Charleston Gazette article

January 31, 2010
Delegate seeks commission to study new ski resort possibilities
By Rick Steelhammer
Staff writer
Advertiser
CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- Delegate John Doyle, D-Jefferson, is looking for the best places in West Virginia to go downhill fast.

As the lead sponsor of HB4192, Doyle seeks to create a West Virginia Ski Resort Industry Commission charged with, among other things, identifying promising locations for new ski resort developments and developing policies to encourage ski industry growth.


"There are dozens of places in West Virginia with elevations of more than 4,000 feet that would provide at least 1,500 feet of vertical drop," said Doyle, a ski instructor in his non-legislative life. "Even if just a few of them are eventually developed as ski areas, I'm convinced we could double the number of skiers that are coming here now."


Vertical drop is the distance between the summit and base of a mountain, measured straight down. If a ski run's top elevation is 4,000 feet and the elevation at its base is 1,000 feet, its vertical drop is 3,000 feet. The higher the vertical drop is, the longer and steeper a resort's ski and snowboard trails can be.


Snowshoe Mountain Resort's Western Territory runs, Cupp Run and Shay's Revenge, have vertical drops of about 1,500 feet, the biggest in the state. Timberline's top-to-bottom runs have a vertical drop of about 1,000 feet.


"We have something in West Virginia that the rest of the Mid-Atlantic lacks -- big vertical terrain in a snow belt," Doyle said. "We have several counties in our Eastern mountains with the potential to offer a product equaling what's available in New England. But we need more than two runs with more than 1,500 feet of vertical to compete with ski areas there and to the west."


By offering an abundance of longer and more challenging runs, "we could get the people who travel west or north to ski to come here for their big mountain skiing," Doyle said. "A lot of people in the Washington, D.C., area go to Pennsylvania to ski because they presume they'll find colder weather by traveling north. They don't realize we have colder mountain climates in our higher elevations. And there is nowhere in Pennsylvania with more than 1,000 feet of vertical."


Doyle's bill calls for creating a nine-member ski industry commission consisting of three delegates, three senators, two citizens with ski industry expertise, and the secretary of commerce or a designee.


The commission would issue a report on its findings and recommendations during the October 2011 interim meetings.


West Virginia's ski resorts currently draw more than 800,000 skier visits annually, pumping an estimated $250 million into the economy.


Reach Rick Steelhammer at rsteelham...@wvgazette.com or 304-348-5169.

Interesting find. Thanks for posting.

I love the sentiment but I am torn. I think it is always a bad idea in skiing to follow the principle of 'build it and they will come'.# I would love to see WV as a serious rival to New England in skiing both for selfish reasons and for my WV friends, who are many and treasured. The history of southern skiing is one of overambition followed by bankruptcy, and it has been repeated many times. The potential economic benefit to WV is huge but only if it succeeds. Boston and NY have far more skiers than DC/Baltimore and it is a lot easier drive to the ski areas. From Boston, you can reach many excellent areas in under 2.5 hrs. with no mountain road driving, and there are no upside down resorts with the base area at the top. From NY times are longer but still no mtn. roads. WV ski areas have followed economic difficulties with skiing by building golf courses but people won't come. They would rather drive several more hours on flat roads to the famous golf resorts of North Carolina. I hope people take a serious look at reality before they commit money.

My solution - If you want better WV skiing, find it and climb for it. It sounds elitist but it isn't. Whitegrass has something for everyone. You can start easy, learn the ropes, and then grow from there.

# A bad idea with today's demographics and market. It was a great idea in the 1960s and 70s when millions of baby boomers were coming into their adult years and hungry for skiing. In New England Mt. Snow, Killington, Sunday River Attitash, Waterville Valley, Loon, - - - were either founded or grew explosively in that period. Times have changed.

