Seevn Springs last operated Laurel Mountain in 2004-05, and they did it very well. Seven springs, Dupre's have since sold to the Nutting Family (the same people that own the Pittsburgh Pirate, that have lost 299 games in the last three years, just horrible management.) When the Dupre family had Laurel Mountain,
* They offered dual passes w/ 7spring passes
* Immediately put three $150,000 packers up there and had it staffed with their expert perssonnel and food service people
* Opened the wildCat lounge and the Family Style Cafeteria, both with good food and service and entertainment in the lounge.
* arranged for potable water since there is some sort of water problem
* expertly groomed and figured out how to expertly groom the double diamond, famous lower WildCat.
* It was a very popular Skiers mountain and the Herman Dupre/Seven Springs operated this the best I had ever seen and that goes back to numerous operators to the '70s.

The PA DCNR had already.
* Built a $1,000,000 lodge. (estimate)
* Put in a $500,000 quad lift.
* Put in ponds at the top of the mountain for snowmaking

Part of the mountain was privately owned apparently and held debt that was offered to sale to Seven Springs (Nutting Group) and Hidden Valley (Buncher Group) with Seven Springs winning and then choosing to sit on it and not open it via all kind of excuses including the fact that the WildCat chairlift is old. That did not stop Herman Dupre/ Seven Springs, nor did any other issues.

Since the Commonwealth of PA and the taxpayers put so much into the assets and since it was tied to improving the economy every season it was open; pressure to re-open is not just in the hands of the Nutting Group./ Seven Springs people. It is also a public issue with Public People able to help re-open by next year if not sooner.

Here are some people and offices to contact (very Nicely)
* DCNR Seretary, John Quigley
* jquigley@state.pa.us
* Exec. Office, 717.787.2869
* DCNR, 7th floor, Rachel Carson (a famous Pennsylvanian) Office Bldg., P O Box 8767. Harrisburg, PA 17105
* Another avenue might be; Bureau of Administrative Services, 717.787.2362

The taxpayers and the Commonwealth of PA have put a ton of money into The Laurel Mountain Ski Area. This gem has a long history going back to when Stowe and Laurel Mountain were the eary training sites for the US Ski Team and areas were few and far. It is/was a very popular and economically important to the Laurel Highlands when it operated. I think that some interest by readers will help the Commonwealth of PA apply some pressure to Nutting Group/ Seven Springs either act or give up their interest. Post cards, emails, letters, phone calls

Oh yeah, I forgot that is was rumored that when the WISP RESORT in McHenry, MD started negotiating for Laurel Mountain Ski, that is when 7Springs, Nutting Group bought up the debt of the private part of Laurel Mt. Ski to Keep the highly endowed WISP out of the Laurel Highlands.

Hi star and welcome to DCSki and welcome to the fight. The regular readers here are well appraised of the issues with Laurel Mountain. If you have not already done so you can read a lengthy history dating back to March, 2007 of Laurel's fight in this thread:
Laurel Mountain Breaking News

and this more recent thread:
Laurel Mountain

and for some brief history of Laurel there is my thread;
Midway Cabin-Help Preserve History

I've kept most of my comments to the Laurel Mountain Breaking News thread. Even though much of it is dated and the length can put a lot of people off I think that most interested parties are subscribed to the thread and get notified when a new post is made. Also the current view count of 565,361 should leave no doubt as to the level of interest in seeing this mountain opened again.

I am in no way suggesting you keep comments solely in that thread and I'm happy to see another person take up the cause. In fact you are spot on about the need to let the DCNR and Seven Springs know that there is still a considerable enthusiastic base hungry to ski this historic mountain and see its potential finally realized. Truly there is no better already existing terrain in this part of PA.

One way I thought we could show our support is by forming a conservation volunteer group that can work with the DCNR and Seven Springs to do routine trail maintenance and other work deemed appropriate on the State Park grounds. I think it would be much more effective to have a group of people willing to volunteer their labor to make the area a viable business rather than be solely an advocate. I've expressed this before and some interest has been voiced but I have not taken the time to lay the foundation to make it so. I have inquired to the park manager as to what procedure I should follow to establish such a group. I will ask again if there is a core that can help establish conservation volunteer group.

Also, last week I made inquiry to Lori Nygard, Chief of Program Services Section of the Park Operations & Maintenance Division as to the current status of the project. I haven't heard back from her yet.

