Yesterday I was having a great day with my son who is 7. He is a very good snowboarder with no problems on blues. We were taking one off the tight green trails from widow maker over to ball hooter when we came to a group of about 10 people in an intersection.

My son and I slowed and worked are way though just then an 18 or so year opd boarder came flying through from up hill and hit my son then landed on top of him. I went smiling dad to a crazed lunatic in a 1/10th of a second. I knew the boarder was not a beginner just a want to be hotshot.

I yelled at and threatened the guy,who got scared and kept apologizing. Luckly i am 6'2"".190 so i look real big in my snowgear :-) He even said if someone did that to his kid he would react the same way.. I left it with dude you need to know the code and you could have killed my son.

I do all I can to keep my family safe and teach them about right of way. I shadow my son 10 yards behind and always look up hill for threats. Is there anything else I can do I am thinking a orange or yellow jacket?

Ban the Boarders? Wasn't it also a Boarder that killed that little girl last week? It always seems to involve a Boarder doesn't it? Funny I've never noticed a pack of skiers squatting down in the middle of a trail or intersection.

One BIG help would be LARGE contingent of Safety Patrol, Courtesy Patrol, Ski Patrol...actually Patrolling the slopes. LOL...don't look for that at Snowshoe...but that's another story. Here it's ski-at-your-own-risk.

I have thought about this a lot since I have been in the same situation...

First I think what you did is appropriate. If you are really serious, get a good description and report him to a ski patrol, but good luck finding one.

Second, if someone is out of control, it won't matter what you do or what color are your jackets. I really think this is the responsibility of the resort, the parents of these out of control kids, or the out of control adults themselves. The resorts do everything they can to make it look like a crazy fun place that they ignore basic ski patrolling and education, imho. I was at snowshoe last week and saw a skiing Santa more than any ski patrol actually on the slopes. And if parents don't know the code or don't know what their kids are doing, they aren't any help either!

Third, I have gone ballistic twice. The most serious time was at silver creek a year ago when my 8 year old girl was run over so hard even her gloves came flying off. It ruined her whole season. I was skiing behind her and when we came to the end, I pulled up beside her and then it happened. I probably looked like I was killing the 15 yr old kid, but not really. We were both questioned by the liftie at the bottom but I never saw ski patrol. Since she said she was dizzy and nauseous, we went to ski patrol shack for a health check but they were not seriously interested in my description of the incident.

It would be tempting to say that some resorts are better than others, but I have seen it happen east and west, north and south. I think you have to go to an extremely low density place like CVR to genuinely improve your chances. Low frequency, high impact events are just hard to predict.

I'd be interested in what other Dad's have to say.

I wouldn't go accusing snowboarders of this crime. I've seen plenty (probably just as many) skiers do the SAME thing. I think a big part of it boils down to skier/boarders not being taught or just being ignorant to the slope safety rules that exist to help keep everyone safe.

JohnP, first let me say that I would have acted the same as you did in this situation. If it were my kid that was run over, the person (skier OR boarder, 18 year old OR 85 year old) would have probably got more than just an earful from me. BUT, as out of control and un-mindful to the safety of others this boy was, from the way the story sounds it was still probably an accident (although VERY preventable). More and more when I see stuff like this happen, the person at fault often times gets up and acts like nothing happened, not evening offering an apology before they speed off. I am glad to hear that he was very apologetic about the situation.

As for your son, I'm assuming from your story that he is doing ok. I hope that he isn't hurt and this didn't scare him or prevent him from wanting to continue to enjoy snow sports. As for the boarder, I'm also sure that he learned a thing or 2 that day...

Sounds like you have been doing the right things. Staying behind and providing an uphill indication that something is in path is a good thing to do. It is the same thing I did with my son until he outgrew me. I also would have jumped down the guy's throat, but I can't help but think the 10 or so people standing at the trail intersection were just a big of a problem as the boarder in this case. I seem to remember in days gone by that a patroller would be stationed at these areas to keep people from bunching up on crowded days. As far as boarders vs. skiers, when I first started skiing on boy scout or school trips all the kids would be bombing down the hill on skis out of control. I don't think this generation of boarders has a monopoly on stupidity. Maybe it is just revisionist history on my part, but I do think there is a huge difference in ratio of ski patrollers from then to now. I also think that ski instructors were more a part of the overall safety plan then they are now. There are only a few resorts were I think the instructors feel like they have the authority and even more importantly the responsibility to get involved when they see folks skiing recklessly. I am also curious if any of the "old timers" can tell me if requirements for ski patrollers have gotten harder over the years and is a factor in number of patrollers. Again, it seems to me not everyone was certified EMTs with a few more folks akin to sidewalk crossing guards on crowed days. Probably another function of our litigious society.