I respectfully disagree Denis...I don't know about the rest of WV but Tucker county depends on tourism and recreation...any attention or investment in the tourism industry in Tucker county whether it is a new resort or putting money into the two existing resorts is a great thing for the local economy and the idea should be praised...I don't think many people realize that the average income for a Tucker County resident is only around 20 K a year...so jobs are needed...the better the tourism industry is the more local business will thrive...the future of the economy here is going to be tourism...the potential is here,,,it just needs to be done with a some foresight...the product is here it just needs some appropriate investment...

Bumper sticker on wall at the Last Dollar;

Call someplace paradise and kiss it goodbye.

Longtime ski industry joke;

How do you make a small fortune with a ski area?

Start with a large one.

...it doesn't have to be that black or white...

Congrats to Delegate John Doyle for at least having a vision... something sorely lacking here in PA.

I would dispute the assertion that there are dozens of hills with 1500 foot vertical suitable for ski resort development in WVa. Even at snowshoe, the 1500 feet is a sliver of the mountain. I have driven that state so many times and studied hundreds of topo maps and there just are not that many places with 1500' vertical, a good mountain face, suitable geology, sizable base area, good water supply, and good exposure. Brierpatch mountain just south of Harmon is one possibility. There are dozens of places to build sub thousand foot vertical areas. But you don't really have to look very far, the next mountain in the ridge is the site of Tory Mtn and if there were enough demand it would have succeeded in the first place. I might agree with Denis, that ship has sailed. But, I'll compromise, tell that dude to hire me for a month and I would be happy to recommend 4 good places for ski areas. I just want to be paid in free lodging and lift tickets for life :-)

There are about 4 areas within 20 min of Canaan Valley which would be the Logical place to build with Corr H coming thru But Its Hopeless to convince DcSki to endorse new Ski areas Tucker or the like...I've fought the good fight for many..many years here on this site starting with the news of MPC & "Almost Heaven"...Folks would rather cut down or bitch about the Skiing in WV & then talk about how great the skiing is elsewhere. There are too many LOSER arguments out there as to why this Potentially Great Ski State should not evolve..Same kinda talk you might of heard around England about the possiblity of colonizing America or Airborne flight Or going to the Moon Ect... This world has always needed Leaders with Guts & Vision to carry the rest of the Dull, Weak & lazy along to better times & conditions...I hope this Dude can get something Started..How bout Starting with a place that has allready had Studies,Planning & land Aquired...Mount Porte Crayon!!!

Don't worry you Back country loving locals & Granola Crunching Nature lovers..There is more Forest,wilderness areas in WV to keep ya lost in for years!...& don't EVEN get me Started with the Samo Lame Water Argument..

One good thing that would come out of such a state commission is that it would shine a spotlight on those few mountains with the right combination of factors that pagamony mentioned, plus reasonable proximity to Corridor H (for access). That might smooth the state approval process, and could bring some modest economic assistance, for any developer willing to roll the dice on one of those spots. It could also make it tougher to develop any of those mountains for other uses, at least for a while.

Population growth is continuing in the Mid-Atlantic at a reasonably high clip, and will for the forseeable future it seems. Skiing's fast growth phase is over, but it should grow with population. With the cost of transportation likely to rise rapidly for years as oil demand outstrips supply, "nearby" vacations will become more popular. Someday, hopefully in my lifetime, Corr H will be finished. The owners of Tline and CV seem uninterested in investing in substantial expansion of their areas. So to me, it is not nuts to think that there might be an opening for a new resort that would thrive in the not-too-distant future.

I thought I'd heard this story before. See the "Good Reading" thread in Dec. of last year on the history of Canaan Valley. Here is a quote from the PDF:

"The early Canaan Valley ski areas also stimulated the West Virginia Department of Commerce to commission a feasibility study of skiing in West Virginia in 1965. Checci and Company pinpointed four locations as the best in West Virginia for commercial ski areas. These areas were: Cabin Mountain in Canaan Valley, Job Knob near Harman, Elk Mountain in Randolph County, and Spruce Mountain in Pocahontas County. The study did not result in the building of any ski areas in these locations."

