The first Timberline Telemark Clinic is this Saturday, January 22. The Clinic is a great deal and the instruction is truly first rate. I learned to telemark in these clinics and I guarantee they can help anyone improve. Timberline has a really good Nordic teaching staff. There will be a Nordic Examiner, two level III instructors and a bunch of level II instructors. They can handle any level. By the way, if you are an advanced skier don't skip lessons, they can really help you jump to the next level.

Classes will be small and the snow is perfect for learning. This is the clinic to attend if you are only going to make one. Early season and good snow. Gives you time to work on what you learned. I'll be participating for sure.

If you have any specific questions post away and I'll do my best to answer.

PS - I'm not an employee - just a friend of the Nordic Staff. They are tremendous folks and extremely generous. I can't remember a day skiing at Timberline when one of them didn't grab me for a run and give me free pointers.

I understand that they will be discounting your lift ticket purchase when you take this clinic - so be sure to check in with the ski school BEFORE making a ticket purchase.

On a different note, I will be on the snow taking pictures. This should help you visualize the part of your skiing that needs improvement.

For those who have never attended before:
I will be bringing some gear to show you how versatile tele can be. Gear will include scaled skis, skis with skins, and of course, an ascending parachute. (that should spice it up even more)

Couple more days for your Tele workshop / clinic.
First timers are welcomed - conditions expected to be near perfect with the new snowfall.
Advanced free-heelers: want powder? Want to improve?
Alright then... bring some bright clothing so that pictures will turn out even better.
Orange: Fantastic
Blues: always good
Green: top notch, especially if bright & abnoxious!

Does Timberline rent Tele gear?

I'm interested in the whole skin up ski down thing, but obviously don't own the gear yet.

I don't think so but you could call or TGV might know. Whitegrass definitely rents skis but I'm not sure about boots.

i heard tline had a few tele rentals again. (maybe not the boots tho?)

white grass does, BUT there is a NATO Tele workshop with dickey hall that same weekend. But.. most of those folks wont be renting the big downhill tele gear to use for it. dub-g has one size run in the big 3buckle tele boots and maybe one or 2 extra in the popular sizes. and plenty of the garmont excursion 2buckle plastic boots you could get away with using with the downhill tele skis.

if you are into the earn your turns thing like you say you should definitely go to the NATO workshop and learn real world skills/techniques/ideas instead of the pretty looking, but sterile psia methods

Yeah Tline does rent tele gear but they only have about 3-4 pairs of boots and everything they do have (skis included) is in pretty bad shape. I'd definitely go to Whitegrass.

Every year the clinics are on the same date. Geez, can't these guys communicate?

Definitely should check out NATO workshop if you want to get some granola old school instruction from the 60's where you talk about your inner turns and get the low rider look that is good for a couple of turns before your legs give out (otherwise come over and learn some efficient modern turns at the PSIA clinic)

Since I have everyone's attention. How does an AT setup compare to tele for earning turns. AT would seem closer to the alpine I'm used to, but I'm guessing the boots are stiffer making the climb less comfortable?

AT are better on up and down these days (by better I mean most efficient). On the down it is Alpine.

But no reason for AT in the Middle Atlantic, especially if you want to do tele turns. Get heavier tele gear if you are going to be doing lots of resort tele skiing or Western backcountry and lighter gear like Chaga was talking about if you want to do Whitegrass type backcountry. You will probably end up with both setups if you get into it.

I'm more interested in being able to try something like Whitegrass.

I don't have any particular interest the tele turn, but would be willing to learn if there was a real advantage to using tele gear.

Whitegrass is a great place. You should check it out. But AT gear would be overkill. My opinion is that AT gear is basically useless for this part of the country. There just isn't enough big terrain to warrant investing in AT gear unless you plan to use it out West or in Europe.

We AT all over the back country here in the mid-Atlantic, it is really about what you are into. If it makes you happy to ski on skinny skis and light weight gear go do it.

In the last several years tele gear has gotten heavier while AT gear is getting lighter. The new gen of AT boots are a dream to tour in, Dynafits are free pivot(have been from the begining) and wow guess what, my heels are free(on the up).