I asked Lori if there was any way for another entity to redevelop the area. I asked if the lease had anything in it where if Nutting didn't do anything to reopen, the lease could be granted to another company. This is how she answered:


Thank you for your interest in PA State Parks and in the re-opening of Laurel Mountain. There is no clause in the lease that allows another entity to operate the ski concession should Seven Springs not open. Most of the assets on the mountain are owned by Seven Springs, and therefore they would be the only concessionaire that we would work with to lease the land.



If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Thank you.



Lori Nygard, Chief

Park Operations & Maintenance Division

717-783-3307


The way I see it is 7 springs has a 10 year lease on it weather they open or let it fall in.

To add one more thought. The die was cast on the future of Laurel when the state/DCNR decided Buncher was not worthy of operating Laurel and Buncher walked, leaving the door open for Mr. Nutting to purchase the assets. Buncher had the financial resources and the will to operate and renovate Laurel because Laurel was the perfect complement to Hidden Valley; similar in that it was family oriented ski area but dissimilar in that it had terrain that could challenge the most expert skier, unlike the terrain at Hidden Valley. A perfect pairing would have been hatched.

But within weeks of the deal falling apart between the DCNR, Buncher and Somerset Trust, in steps Mr. Nutting, who purchased the ski area and Village assets and who has shown almost zero interest in making any improvements to the ski area, especially with his own dime. Again, the ski lodge is his, albeit sitting on state land. I know of no reason why a preventive stain and seal couldn't have happened in the past 2 years to the lodge since Mr Nutting acquired it. Something as little as that would have given us diehards some hope that there was a commitment to get Laurel reopened by Mr. Nutting. If anybody knows of anything Mr. Nutting has done at the ski area, beside use the lodge as a storage facility, please post so he can receive credit. I know of nothing. Oh by the way, refer to this article on what Buncher did for the village of Bakersville, PA after purchasing Hidden Valley

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/westmoreland/s_568912.html

Contrast this slap in the face to Seven Springs homeowners and the police department.

http://www.wjactv.com/news/24343821/detail.html

So over 2 years have gone by since the Laurel purchase; nothing has happened, time has been wasted, money has been squandered on feasibility studies, and quite possibly, the state may back out of their financial commitment to Laurel due to budgetary concerns. Does Mr. Nutting have a contingency plan if the state does pull the plug on the funding? I say yes he does have one, and I bet it is the same plan that he has been following for the past 2 years... do nothing, spend nothing, and hope there is an excuse not to reopen Laurel.

If anyone has any evidence that anything I have said (which wasn't an opinion) over the past 2 years is not factual, please inform. I hope something that I've stated is found to be in error.

To be fair, Mr Nutting. owns 2 businesses that do make money, Seven springs and the Pittsburgh Pirates. Seven Springs makes money thanks in large part to the inertia created by the former owners, the Dupre family, who sunk profits back into the resort to make it one of the top ski resorts in the East. And I shouldn't forget the Pittsburgh Pirates, who haven't had a winning season since 1992, and who lost a franchise record and major league worst 105 games this year. They make money due to thousands of non-baseball fans who attend the games for everything but baseball and because its something to do while the Steelers and Penguins aren't in season. Also, money is handed to Mr. Nutting from other MLB owners because Pittsburgh is a small market. Funny though, the 'Burgh isn't considered small market by the NFL or NHL. Only by MLB. Maybe MLB mistook "small market" for "small minded".

the plan is to stall for as long as they can (7 springs)10 years the lease will be up? keep all others out walk away leave gutted MT.that cant be rebuilt. i hope im worng

skibum: reliable source or rumor?

My post was pure conjecture based on on-site visual inspections and lack of any updates from either the DCNR or 7S over the past 2 years, with the exception of the lease signing. But I have no idea what either party is up to or what their plans are.

It doesn't seem like the DCNR has any desire to see it reopened. They seem to only want to talk to nutt heads who they know won't do anything. I think the 6 million will disappear before long. I still wish they would have thought about coop owners. The Buncher Group could have had it running. The only ones that don't seem to want it open is the Company who they gave a 10 year lease. I wish they would just say why they don't want it open. Could it be Mellons. Could it be the newspaper man who owns 7 Springs. Could it be the local politicians or Governor who don't want the grant used. Who knows? Ski Hidden Valley and Wisp.

