ski/board etiquette vs 'the rule'
20 posts
12 users
9k+ views
Sincraft
December 28, 2012
Member since 09/5/2011 🔗
256 posts
Simple topic.

The rule that everyone knows is, that the downhill skier/rider has the right of way. Meaning, if they zig and you want to pass, you better zag.

Yesterday I was riding as a defensive rider, on edge after say 11am as the crowds were SO bad.

There were many many times where I was riding down a nice line on the edge of the slope where there was a skim layer of powder, when out of no where, someone from 30-40' toward the middle of the slopes comes over and crosses my line to follow a friend to another slope, the powder, the trees, a jump near snowmaking equipment ...whatever.

Many times they cut straight over, didnt even bother to turn their head slightly left to look uphill before crossing, and were on either blue or black slopes.

I knew they had the right of way, I didn't yell or anything - just simply stopped or changed direction to the best of my ability to avoid collision. O

On two occasions I was within 2' of hitting into each other. On the 2nd occasion, I was done for the day.

My kids ski, and need to take a pretty wide left/right track to make it down the slope without building up too much speed. I explain to them that holding a line, ever so wide, is important for others behind you and, if they choose to move elsewhere on the slope, to look before crossing. This seems to make sense to me, even though they have the right away vs an uphill skier/rider.
hockeydave
December 28, 2012
Member since 06/30/2004 🔗
782 posts
Sadly, a lack of etiquette, not only on the slopes, but in life, are the norm rather than the exception in today's world.
Finsout
December 28, 2012
Member since 01/23/2001 🔗
104 posts
lack of etiquette occurs because nobody wants to educate offenders anymore. had similar problems in surfing until a few enforcers stepped up and took control. problem solved.
JohnL - DCSki Supporter 
December 28, 2012
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,565 posts
I think it is as much about ignorance and stupidity as it is lack of etiquette.

I am confused by the situation described by the OP. Were the skiers who were cutting across the hill a) initially stopped, then started the traverse across the hill or b) skiing downhill, then decided to cut to the side?

I think that makes a difference in terms of judging the situation.

We all get ticked off a bit when someone is in a spot that interrupts our sweet line. Whether they are stopped or moving. Buuut, I hope you noticed those traversing skiers that you were overtaking well in advance. (I assume you were overtaking them. See the two caveats below.) If you didn't notice them, then you need to seriously improve your skills (for safety and better sliding.) Far too many sliders are not looking downhill, but just past their ski/board tip(s).

To me, a dangerous ski situation is when several advanced skiers happen to be skiing parallel to each other on different sides of the trail. It is a lot more difficult to notice someone skiing to the exact side of you (versus in front of you), especially if they happened to start out at the same time as you did.

Kids doing jumps sideways across a hill (see that a lot around here) are a very dangerous situation. They are generally stopped prior to the jump, and they come across the hill sideways into or just below oncoming skiers, often a bit out of control. Very difficult to notice them. Not sure who would be a fault per the skier's code.

Speaking of the skier's code, there is some grey area and possible contradictions in the skier's code. At least in my reading of the code. For instance:

Quote:
People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.


Vs:

Quote:
Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.


And

Quote:
You must not stop where you obstruct a trail, or are not visible from above.


So, you could have both the uphill and downhill skiers guilty per the skiers code.

There are several common sense items not mentioned in the skier's code that skier's routinely ignore. Don't ski too close to someone when you pass them (if they are stopped or moving.) When passing skiers, expect them to suddenly vary their turn shape. Look uphill when traversing across a hill. When skiing downhill, expect skiers to be traversing across the hill at trail junctions. On a bump run, try to not stop in a prime zipper line.

One more subtle point to the OP. While I'll often keep the same turn radius and turn tempo when skiing down a hill, especially if I'm working on drills, I may decide to suddenly vary it. (The ability to vary your turns like that while keeping in control is important to advanced skiing.) I try not to do this on crowded trails, but as much as possible, I avoid crowded trails and areas.

Sincraft
December 28, 2012
Member since 09/5/2011 🔗
256 posts
John very good point! To be able to suddenly change direction is often fun, and sometimes needed ...LOG!!...