JohnP - I'm sorry to hear this happened to you and your son. Incidents like yours and the one in Wyoming are the number one reason why Liberty Mountain has taken a proactive and aggressive position on skiing and riding safely (I believe this is true for other Snowtime resorts as well).

The Ski Patrol and Mountain Safety at Liberty work together and monitor the more congested areas. This includes the base of the backside in order to ensure that out of control guests shooting past Ski Patrol/Mountain Safety at mid-trail are intercepted at the base. You can't out ski/ride a radio call! This also reminds all guests of the importance of maintaining control. Skiers and boarders that are not in control are warned and, if necessary, tickets are pulled.

This is not done to ruin anyone's "fun" but to ensure that all guests enjoy themselves in a safe manner. If you do not see Ski Patrol or Mountain Safety on the trails - especially during busy times - do not hesitate to ask. Hopefully, you won't feel that need!

I hope your son was not hurt and continues to enjoy our great sport.

Sorry to say it, but the family and I go out about 25-30 times a year. The wife always seems to get taken out once a year--always by a boarder never a skier. No agenda here, just stating a fact. I have a 10 year old and protect her as much as possible but there is no perfect solution. I applaud the resorts for efforts to enforce the Code, but my only beef with Snowtime, is that they seem to designate slow skiing trails but then enforce resort wide. For example, ski patrol slowed my daughter and I down at the bottom of Eastwind at Liberty while boarders were bombing down Whitneys Way. Please help me with this logic??

My son is ok just a little shaken, today he was doing upper shays to cup with no falls and lapping the butter boxes at silvercreek. I have snowboarded for 20 years now, I grew up skateboarding so it was natural for me and not the thing everyone did.

I think it boils down to teenagers taking to snowboarding because they think it's cool. Teenagers are reckless by nature for better or worse they take up snowboarding when they go to the slopes. If your keeping score my friend had his 7 year old run over today by a snowboarder at SS

We do ride liberty almost every week if you see a tall guy in a black helmet and a really small kid in silver helmet say hi

By daughter, who rides a snowboard, was run down by an out of control skier last year. So it goes both ways.

Regrettably, I think most resorts have backed off on enforcement of speed/recklessness/out of control skiing & boarding due to financial considerations. Pulling the ticket of a reckless teen, for example, often means that a family has their weekend significantly altered (or at least has to buy a replacement for their three day pass) and leaves with hard feelings. Today's narcissistic parents are more likely to blame the resort than consider the possibility that not-so-little Johnny may in fact have been endangering himself and others in classic teenager fashion.

I remember myself as a teenager. Fear of having to explain to my father how I lost my ticket was almost the sole motivation for skiing marginally responsibly, since like most kids I considered myself totally invincible.

You definately had the right to react however you felt was appropriate. Last year a friend of mine had his collar bone broken when he had to dive in front of a out of control skier in camo overalls to keep him from hitting his girlfriends 6 year old daughter at the bottom of the lift Mounatineer Lift. Wether it is a skier or boarder it is a shame when this stuff happens. My only advice would be to have your child wear a helmet, and try to avoid riding when the resorts are overly crowded. The spot where this happened is notorious for collision accidents.

Snow.buck, I agree, but in the case of Snowshoe, where this event happened, the previous CEO, who thankfully was enticed to resign two months ago, did his absolute best to piss off the same volunteers who would otherwise be able to maintain a modicum of civility in the resort. I have never seen more managerial irresponsibility in any business such as I saw in Snowshoe for the 7 long, unfortunate years that the now-gone CEO had tenure. In one year, the Courtesy Patrol was cut in half. Today, finding a yellow vest in the resort is harder than gold nuggets in California rivers.