I took your suggestion and e-mailed Mr. Quigley. Here is a copy of the thread:

My e-mail:
Dear Mr. Quigley - many of us are concerned that the neither Seven Springs or the DCNR seem to have any sense of urgency on getting this facility operating again. Seven Springs has essentially done minimal maintenance on the current facilities and the facilities are falling into disrepair. At the same time the DCNR project to build improvements at the facility seems to have fallen substantially behind schedule. And now with the an election coming, depending which governor wins the election, the funding for these improvements could be in jeopardy. I also understand there is no 'out' in the lease with Seven Springs or incentive for them to move forward to open the facility, thus they seem to be just sitting on the place. I wonder if their intent was to eliminate the competition by eliminating other operators from taking over the resort. Laurel Mountain could be an important economic stimulus for the area and generate employment. I would hope that the DCNR would place this project high on its agenda.

Thank you,

His Response:
Here is what I have learned:

We have a completed preliminary design. We are currently on hold waiting for results of the geotechnical investigation which will provide info on the location of the towers for the new lift. Getting to preliminary required a topographic survey, hydrologic and archeological investigation and a PNDI search. Also, the scope of work exceeded the budget allocation which required multiple meetings with Seven Springs to hash out what facilities we could provide with the funding available.

From the issuance of the Notice to Proceed for design, it was apparent, even under the best of circumstances, construction would not begin until Spring, 2011. We are still on that schedule.


John Quigley

My response:
John - thank you for taking the time to respond. I am in the engineering and construction business and thus understand the importance of schedules. My recommendation would be to indicate to the design team that there will be no schedule extensions and that the project must be advertised for bidding on schedule. Based on 35 years of experience, I know the team will find a way of getting it done. I hope that project will create jobs for the 2011/2012 ski season.

Good luck and thanks again for your response,

His response:
We'll stay on it. Thanks.

John Quigley

I have mentioned before the 'design and construction process'. He indicated that the project has a completed 'preliminary design' which generally means the design documents are 30% complete. You should soon see drilling rigs where where the lift towers will be to take soil and rock samples so that the foundations for the lifts can be designed. He indicates that construction will start in Spring 2011. This means that they have approximately 8 months to do the construction for $6.0 million in improvements. Sounds aggressive but not impossible. There is an outside chance we'll be skiing in 2011/2012. I'll check back with Mr. Quigley from time to time to see if progress is being made.

Thanks Snowsmith, that is the first really substantial comment we've heard from the DCNR.

It appears that the project is still moving forward but at a deliberately slow pace. How long must it take to erect a lift? Remember that George Mowl, previous lease holder, not only installed the quad but built a lodge, installed new snowmaking infrastructure, built a tubing park, maintenance building, lighting and built a snowmaking pond in about 5 months. Construction began in July and the quad was operational before Christmas and the double came on line in January but snow was made on all snowmaking trails by opening in late December including Lower Wildcat. There were a lot of mistakes but my point is that if there is the will to get it done, an eight month construction schedule should be manageable especially with a two year design phase.

I'm all for doing it right and minimizing mistakes but until we see lifts going up, electrical upgrades made as well as trail grading and snowmaking improvements there will continue to be skepticism.

I would like to hear from Seven Springs. What do they bring to the table? What will be their financial contribution besides the rent on the facility? A public statement from Seven Springs would go a long way toward establishing good will.

This thread is unintelligible except perhaps to insiders with their own knowledge and language and a lot of patience for reading this long diatribe. For example, just who the hell is DCNR?

The DCNR is the Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. They are the Pennsylvania State agency that contains the State Park Bureau. Laurel Mountain is a state park. We are using DCNR and PA State Park Bureau as one in the same. They are responsible for the $6.5 million in capital improvement funding that was approved by the state legislature and released by the governor.

In response to a PM I do think Laurel Mountain is worth saving as a ski area. I skied there in the late 60s as a grad student at CMU. Also skied Seven Springs and Hidden Valley. LM was my favorite by far. They had an honest expert trail in Lower Wildcat and a nice layout in general.

Denis, if you perceive this thread and other threads about LM as one long diatribe, you're absolutely correct. There is a tremendous amount of frustration about the lack of transparency and openness by all parties involved (7S, DCNR) with the future development of a state park primarily, if not exclusively, funded by the state (i.e. tax dollars). This leads to the rants and the spewing of venom. All we're asking is to keep us informed. One is lead to believe the ski area is now open if you look at the DCNR website:

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/laurelmountain.aspx

Why not have a monthly or every other month update on the website as to the progress (or lack of) being made?