Perhaps I was a bit too harsh. I have an AT setup with Dynafit bindings and they are awesome. I just don't use them much around here. But if you have no interest in tele turns then go AT. If you are interested in AT then check this place out - it is the center of the universe for AT skiing and gear info

http://www.wildsnow.com/

TomH, what time is the clinic at TL on Sat. and what is the duration? Could not find any details on the TL website.

Sounds like AT would be the way to go for me. I like alpine and without any particular desire to change, the smaller learning curve is appealing. I guess the question then becomes whether anyone around here actually sells it. (And where to get the cash.) Boots at least I'd want to be able to try on.

Oh, and sorry for the thread hijack. Back to Tele Clinic talk.

..this is a really great clinic and your gauranteed to get a low student to teacher ratio and practical instruction on the mechanics of tele skiing with some of the best tele instructors on the east coast...if you want info on the clinic call 1 800 SNOWING and ask for the ski school desk (from 9 am -4 pm)...you are not going to find much useful info on the t-line web site...I don't know why they don't get Vic to run that site???

Re: AT equipment and skins. The problem I have with skins either on AT or non-scaled tele-gear is taking them off and putting them back on. If you can climb a good 1000 vertical or more for a nice ride down that is great but if the verticals are a lot shorter maybe a BC ski like the old Kahru 10th mountain (new Madshus Epoch) with scaled bottoms and AT boots and bindings would work better around here. The 10th mountains and a light plastic tele-boot (G3, I think)can be rented at White Grass. Tony over there said that you can parallel on them but I never found my sweet spot when I rented and ended up doing a lot of stem christie turns. The Crispis tele-boots that I have work well for parallel on tele-gear but touring gets rather heavy and blisters can be a problem.

Now we return to our regularly scheduled thread.

KeithT,

As I remember the clinic generally starts around 9:00 but lifts open at 8:00 so you should be able to get set up and get your ticket and ski a few runs before things get started. Tucker is right the best thing to do is call the ski school desk. The clinic lasts most of the day.

LHC/ScottB - No hijack, its fun to talk about this stuff. A really good Tele skier from the Valley once told me that the way he decided if he should use scaled lighter gear or heavier gear (AT or Tele) was by determining the focus of the outing. If it was to get out in the woods with more emphasis on touring and rollers then go with the lighter gear because it is a hassle taking skins on and off ect ect. If you wanted to shred the down then wear heavier gear and deal with the hassle of taking your skins on and off. Its all about which compromise you want to make. Of course, there are some skiers that are great on the down even with light gear and probably some that don't find taking skins off heavier gear that big of a deal.

For starters:
Tline will have some boots and some gear (including last year's Rossi ski) but limited supply.
I will be bringing a bunch of AT, Tele, and kites: some for demo, some just to visualize.
Now... on with the debate that hasn't been resolved in 20+ years, nor will it be resolved on this forum: AT or Tele?!
I can tell you a bit about both, mostly because I have used both extensively. I find it remarkable that most people will crucify one vs. the other without even trying.

AT:
If you already alpine, AT is a no-brainer. It's simply heavy.
Put skins on and go. Arrive at the top, remove skins, ski down as you normally would.
There are 3 basic ways to climb up:
Carry your skis (lousy and slow)
Alpine Touring binding is easier. It has a hinge on the fore-foot to allow you mobility to climb and will lock down when you are ready to remove skins and ski down.
Typically, these are expensive and heavy as can be, with the exception of Dynafit (simply super expensive when you factor in the boot price).
Last but not least, the cheaper route is to install an adpater for the way up - complete with a hinge. It's cheaper, but heavier.
Bottom line: AT will give you more power on the way down, but will be rather super heavy on the way up. Gravity is a b**tch.

Telemark:
Well, all the advantages of tele can go right out the door if you don't have a clue how to come down (unless you are simply looking for exercise).
Skis are lighter, bindings are lighter and skis do not have to be as fat for powder, thus lighter. You can skin up, remove skins and ski down using tele turns. Timberline will have its clinic to get you started in the right direction and proven technique and methods - via PSIA.
I will totally disagree with Chaga though: PSIA isn't boring, nor is it sterile! The fact is that Chaga has never attended an entire clinic with PSIA (sorry buddy).
Timberline is nothing nearly founded on telemark - ask any one. The only other resort that promotes tele skiing as much as Timberline is Whitefish, Montana (amazing place for tele).

