The post on used skis got me thinking : Do the skis make the skier or the skier make the skis?

I am of the opinion that it is much more about the skier than the equipment. A good skier should be able to ski on any kind of sticks in any conditions. Better skis will only make the skier marginally better and unless you're a pro or ski daily you really will not notice.

Sure, rocking 1970's gear will effect your ability. Moreover badly tuned skis will slow you down and straight sticks are harder to turn than hour glass, but skier ability and attitude can make up for it all.

To paraphrase the former SECDEF " You ski the hill with the ski's you have, not the ski's you want" .

Bottom line : Stop you whinnying and JUST GO SKI!!

Your thoughts?

Skier... ive seen people ski like mad on stuff i can't even make decent turns on. When i try to ski downhill with XC gear on I realize that I'm really not that great of a skier. Some of the hottest alpine skiers you will see at Timberline can also put on skinny xc skis with soft boots and do anything. and this cat in the viddy has 2 skis on that aren't even the same length..does that matter to him? no, its what they have to ski on, so thats what they ski on. So yeah, the gear makes it easier...but gear doesn't always matter to a really good skier

First of all, you're asking then answering a question.



Totally disagree. The correct length and caliber (beginner, intermediate, expert, etc.) of ski will make a huge difference. Even if you have those two factors correct, you have to consider:

• Conditions you normally ski (icy, crud, light powder, dense powder, packed powder, wind loaded, etc.)
• Terrain you normally ski (groomers, steeps, bumps, tight trees, open trees, off-piste, open bowls, race course, etc.)
• Skiing style (agressive, relaxed, short turns, wide open turns, straight lining chutes, hucking, etc.)

Bode, Mr. Plake, the Chase bros. can prolly ski any ski fairly well in any conditions. But they generally choose not to.

Life's too short and you don't have enough days in your life to be on the wrong ski for what you want to ski. I can ski a lot of different skis in condition X, but I can ski several skis a lot better. If skiing condition X is important to me, then I'll be on the right skis. Especially if I'm on vacation.

I agree with JohnL. For me, with 63 ski days under my belt I am still learning. I had reached the point where my skis that were great when I was a beginner were not working for me any more.

I have tried 6 different skis this year, and found a couple of sets that allowed me to be much more agressive and step up my game. I also found 1 set that wanted to kill me. Some of you would have loved them, but clearly for a more advanced skier than myself. (give me another year though!).

Same for me. I've found that there are certain sets of skis where I can absolutely blast through deep pow, tight trees and rugged bumps. Makes a vacation a lot more fun. If I have confidence in my gear (and more importantly how I ski using that gear), it makes a huge difference in how I ski.

That said, I think there is a benefit in occasionally skiing a ski which forces you out of your element. (I *try* to save those days for West Virginia, not Utah. Doesn't always work out that way.)

Or maybe that's where terrain, conditions and skiing style come into play. My preferences for out west: rapid slalom turns in tight trees or chutes, plently of billy goating, softer skis to match the softer snow and to better absorb bumps. Out west, I prefer a ski that won't rocket me too much if I get back on my tails - this allows me to get more agressive in the tighter lines. I'll sacrifice somewhat the ability to arc on groomers or blast through crud or blast down open bowls at high speed or get a serious rebound from a turn on harder snow. Other skiers may have the exact opposite preferences. Different skis fit those different preferences.

Up to now I have always skied older & longer skis. I can remember that when I purchased an outdated set of the early shaped skis, they actually Taught me to ski better because when I went back to the straightest & longest 1976 year Fischers I had retired to try for fun I could ski them so much better than before.
You can make old skis perform but it takes a lot more effort & you have to be an experienced Good Skier to do so.

Nowadays newbies to the Sport are taking a day to reach a level that 25 years ago would have taken them weeks to acomplish..& now with my new state of the art Atomics I'm skiing in & out of folks lingering around the base area Ect.. for Fun..they can..or I can make them Turn on a dime!

I'll have to agree with oldensign and Chaga. and fishnski

I've never been able to improve my performance much by changing skis, except when I switched from 207cm race legal Telemark skis (straight and narrow) to 163cm Elan SCXs. The short carvers allowed me to carve arcs, but I've replaced them with 170cm K2s. Same shovel width, wider waist (70mm), narrower tail.

Less capable carvers, but I've sort of given up on the euro-carve thing. I could never quite get the hang of that. Fell a lot trying. My new skis appear to be designed for cruising groomers, an activity more befitting someone my age.

I've been around too long to think a different ski will make me a better skier. I know that works for a lot of people, but not for me.

Definitely skier first. Gear helps, but unless it's completely overpowering you the difference will be small. Don't get me wrong, it's still there. My 175cm Volants with a a 66mm waist are a lot easier to through around in the bumps that my very stiff 183cm Head im82s. But I'm only a marginally better bump skier on the Volants.

The one exception I might make would be for deep soft snow comparing a very narrow ski to a very wide one. At some point it's so narrow you won't really float at subsonic speeds and that will make a difference.

Trick question? A skier should be on equipment that's appropriate for their ability and the terrain they generally ski. Putting a novice on a pair of Pocket Rockets won't make them a good tree skier and would probably hurt them on the groomers. Put JohnL on a pair of rental skis and me on his PR's and he'd still have to wait for me at the bottom of the glade. There is always a better tool for the job at hand but one of the definitions of a good skier is he/she can get the full potential out of whatever ski they are on, using the ski at or near the limit and knowing where the limit is.

Plake is often seen on 205+ cm straight skis. I think the general consensus at this point is they are probably not THE best equipment for what he is skiing/doing. Yet he skis them.

With that said, the general opinions here are more or less hitting the high points of the debate. Incorrect equipment can cause problems. Correct equipment can make a good skier better but can't necessarily make a bad skier good.

I don't think it makes a difference on groomed runs. On bumps or powder, I would much rather have more skills than have more gear. I bet Glen Plake could ski on untreated 2x4s.

But, lets talk about the old skis. I tried out some old 195cm k2 comp 710 this year. At first on an easy blue cruiser I thought - these skis are great, I love them !! Then on a steeper icy bump run I thought - these skis suck, I hate them !! Then I remembered last year I skied with a guy on 205 Olins who ripped bumps better than I ever will.

Same thing with golf clubs, imho.

It's the skier.

But, for those of us who have been doing this for years and made only incremental improvements, and those of us whose bodies are wearing down, have arthritis, etc., skis can make a difference.

All I know is I make a big improvement when I changed out skis. To support its the skier theory though, I was able to ski better on almost every demo I tried (I tried 5). Maybe it was in my head along with the voices.

I bought a pair of Head Monsters after skiing on Volkl AC-40s for three years. So after two seasons on the Head Monsters, I took out the AC-40s three weeks ago. Besides feeling like WWII Sherman Tanks on account of the weight, they felt much heavier than the Monsters. I have them now as decorative items.

Not to say that after being treated with derision by the Volkl sales rep at the Snowshoe demo days last year, I swore neither I nor anyone in my family would never buy another pair of Volkls as long as I live. But that's another story.

Head makes a nice smooth ski, and their mid-fats are often lighter and less tanky feeling that equivalent Volkls. But I have one word for you Lou, and I know your interest will be piqued: Kastle. After trying a pair of Kastle MX88s this year, I was sold. Hands down the best 88mm waist ski I have been on, besting Head, Volkls, and Dynastars. I had to sell three other pairs of skis to justify the higher cost of the Kastles, but it was worth it. I highly recommend them.