So many other ski resorts entice volunteers to be a part of the community and do their part to maintain decorum, civility and order. Unfortunately, not at Snowshoe. Hope the new management learns that unless you bring the community into play as stake holders, you're engaging in a practice described by the vernacular as kind of outdoor urination with a brisk wind on your face.

No one could have been more succinct in a post! Employees have told me this week they had a lot to say, but if it ever got back to Mgmt = canned! GM gone, F&B Mgr gone...SS run by committee now, and Vancouver playing hands off. With having to pre-pay in April for Owners passes, giving away Season passes with 5-night stay (to pick up lodging later), giving away free lessons for the length-of-stay, lift tickets higher then out West...can a bankruptcy be far?

The shoddy slapped together infrastructure is now crumbling. In just Xmas week:
- One building evacuated due to people passing out from a carbon monoxide leak.
- Another building evacuated due to a water main break.
- Fire at the Summit condos from mixing Renters & Fireplaces (you can't light a log with 151?)...and flue closed.
- Shop can't tune skis - machine broke with no anticipated repair.
- Starbucks (half SS owned) ran out of supplies...and SS was empty til 2 days before New Years. When you ski up to Ballhooter and just sit down = I'd call it empty.

"What to do when your child is run over?" Be proactive...ask about Courtesy, Safety, Ski Patrol staffing, emergency injury infrastructure, actual Dr. on premises, nearest hospital, etc.

I think this is the fear of every parent while they are out skiing or boarding with their kids. A few weekends ago a young kid came out of control and clipped the tails of my daughters' skis on Sidewinder at Liberty. He fell pretty hard. When he came to a complete stop I was above him.

I helped him up and had a nice conversation with him. I advised him of the code and the fact he probably should stick to the runs on the front side. He agreed.

As a dad I wanted to clip his ticket, but as an advocate of the sport I know I did similar mistakes when I was learning. It's a tough line to draw especially had my daughter been hurt.

Best advice is what's already been said here. Shadow your child by staying up hill from them as a barrier or just notification that someone is below. Look for potential problem skiers or boarders and don't be afraid to stop your child to let traffic pass.

Glad your son is okay. I hate seeing people get hurt while enjoying their time outside on the slopes.

J. Galvin
skiwedge.com

The amazing part is that Snowshoe is one of the few Intrawest properties that makes money. With good management, it could be a literal gold mine.

Two years ago, they placed so many limitations on volunteers that over half of them quit. They took away comp tickets, volunteers couldn't operate any equipment, and a million other ill-conceived restrictions.

I figured that with the departure of the former CEO for a downgrade Operations position somewhere else, they would have instituted significant changes as soon as he left. Mmmm.....

I have worked in the ski industry in several on the snow positions at several different resorts in the Mid-A for 15 years(full time for 8 of those years). I have been struck by skiers and boarders dozens of times. I was struck the first day of the season around the late 90's at snowshoe by an out of control teenager and I had a couple ribs broken. I have also spent a lot of time observing people on the snow and their actions. I have spent a lot of my time designing layouts for terrain parks to make them as safe as possible with signage, friendly shapes, flow patterns for traffic, and even staging of employees to babysit customers young and old.

When your child is struck find a patroller and tell them where it happened, give a description of the person, and express your concern that out of control skiers are not obeying signage and the responsibility code. Then use that moment to explain to your child why it is important that everyone is careful, obeys signage, and adheres to the responsibility code when skiing or boarding. When you send your child away for the weekend to ski with another family or a church group remind them of the responsibility code.

People can try to blame it on on snowboarders or maybe even mountains for packing their slopes or not policing or babysitiing. But really who's fault is it? That is easy. It is parents collectively who are at fault. Parents either don't know the responsiblity code themselves, they don't care, they don't teach it to their children, or worse yet they give their kid and his friends a lift ticket and say "I will meet you when the lifts close". It is easy to watch. Stand by a SLOW sign at a trail merge or go into the terrain park and watch how many parents disobey the responibility code, don't stop to read signage with there children, don't slow down when they come to a trail merge or slow sign...and they do all this with their own kids skiing beside them. Most parents don't tell their kids anything at all except where the should meet for lunch. The majoirty of parents are guilty of this...I have watched it first hand for over a decade. It is no wonder the kids/teenagers/some adults end up so reckless and oblivious to the dangers. They learned it directly or indirectly from their parents.