If you are brand new, a telemark turn using tele gear is a whole lot easier than a tele turn using cross country or light skis. I know this because I do both, I even ski down White Lightning using skating skis - in tele stance.

Once you have a good foundation, I not only recommend the NATO clinics, but I also highly recommend it. Meanwhile, and before this happens, you will have the "luxury" of catching a lift to make MORE tele turns and practice even more mistakes and corrections. Most importantly, you will have fun and a great experience seeing all sort of gear clearly laid out on the snow.

Timberline's workshop is structured for you to get the most out of telemarking - in a semi private environment, with a lift to spend more time doing what you signed up to do.

Either way, get on the snow this weekend - conditions in and around the valley are expected to be "well above average"

Oh yeah... and since I am French:
Do you know the meaning of Randonné?
(it's french for: I can't tele)
Sorry, I had to!

I ck out the Tele dudes on the slopes & I cringe at the knee bending work involved..I'm an alpine skier a downhill'er at Heart (Fast..with G-force turns)..Thats a thrill..not humping up a hill!
I think that I will grow too old & lazy to ever try the humping involved with this type of..EXCERSISE...

Can you all imagine a Top to bottom Downhill run from nearly 4800' MPC down to just above the red creek at 2500'?...2300' vert of G-Force..heart Throbing..leg Burning speed that will cure even the most addicted speed demons??..

Sorry Folks..spacing out again....carry on...

doh, nice one vic, but #1: you should know better not to take me too seriously...ever. #2: I HAVE been to a full tele clinic at tline before years ago. darrell, shelly, warren, etc, etc are all exceptional instructors and skiers. i just suck at the psia ways!

FishNSki: I know the feeling.
I clocked in at a mere 54.4 MPH yesterday, and I'll admit, it wasn't on tele!
Yet, after mastering somewhat telemarking, I have found myself throwing the tip of my tele skis down some rather hairy mountain top in MT, VT, and WV. If there is snow on it, I'd probably ski it. How fast? Well, the norm for tele skiing is a little slower, take your time, enjoy your turns etc... but when one wants, you'd be able to keep up with nearly any alpine skiers (short of a racer on SL4 or GS World Cup skis).
Thus, I believe that there are many other arguments that could come into play with Tele or AT - but speed isn't one of them.
Bending knees? Well, I know several 80+ year olds who telemark. I can only wish to look as good as them when I get to be that old.

Its all how you think about it, AT or Tele. If you think it sucks then it will because you make it so in your mind via conscious creation.

I have done the PSIA 2 day tele clinic, 10 years ago(or more) at Tslime, at the time it was good for me.

The best way to get better at any sport/activity is to go with people who are better than you and watch what they do (and what they do not do) then emulate it, clinic or not.

I got a great respect for the X-country Crowd..I was just trying to stir the puddin...sort of like the skier/boarder feud...gotta stick to light beer & stay away from the Ice beer stuff! ..This was too good of a thread to try that..

How do you know how fast you were going TGV??..GPS?..I Came straight down White Lightning one Eve without turning once after downing (Chugging) 2 absolutes & Vodka in a row at Timbers (I don't ski & drink anymore..Bad news)..My tight wool hat was sucked off my head & my Jacket was flapping as loud as a chainsaw & my lips had that 'got Milk?' look to them when i got up from kissing the snowy ground at the bottom!!..

I recall going PDF on old tele gear using the kick and glide method, thanks to Tom Yokum for that tip.

GPS - 3 readings a second.
I clocked 51.1 MPH at it took me 7 more runs to get any better.
Final clock was: 54.4 MPH (and held it for several seconds around 53+).
Truth be told: that felt really fast.
Skied a total of 22 runs on that day at TLine - using the new and improved triple; the trip back up was so fast that my heart rate (adrenaline?) barely had enough time to have a chance to "calm" down before I reached the top.
Alright: I am an Epinephrine junkie - but relax: it's all natural when you live in Canaan Valley.

Nick Devore (one of the best telemarkers in the world) tells this variant of Vic's French translation of Randonne joke:

"Do you know the meaning of Telemark? Its French for "Heh, wait up".

Here is a link to some of his cheesy Tele jokes and not so cheesy skiing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b-PAfJrPw8

Thanks for coming out. Couple of photos for the day's fun on www.visitcanaan.com (see EVENT PHOTOS on the right)