As for the funding I do hope that since Secretary Quigley said, "...the scope of work exceeded the budget allocation which required multiple meetings with Seven Springs to hash out what facilities we could provide with the funding available" that Seven Springs is putting up more of their own money besides the purchase of assets. This would go a long way toward stemming any political moves against Laurel. With a substantial commitment of private money this project would really be a private/public partnership, one that both political parties could agree on. It is the very model often touted as the a viable way to fund public parks in an era of budget constraints.

ok... a stupid question that has probably been answered long ago in the other thread, but I cannot remember it.

Aside from whatever issues that might have arised from being dormant for several years, why is the reopening of LM contingent upon the installation of a new lift? Is there an essental need, or is it possibly a case of the best being the enemy of the good?

GG, a new lift is necessary. It will replace the original double (a mix of 60's era Poma, with Leitner, Borvig components) which is the only lift that can service the entire mountain. The cost to revamp the chair and bring it up to code would be great, parts would still be hard to find and you still would have limited uphill capacity for current and future needs. The double chair is owned by the state and the replacement will also be owned by the state, I assume.

The quad installed in 1999 only directly services beginner and intermediate terrain (Innsbruck and Broadway) on the skiers left side of the mountain. With a long flat traverse the current quad could service the upper mountain runs. You could do it but most skiers would have to pole and skate to get over to Broadway.

After working for Springs last winter, IMO they do intend to open it back up. Now I didn't hear that from Mr. Nutting but there where a few pieces of equipment and what not that I asked what we where doing with it and was told it was going to Laurel.

On another note, anyone have any legal idea if its OK to hike and ride there this winter. It is a State Park. I hiked about half way down last fall and it still looks completey rideable with 30 inches.

Officially, it is closed. Since Seven Springs is now the lease holder they would be legally liable. The State Park manager would be obliged to ask you to leave if you are caught. Seven Springs could charge you with trespassing. That is how I understand the legal situation.

Can someone post directions. I looked for it a few years ago, trusting 30 yr. old memory to get me there and couldn't find it. Closed and non operating ski areas are great places to earn your turns.

It's really easy...take rte 30 east out of Ligonier through Laughlintown. At the top of the mountain, turn right (this should be marked for things like Forbes State Forest, etc)onto Laurel Summit Road.

Where the paved road ends (turns to gravel) the gate for LM is to your right.

Which exit would I take from the turnpike? I'm in N VA so I'd be coming westbound.

I guess this question distills down to: How is US30 between Bedford and Ligonier? It looks like a more direct shot than the turnpike. I hate the turnpike and take 30 and 220 to get to Blue Knob.

Yeah, sorry, should have asked where you are coming from! 30, IMO, is definitely a reasonable alternative to the Turnpike. They have actually done a lot of repaving between Bedford and Ligonier. The only thing to keep in mind is that most of it is 2 lane and you can get behind trucks etc. So for people who "need" to drive 75 mph+, the Turnpike is better.

If you are coming through Breezewood on I70, you could just take 30 the whole way from there and avoid the TP altogether.

If you are West bound on 30, it will be a left hand turn back to LM. A good landmark is that you will go through a red light with a Burger King on your left and then pretty much ascend up the mountain on 30, when you get to the summit, the turn back to LM is on your left (and should be reasonably well marked).

I saw this on DCSKI Laurel Mountain:


Listed below are a couple of email addresses to send questions on Laurel Mt. Please pass on...Squeaky Wheel.....

seasonpass@7springs.com; kvalenti@7springs.com; rshaffer@7springs.com; bmiller@7springs.com; terrainpark@7springs.com ; Humanresources@7springs.com; Info@7springs.com; linnrunsp@state.pa.us; rvirag@laurelhighlands.org; jdonovan@laurelhighlands.org; cdorko@laurelhighlands.org; kecker@laurelhighlands.org ; jpearson@laurelhighlands.org; lmauzy@laurelhighlands.org; aweis@laurelhighlands.org; ra-askdcnr@state.pa.us; Mreese@pahousegop.com; dwhite@pasen.gov; willloyd@state.pa.us; Bnutting@7springs.com

Hey! check this out about Laurel Mountain http://www.firsttracksonline.com/News/20...en-for-2011-12/