me.
RogerZ who u callin a SQUIRREL???? Yah i'm (wuz) shot but not by u. Sorry I missed this lively discussion but i am(wuz) already passed over & out on the couch. Now what was it you all were,.....oh O-ree-N-tal, Eyaaah, another happy ending .
What!!!!!!!!!!! You started and didn't invite me????? Geeeeezzzhhhh! What's this site comin' 2?
See how much intellectualness I can add on a Thursday night? So Jimmy, all this talk about squirrels and Chinese food has me wondering... what IS in the "triple delight" out there in WV anyway???
Well, I think we've thoroughly scotched this topic. NEXT!!!
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Well, I think we've thoroughly scotched this topic. NEXT!!!
NONONO this topic is still alive, wut was it??? too much single malt.....oh yeh last weekend for the season?? Trying to calculate how much grief if i leave for sum KMart shopping tomorrow morning.
You all sound like you might be on some THC or PCP & Jimmi if you go K-Mart shopping..sounds like you risk being back shopping at DICKS & you might need some GOD while getting CPR
Thats of course assuming the grief you would get is coming from the other half.Could be your work..Dunno
