Is there any news on Laurel Mountains Future? I haven't heard anything for a while.

There is almost no chance for 10-11. 11-12 is probably going to be when the reopening occurs, but I wouldn't bet any loose change on that either. Quite frankly, the 10 year lease 7S acquired might expire before Laurel reopens. All of these delays and slow progress can be directly attributed to the bloated state bureaucracies and the idiotic decision not to go with Buncher a couple of years ago.

I think if 7S would have been willing to throw some big $$$$ into the reformation of the ski area, then maybe things might have progressed faster, but I doubt it. All I do now is hope I'll be able to ski there again before I get to old or meet my Maker.

hockeydave i heard from an ogden aquaintance that you are right about 10-11.

Every indication says to me the 2011/12 season is the target reopening. I just returned from a hike on the mountain and there is nothing evident there that would suggest otherwise. There has been no word that bids were being taken for the work the state will be doing. What is the standard bidding process timeline 30, 60, 90 days?

I posted on this issue some time ago predicting it would take a long time. I would imagine the engineering design will take 9 - 12 months, then there is usually at least a 30 day bid period, then a 30 - 90 day period for award of the construction contract. I would suggest you find out where the engineering is at this point. You generally want to bid the work in late winter so that when the project is awarded to the contractor it is late spring. This allow the construction to proceed through the summer and into the fall.

I have been wondering if it would ever open again since 7 springs got involved. I was hopeful when Hidden Valley wanted to look into opening. I wish they would have offered them a grant of 6 million. We would have probably been skiing this past winter. I wonder if it will sit empty for ten years and be worth nothing. It seems like it was a grant announced by the Governor to look good but made available to a large corporation that would never use it.

RJ, Laurel will open in 2011-12, assuming all things remain the same (the state doesn't pull the plug on the funding). 7S seems to be committed to the ski area since they have a significant stake in Laurel Mountain Village. Given how difficult it is for the Pittsburgh Pirates to spend money (i.e. part company with $$$), I don't think the Nuttings spent over a million buccos (pun intended) just for the heck of it (or to keep Hidden Valley away).

What's going on with sewerage in the village?

laurel mountain village owners

This will give a little information and list the meeting date. The information I was given last fall was that the grant wasn't given yet and when it is, it will be years before any lines are run. I was told that the Village lines in place would be hooked up first. Then they would start to allow lots with lines in front of them to tap in and later run lines to the rest of the Village.

I would like to suggest that we contact the winter sports writer from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette and ask him to investigate the status of Laurel Mountain. Maybe a little publicity will get the politicians putting pressure on 7Springs and PA beauracrats to get their [censored] moving. His e-mail address is:
lwalsh@post-gazette.com

If we all send him an e-mail, it may help get something happening.

This is the e-mail that I sent to Lawrence Walsh:

Lawrence - have you heard any news on the progress of Laurel Mountain. Some of us feel that 7Springs is dragging their feet on this issue and the facilities sitting there idle for another winter is going to continue to contribute to increased costs for renovating the facilities. It is my understanding that the State at one time was near a deal with the Buncher Group to operate LM, but somehow, 7Springs got their foot in the door and snatched the deal away from Buncher.

We're all concerned that the project is going nowhere and pressure needs to be put on State government and 7Springs to get things moving. If you could investigate and do a story on this, it would be appreciated.
Thanks

Let's make it a little easier to send Larry an e-mail Click this link:

lwalsh@post-gazette.com
Broken link, please ignore.

I am sending an email, also.


I saw your email on one of the chat rooms for skiing. I am a large fan of Laurel Mountain Ski Resort. I have been trying to get information about the future of skiing there again. Hidden Valley was working hard to get the lease from the state to reopen the resort. Their time period ran out and Seven Springs offered to buy it the next day. Seven Springs was offered a grant from the Governor of over 6 million to get it reopened and they still haven't done anything. I sometimes wonder if they bought it (the ski resort and village)for a million to keep out competition. The Buncher group could have used this resort to offer tougher skiing in addition to Hidden Valley.
I have tried numerous times to get information from the Government and Seven Springs to no avail. Was it sold to Seven Springs with a 10 year lease to sit and rot and never be open again.
If you could investigate and do a story on this, it would be appreciated.
Thanks

A couple of notes:

1) It may difficult as a journalist for Larry to write an article about Laurel. I won't go into details. It may be best to ping on other local newspapers (Greenburg's Tribune Review, Johnstown's Tribune Democrat or Somerset's Daily American) to do a story.
2) I have requested several times to people at the DCNR in Harrisburg to update the website http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/laurelmountain.aspx with project information and status. Updating the site on a monthly basis would reduce or eliminate conjecture, speculation and rumor. But I'm sure the bureaucrats are much too busy. Why all of this is done in secret is beyond me. However, I'm sure if project information was released to the public for consumption, there may be a lot of pi$$ed off people who have no interest in skiing. As for those of us who do, we would be upset at why it's taking so very long. So damned if you and damned if you don't.