However, in this case, I was heading down the hill in a VERY busy situation whereas on two occasions someone opted to take a sharp turn towards my line below me, without looking, going much much slower than I, to go hit a jump near a lamppost or something. They were in both cases at least 30' to my right, and within approaching their horizontal line back about 20', they sharply turned and cut off several riders , me included. I avoided by narrowly.
Bumps
December 28, 2012
Member since 12/29/2004 🔗
538 posts
I don't think they are contradicting. The first applies to two skiers in motion going down a hill on the same trail. The second and third applies to a stopped skier and/or one who is entering onto a new trail where there are already skiers with established lines. I will say, the way they name merge trails can make it difficult sometimes to determine who is the mergee. But if all are looking uphil and merging appropriately should not be an issue. But I say the same thing everyday on I95.
Laurel Hill Crazie
December 29, 2012
Member since 08/16/2004 🔗
2,053 posts
On those occasions when I traverse a slope I always check for up hill traffic. It doesn't matter if I begin the traverse from a stop or if I'm moving. It only makes sense to me for my own safety.
Voila
December 29, 2012
Member since 12/17/2011 🔗
352 posts
Here's a thought:
Skiers & snowboarders make up about 5% of human population, and thus think they are "supreme beings". With this kind of an attitude, selfishness also sets in.

Add to the mix that people are just changing (not looking back to hold a door, stealing fuel, eating in front of others, etc...) and you better be on the defensive - at all times while on the snow.

Set yourself up for good times - and hope for the best - but this will happen over and over.

Otherwise, just start cross country skiing.
Denis
December 29, 2012
Member since 07/12/2004 🔗
2,352 posts
I don't think there is anything contradictory in the Skiers Code. There is some redundancy, which is IMHO a good thing. It provides a margin for error.

The first rule, that you are responsible for safely avoiding the skier or rider in front of you, is the most frequently violated both in practice and in spirit. He/she cut me off, is heard all the time. That statement is used to justify dangerous behavior and to inflame the culture war between skiers and snowboarders. snowboarders have a heel side blind spot. Well, None of us have eyes in the back of our head, so we all have a blind spot, it's just located differently according to stance on one's tool of choice. Snowboarding and twin tip skis, and skiing and riding switch, have further raised the importance of rule number one. There is no such thing as, "he cut me off". You cannot hit someone from behind unless they were in front of you, and therefore had the right of way, period.

There is often a further statement that, "this is a partial list be safety conscious." The parallel with cars on the highway is inescapable. With respect to driving, my non skiing wife likes to say that there is no up side to being in the right and dead. This is the way I think about the merging rule.
JohnL - DCSki Supporter 
December 29, 2012
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,565 posts
Maybe contradiction is not the best word, but an incident where both people in a collision can be at fault since more than one rule was violated.

Example 1: Just as you are about to pass a stopped skier, they start moving right into your path without looking uphill and you can't react quickly enough. Collision. Bam! Two rules violated. Both at fault.

Example 3: Resting at the bottom of one of the large whales at Timberline. Uphill skier notices too late that someone is at the bottom of the whale, loses and edge and plows into the skier below. Collision. Bam! Two rules violated. Both at fault.

Though I suspect ski patrol and the lawyers would place all the blame on the uphill skier and both times.
Laurel Hill Crazie
December 29, 2012
Member since 08/16/2004 🔗
2,053 posts
I take my motorcycle riding mentality with me when I ski...nobody sees me and I am always at the greater risk.

Tucker
December 30, 2012
Member since 03/14/2005 🔗
893 posts
...its just the way things are these days, nothing to do with skiing...majority of folks at these mid-a mountains are coming from highly populated areas...dc, richmond, baltimore, pittsburg, etc...sure there are lots of curteous folks out there but when I go to these cities I am amazed how most folks would rather walk over you then say hi...and that a red light on a left hand turn stop light at an intersection doesn't mean anything anymore...someone would rather cut you off in traffic so they can get somewhere faster...the skiing etiquette is just a reflection of society etiquette in general...watch your back its just gonna get worse...extend curtosy yourself---maybe it will be contageous...I love livin' in the valley where local folks say hi to each other and bend over backwards to offer a helping hand, no matter where you are from...sorry for spelling but gotta run---driveay just got cleared and I am off to ride---cough, cough,,,I mean work..
Voila
December 31, 2012
Member since 12/17/2011 🔗
352 posts
Bam!
(or think about it - with a little more respect & awareness)

* I think it's going to be my new quote: "BAM!"
Blue Don 1982
December 31, 2012
Member since 01/13/2008 🔗
1,595 posts
Originally Posted By: Laurel Hill Crazie
I take my motorcycle riding mentality with me when I ski...nobody sees me and I am always at the greater risk.


Amen to that.
Bumps
December 31, 2012
Member since 12/29/2004 🔗
538 posts
Quote:


Example 1: Just as you are about to pass a stopped skier, they start moving right into your path without looking uphill and you can't react quickly enough. Collision. Bam! Two rules violated. Both at fault.