What is interesting is that (if I have my mountains right) there was ski or development activity at at least three of these areas: Tory on Job, the abandoned area off the Highland Scenic Highway on Spruce, and efforts on Cabin discussed in the article. Nothing on Elk Mountain which looks to have about 1400 of north east facing vertical.

Also interesting that MPC was not mentioned.

At a minimum these guys should look at the 65 study.

While the ambition of this state representative is to be admired, the last thing we need is a governmental body involving itself in the area of a private industry. The limits of what any commission should be allowed to do would be recommend tax cuts on the workers and the resorts and give them major incentive to build/invest.

For the greatest chance of success is for private individuals/investors to spend their time, money, and imitative to research, develop and build. Though in the case with Bill Bright, if land owners don't enter into an agreement to sell, then the resort developers move elsewhere. It's not a perfect world and I would love to have a massive NE style resort further south. But I do draw the line when the government becomes involved in pushing a private industry area only reserved for the private seeking venture capitalist.

In the end I would love to see one massive resort built under the right pretenses and I would be visiting it day in and out. Hopefully by that time I would have enough $$ to buy secondary property next to it!

Whip us back in line Brad!(For Pres?)...Wealthy Landowners & Locals that don't want to see another person from the Cities up there are another obstacle.. Its understandable but there are a whole lot of Job needy & just plain better life needy folks that they are keeping down as a result...I for one out of many have put money into thankful pockets & continue to add to the local economy up there with my Dream of a better Ski area...Waiting for Canaan & Timberline to redesign & upgrade has been like sitting in a dark Room listening to a clock tick.tick..tick...Torture

Just an observation: We went to CV two weeks ago and I had not been there other than a quick drive thru since I was in college in Elkins circa 80-84. The place has not changed that much--not really noticable at all. Compare this to SS and Deep Creek and the diffences are stark. Now put aside the "this is a good thing" argument for a second, and focus on just economic development. Other than the Dollar Store, Davis has not changed a bit. I actually saw some signs of dispair--a closed gas station on 32 in the valley and the closed establishment as you cross the bridge into Davis. This when by all accounts the local DC resorts are thriving and pumping millions back into the resorts even in the down economy. I think Fish and Tucker have the right idea, finish the road and improve on what you have--it is plenty good.

Can it be done? Yes.
Can it make money? Maybe

Components of success (in no particular order)

1. A complete Corridor H all the way through VA. Yeah somewhere some politician will have to do some serious arm bending but w/out that you're going to miss lots of skier visits from NoVa/DC/MD. Those folks will drive a bit further for VT or hop a cheap SW or JetBlue flight.

2. Tax breaks for resort development w/ a special consideration for capital investments in ski lifts and snowmaking equipment servicing runs of 1,500 vertical feet or more. In other words it's fine to build condos but only if you're building good long runs to go with them.

3. Access to lots of water for snowmaking.

4. Permits for ridgetop windmills for electricity. One or two of these can cover the electricy costs for an entire resort. Note during the winter months the resorts will still need to import some electricity but will make this up by exporting surplus electricity in the summer.

5. If the resorts are w/in a certain distance to one another there should be free-shuttles and a super-ticket to cover all resorts.

Bump for PhillipL, seems this bill hasn't moved since it was introduced, January 27.

Has anyone considered developing non-resort skiing in WV? The direction the industry has been taking recently is more in the area of side-country resort expansion. An example of this is the expansion they have started up in Sugarloaf ME. They are not adding any lifts, clear cutting any new trails or adding snow making. They are mostly just consolidating deadfall in the woods to allow skiing on a smaller base. Minimal impact and no water or power issues.

Why not build a nice cozy lodge at the base of Porte Crayon (and/or other suitable sites) and run a snow cat or two. Limit the number of people per day to ~25. For ~$250 a day you get room, board and 2000' of powder runs. Yes, that's not a huge amount of money but the overhead is minimal. The weather won't always cooperate but throwing in some x-country/touring, snowshoeing and cat tours means there will almost always be something to do.

Instead of trying to build something we already have (SS,TL,CV) let's make something different. Thoughts?