Snowsmith, I got a failed delivery notice using the lwalsh@post-gazette.com address you provided. I copied and pasted the address from your post to create the link I posted. Did your e-mail get through?

I also have pyp@post-gazette.com for his e-address.

edit: I just got a delivery failure notice on that address too.

pyp@post-gazette.com

I checked the website and found the e-mail address above. I did not get a 'failed delivery notice' but I am going to send the e-mail again to the address above.

Another option is Kirk Swauger from the Johnstown Tribune Democrat:

kswauger@tribune-democrat.com

I will send him the same e-mail

Michelle Ganassi of the Somerset Daily American and A.J. Panian of the Pittsburgh Tribune Review are other possible contacts.

AJ covered Laurel Mountain recently. His e-address:

apanian@tribweb.com

Michelle Ganassi covered Laurel in the past, I'm not sure who has recently but here's Michelle's address:

michelleg@dailyamerican.com

I think my link in a post above to Larry Walsh at the Post-Gazette is now working.

On Saturday (May 8th) at the LMV property owners meeting, it was confirmed that Laurel will not open this upcoming year (2010-11). What was even more discouraging was that there is NO guarantee for 2011-12.

I realize Laurel failed several times in the past, and they (the state and 7S) claim they want to do it right this time (which means with the state involved there is even less likelihood for survival), but this is not rocket science folks. It is a freakin' hill that people want to ski. Survey the land, determine what resources are lacking, widen certain trails, put snowmaking where necessary, fix or replace the existing lifts and get to work. Will someone from the DCNR please explain why a ski area this size is going to take over 3 years to re-engineer to "do it right"? How the heck did we make it it the moon in 10 years and can't get Laurel reopened within the same time span.

Dave, it certainly does make one want to scratch one's head in wonderment at the amazing speed the State works. Snowsmith was absolutely right about the time line. I've been waiting on official news from the DCNR. I made an inquiry to Harrisburg and Lori Nygard, DCNR Chief Program Services in the Park Operations & Maintenance Division, sent this back to me dated May 6 2010:


Thank you for your interest in the operation at Laurel Mountain. We are currently in the design process. After the Department of General Services approves the design, we will put the project out for bids. The commonwealth improvements will include additional water storage for snowmaking, improvements to the snow making infrastructure, a new or refurbished lift, slope grading work, electrical upgrades as necessary, and possibly a new tubing park (dependent on funds available). Construction may begin in the fall of this year, which would impact the upcoming ski season. With an improved lift in place, the ski area may be able to open for the 2011 season.

If you have any additional questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Lori Nygard, Chief
Program Services Section
Park Operations & Maintenance Division
DCNR - State Parks
717-783-3307

It looks like the DCNR is now considering installing a used, refurbished lift to replace the double. The scope of the physical project can certainly be accomplished within 1 construction season. We are talking about a lift that rises 700 to 900 vertical over, what??, 3,000 to 3,400 linear feet feeding 70 acres in existing trails. I hope the improvements listed reflects their true priority. Water storage and snow making infrastructure should be #1. Too bad Laurel didn't open this last season, we wouldn't have needed it.

December 2011. Mark it on your calender. I'll meet yunz in the Laurel Lodge or down Midway. First round is on me.

I work on projects that are politically influenced all the time. A politician makes a committment to a town or community and we as the engineers for the project have to live with the rediculous schedule that the politician has committed to. We make it happen. Apparently, there is no politician who has taken this project under his wing and is pushing it. Thus if no one puts any pressure on the DNCR then it may be until 2012 to get this rolling.
Buncher was able to install 84 Techno Alpine snow guns, several miles of snow making piping and a new quad lift over a very short period of time. Thus it can be done. The LM project is going through the normal design phases and schedules as every mundane project that is on the PA government's agenda. It needs presure from somewhere, from someone or it could be 2 seasons before we see skiing at LM. I would say that would lay in the hands of the local politicians. And if no one is putting any presure on them...well, the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

I will take you up on that.. still my lock on the door

imp

It goes to show... government outside of it's Constitutional mandated limitations for function can't do anything near as good as the private sector! I don't know why that land isn't sold off by the state so a private group can buy and do LM justice.

Snowsmith is right it's the squeaky wheel that's missing here but if yunz want something to get moving on this writing the government isn't the answer. Who you gonna call if you want Major League Baseball to return to Pittsburgh? Same people who are holding up Laurel Mountain. They decided at least two months ago that this wasn't happening for 2010-11 but guess what, they don't have to worry about Buncher having another product to compete with mission accomplished.