Not sure I agree. If the downhill skier is bombing downhill or didn't slow when coming into a crowded area maybe, but if someone is stopped and they bounce out into a downhill skier that is on them.


Quote:

Example 3: Resting at the bottom of one of the large whales at Timberline. Uphill skier notices too late that someone is at the bottom of the whale, loses and edge and plows into the skier below. Collision. Bam! Two rules violated. Both at fault.

Though I suspect ski patrol and the lawyers would place all the blame on the uphill skier and both times.


Again depends on circumstance if a skier falls and you were fallowing them and failed to verify the had cleared your line maybe. But if someone stops in a blind stop area where uphill skiers can't see them until the last minute, again it is on them. This to me is one area that is very clear. I know of lawyers only getting involved in extreme situations. I think most judges would see skiing as having some element of risk and in situations as you described would be no fault. It is when a skier is not in control and unable to slow when a problem occurs or skiing way too fast for crowd conditions. I will say when I was at snowshoe Friday I was pleasently surprised at the ski etiquette. I did not have a single bad experience and it was packed. People were being careful crossing trails and keeping in control. I had a very bad experience a few years back at massenutten where a boarder jumping just missed my head and then had a major head over heel tumble. I thought the kid would be dead, but was fine. And now that I think about it, I feel there has been an improvement since 1990s early 2000's. I am betting the videos/education required for park passes have helped this as well. Sometimes I feel this discussion is same as folkswhothinkit was more wholesome in the decades past and just want to gloss over free love, roaring twenties, the liquid lunch/happy hour culture and decades of high drug use. But because TV and print(baseball players never did a bad thing) only showed a make believe place, people believe the make believe was the real world. Oops starting to go into rant mode....or maybe have already hit it smile
Crush
December 31, 2012
Member since 03/21/2004 🔗
1,283 posts
my freakin' 2-cents worth ... my problem is dumb-a$$ skiers actually - riders never really give me problems it is the guys on two sticks straight-lining off the sides just near the apex of my turns and not respecting. i've been hit from behind by some "awesome skier" trying to pass me (tho that does not happen often lol) - look i like fast gs turns like this (ooops almost hit the camera operator lol target fixation it happens) i don't see riders trying it along the tree line etc unlike the local ski "talent" ha ha.
fishnski
December 31, 2012
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
Originally Posted By: Crush
my freakin' 2-cents worth ... my problem is dumb-a$$ skiers actually.


FRIGGIN TRAITOR!!!...Geeeshhh...
Crush
December 31, 2012
Member since 03/21/2004 🔗
1,283 posts
Originally Posted By: fishnski

FRIGGIN TRAITOR!!!...Geeeshhh...


a hahah buh buh buuh you're hanging around dc ski on new years eve too, buddy lol! well i'll be @ hidden valley on wednesday so many skiers can try to hit me yay!
Bumps
January 1, 2013
Member since 12/29/2004 🔗
538 posts
You call that fast ?! smile didn't mean to disparage boarders, I was actually thinking about both skiers and boarders who get park passes. I think that is the only time many of them even hear the rules of the slopes. You do raise another interesting scenario. Two people coming down slope. On is doing quick turns and the other large curves. At some point you are about equal but the large curve skier is coming across the slope his apex is going to be at the exact same spot the quick ski skier is tearing up ome edge powder bumps. I have been on both sides and I am always pissed if the other guy doesn't break his line. LOL. I guess strictly speaking it is up to the faster uphill skier the edge skier in this place to chech his speed and try to time his pass when the another guy is on the other side of the slope.
Crush
January 1, 2013
Member since 03/21/2004 🔗
1,283 posts
Originally Posted By: Bumps
...You do raise another interesting scenario. Two people coming down slope. On is doing quick turns and the other large curves. At some point you are about equal but the large curve skier is coming across the slope his apex is going to be at the exact same spot the quick ski skier ...


had it happen *lots* of times - in particular when i lived in Utah my friend Jeff and I would ski together and we ski the exact opposite (he is the quick turns guy, and of course I am the large GS/SuperG sized ones). i tend to turn my head and look where i want to end up and then the turn comes and follows it so i can usually spot the other skier and since i am sort of the blocker i try to vary my line so that the other skier will pass me as i bring it out of the fall line - I tend to pretty much make a "C" shaped turn every time so i just tighten up so the other guy goes by just as i am starting the new turn - works for me. i guess you just have to be a little proactive.

Ski and Tell

Snowcat got your tongue?

Join the conversation by logging in.

Don't have an account? Create one here.

0.15 seconds