This past week I was teaching on the buny hill and the greens most of the week. I was struck by atleast 2 dozen small children on skis and boards who could not stop. I wasn't hurt...the kids where small. But most of these kids where being taught to ski or ride by their parents. Not one, not one, not one parent told their child to say sorry or apologize. Not one, not one, not one parent took the time to tell their child that it is their responsibility as the uphill skier to stay in control or atelast not hit the person down hill. They just picked their child up and kept on going. There is a slow sign at the bottom of the Bunny hill where it merges onto another trail. I have never, never seen a parent who is skking with or teaching their child slow down at this trail merge. Yet I have seen countless collisions at that point.

I was helping the terrain park crew tune up the jump in the beginner park one day last week. Before we started we put up a bamboo X on the center of the take-off on the jump becasue we were working near the landing. Five minutes after we started with the rakes a group parents came and stood about 30 feet behind us. The parents took out cameras and then their kids one by one began to use the same jump we were working on. The parents stood their taking pictures and congratulating them on their jumps.... not to say anything that they were using a closed jump and could possibly run into and hit the employees working on the jump. Unbelievable.

I wathced dozens of parents standing on the backside of a jump over the week taking pictures of their kids. The parents where standing in the landing zone. The signage clearly states do not stand in the landing zone. I could go on and on and on with stories of parents acting like this with their kids by their side.

I doubt to many parents would send their 16 year old out to drive without knowing the rules of the road and how to obey signage. I don't know... maybe resorts should make kids wear license plates on their asses and if they hit someone or disobey a sign it will raise the parents auto insurance rate.

Good points Tucker, besides parents not teaching the rules, I've seen race teams be another major culprate. For some reason every resort I've ever worked at the race teams thinks it is a good idea to all go down the park at the same time side jumping features a crossing in and out of each other. I think we can all agree that better education will make things safer for us all. The problem is when most people go on vacation they leave their common sense at home, wether it be doing a u turn on a two lane 55mph road or blasting past slow skiing signs when people are spending a lot of money they just think they have the right to don whatever they want.

When teaching, kids relate pretty well to:
"Today, let's not hit anyone - no one at all".
Kids think I am crazy. They smile and laugh, but they'll fall before hitting anyone.
Perhaps it is very much like a driving license as stated earlier, and perhaps a 10 second speech at the ticket window could be worth it:
"here are your tickets, 2 adults, 5 kids. When skiing, don't forget that everyone below you has the right of way - we wouldn't want you or your kids to run over any one?!"
They'll just need to be reminded, so perhaps each chair could (in the near future) be equipped with small monitors.
Timberline would have 17 minutes worth of Chair Lift Lessons along with codes of ethics, along with safety).
Wow - I should market this idea - complete with crashes to make them understand the visuals.
... and then I woke up - and there were no monitors on lifts ...

I was taking some free runs before line-up on lightning one day last week. Lightning is a black, expert trail. I was riding behind a dad and his two kids. The Dad and his two kids were all wearing race team jackets from one of the lowland Va resorts. At the bottom of lightning a green trail crosses, mid-station lift traffic enters the trail, and the black, expert white lighting turns into a green beginner trail. At that merge point there is a large slow sign and an orange fence.

The dad with kids by his side rips through the slow sign and merges onto the green trail and keeps ripping through the begginer terrain in between beginner traffic and a group of about 8 beginner boarders who were trying to learn on a beginner trail. The snowboarders were rolling around and falling all over the beginner trail and then taking a moment to get back up before they fell again immediately. I remember the boarders specifically because I stopped and told them they would have a much better day if they took a lesson(they looked like they were beating themselves up trying to figure it out).

A few moments later I was in the lift line and I heard the same Dad who ripped through the slow sign and through the beginner area bad mouthing the snowboarders to his two kids. He said "did you see those boarders sitting in the middle of the trail at the bottom of that expert trail, they are lucky we didn't hit them".

Hmmmmm whitetail has big monitors at lift, mostly advertising cars, if they mixed in any safety messages I missed it. they did have a very prominate sign at top of mountain with safety code on one of the busier runs. I stopped and looked at it because it was first time I had seen anyone do this. It was like a small roadside sign right in the middle of the top lip where you drop in. Maybe it works. Like I said whitetail was pretty ok, even with the huge crowd on the day I was there.