It is obvious that 7Springs is not pushing this (so much for the private sector theory). I'll give you an example. If you have been to Baltimore's Inner Harbor there an attraction called the PowerPlant. When the company that runs it now (forgot their name) took on this huge project, they concluded a bridge would be required to connect the PowerPlant pier to the adjacent pier with the National Acquarium. The City owns the piers and the developer wanted the City to build the bridge since they were going to investing a couple hundred million into redeveloping the PowerPlant and adjacent land. So they told the City, build us a bridge and build it now. This was in January and they want this bridge over the harbor open by June. They asked my company to lead this project (because they knew we could get it done). Thus we only had 6 months to design, bid and build the bridge. To get this done we immediately went to work. We ordered the steel girders for the brigde as soon as we had them designed and worked 24 hrs/day at one point to get this complicated design, over the harbor, completed. The developer brought on a contractor, no bid, with the City's concurrence and we fed them the design as they were building it. The bridge opened in June as scheduled.
Now, if no one would have pushed that schedule, the project would have went through the normal process of procurement of engineering, design (multiple phases), bidding, procurement and then construction. It may have take at least 2 years. The process is there to prevent the old 'waste, fraud and abuse' that we always here about. In this case to protect us from the 'greedy private sector' due to many years of crooked contractor's (and engineer's).
But my point is, if 7Springs really wanted this ski area open (and not just to protect themselves from competition from Buncher)they would have pushed it. And they are not doing that. They do not care when it opens becuase it's not going to be a big money maker for them until they can develop the adjacent lots in LM Village. They are not stupid.

DING DING DING

I meant that by keeping Buncher out they've eliminated the competition already no need to open til they're good and ready, busting on the state won't help unless its 7springs doing the busting.

Some other notes from the LMV meeting:

1) An LMV resident asked one of the 7S reps if they (7S) were willing to sell some of the lots that they acquired in the Village. The 7S rep noted that they have been asked this same question by several folks and 7S has decided not to sale of any of the lots (yet... my word). So as long as they hold onto the lots, I guess there is some hope that 7S thinks Laurel may get open again.
2) 7S is meeting with the DCNR almost on a weekly basis so it seems they are, at least on the surface, actively involved in the planning & engineering.
3) 7S rep stated that the planning for the development of the lots they own will not happen until the ski area is opened. So, if true, they should have as much incentive as possible to get the state/DCNR moving.

Based on the current pace of progress (glacial doesn't even begin to describe it), I'm fairly sure Buncher is relieved not to be part of this agonizingly slow process.

The incentive to develop those lots will only take place if the current 7s developments reach full occupancy. Is that happening? I think they are just as happy to sit on the lots as they are the ski area.

How much time did the DCNR give to 7 Springs to open? I really don't think they have any interest. As soon as they could buy and get Buncher out, they moved quickly. Now the competition is gone so they put it on the back burner. They probably figure that the people that like the terrain at Laurel are now going to 7 Springs. They are getting the income without the expenses of another resort. With Nutting owning the newspaper and the Pirates, it is hard for people who love Laurel to be heard.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/westmoreland/s_681394.html

It is truly amazing that they harm the environment like this, but throw up roadblocks when it comes to opening up Laurel because of their beloved fish hatchery several hundred feet in elevation below the ski area.

Hey, those Mellon's are hurting for cash. We should give them some more tax cuts.
Why would they cut down trees and let them lay there and rot? I realize we need wood and thus logging is necessary, but this type of logging seems irresponsible to me.

got info this week 9/19/10 that the state and 7 springs are working on were to put the new or used triple lift (bottom of wild cat)' and moving the loading ramp for the quad lift up to make room for a lake at the bottom of timber top. this info came from a good source. thing are moving slowly. but thay are moving keep the fath rockclimber

I hope this info is current. The replacement of the double has been analyzed since early on. It's a little disheartening to see the replacement chair consideration is downgraded from a 'state of the art quad' to a possible used triple. It's just an indication that as time rolls on less is possible.

We all know that the money is released and in the DCNR's budget but what we don't know is if it is permanently in their hands and exclusively committed to Laurel?

skibum, you hit the nail on the head, it is time for the state to get moving. Announcing bids and construction start date is the news we want to hear.

I have been hearing that there has been no work on the area and the lodge is in bad shape. I wrote to DCNR to see if there was anything written in the lease that if 7Springs didn't start in a period of time to rebuild, that the lease could be offered to other investors and revoked from 7Springs. They wrote:

Thank you for your interest in PA State Parks and in the re-opening of Laurel Mountain. There is no clause in the lease that allows another entity to operate the ski concession should Seven Springs not open. Most of the assets on the mountain are owned by Seven Springs, and therefore they would be the only concessionaire that we would work with to lease the land.



If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Thank you.



Lori Nygard, Chief

Park Operations & Maintenance Division

717-783-3307


The grant may be gone soon and if 7Springs doesn't do anything, I think we may have another lost ski area.

Admittedly I know almost nothing about this situation or the background, but as a matter of basic business and public contracting, the State's response to your inquiry seems odd. They seriously signed a land lease that had no termination provision if the lessee fais to perform? The lessee isn't obligated to remove their assets from the state land if they don't utilize them to offer a public recreational opportunity, which was the purpose (presumably) of the lease? I would be interested to know how these terms compare to the leases that area operators sign with the USFS to operate on National Forest land out West (or in the NE).

has any work been done at LM in the last 2 weeks??. the info i have is the state has released money to the springs to start work on the site for the new chair??. rock climber