[/quote]
Hmmmmm whitetail has big monitors at lift, mostly advertising cars, if they mixed in any safety messages I missed it. [/quote]

Bumps, I think you did miss it. Yellow signs at chair height on many of the poles both at Whitetail and Liberty--all safety messages.

We can complain all we want about out of control skiers and riders but as long as the industry exists, there will be collisions. Consider the driving habits of those behind the wheel. It's the same mentality. I don't think it's just an American issue either. However, in some European countries, collisions by snow sport enthusiasts is treated the same as physical assalts and/or auto accidents. Perhaps we need to consider that type of punishment as well. Fines, banishment from mountains, or if severe, incarceration and if it's a juvenile who is guilty, place the punishment on the parent as is done in school truancy issues. Then again, that would require mountains to hire another classification of employees for skier safety.

My solution would be to empower existing employees such as ski school, lift ops, etc... to mark/take tickets and escourt violators of the code to patrol for the consequences of the violation. Those consequences should be posted at the ticket windows, printed on the tickets, and posted in a conspicious place at lift lines. Sort of like PA did with the cost of fines for the speed you drive. Let them know up front what will happen. It may deter the majority of skiers/boarders from endangering others through reckless behavior.

I've been compiling footage for the past few years of things people should not do when skiing/riding looks like it time to make the video. Any suggestions for music?

Yes, I did see signs. I was just talking about the big TV monitor I saw trying to get me to buy a volvo at the express lift.

Can a non skier get his .02 in?
I just started skiing this past January and the first time I went - with a friend to Whitetail - I took a lesson because I didn't know what the hell I was doing. (still don't if truth be told)
The instructor was great and all with the instruction but as we wound down the lesson I had to ask him what we were supposed to do when we fell etc, and then.... he just said "enjoy your day at Whitetail."
1) no mention specifically of trail rules (just watch up the slope)
2) we did the magic carpet exclusively so no mention of what to do safety wise when getting on and off a lift.
3) no "you guys are all beginners so I better not see you getting on the lift to the blues anytime soon." you know stuff like that.
We were all just literally just standing there at the bottom of the bowl wondering where to go next. I met back up with my friend and he filled me in on what to watch out for.
Now i stayed on the greens so it wasn't much trouble to avoid people when you don't go but so fast.
So this next statement may sound kind of ignorant but I got the impression from the two times I went that skiing is pretty much an amusement park on snow. People were just all over the place and it was kind of easy to lose track of people you were with.
Now some here are describing "rules" I should have been following? I would have been happy to see an upclose copy but there were too few patrols around and too many skiers around me to think about that.
I apologize if that sounds harsh, because I had a great time skiing, but i truly got the idea that (at least the one Saturday I went) things were in what I would describe a pleasant haze when it came to awareness. The place was too packed and more were rolling in when we left.
There must have been hundreds just standing around, and a couple laying around in the bowl totally oblivious of the other skiers coming down trying to stop.

Marshall, I'll say the guidelines were printed on the ski map for the area at least they have been at every area I've ever skied at. Here is a reference:
http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/82663/skier-rider-code-of-conduct

Personally I think #2 ("People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.") is the one that needs to strengthened and spread more broadly. I'd say that regardless of how slow, erratic, confused or poorly the person ahead of you is skiing, it is solely your responsibility not to hit them. If you hit them, it is entirely your fault.

Marshall, thanks for your honest opinion as a new skier.

It is interesting that you reference an "amusement park", so many times the folks in the industry who talk about this phenomenom say "it's as if people in the Mid-A buy their lift ticket, get on the lift and then point there skis downhill like it's an amusement park ride".

I am amazed that your instructor didn't teach the responsibiliity code...that doesn't say much for the teaching at whatever resort that was or it could be an isolated incident. The code should be taught in every lesson. Regardless, at the end of a lesson you should never be standing there wondering what to do next. How many people where in that lesson with you?

But two of the other code items imply responsibility on the downhill slider:


#4 Is probably the most violated rule of them all... Especially if you lump in it taking a jump with a landing run-out that takes you sideways across the main part of a trail. You have uphill, downhill and sideways. Not so simple.