I am enthusiastic about 7 Springs acquiring Hidden Valley, I recognize the potential impacts that can be associated with 1 owner having control over several resorts, but I also see many positive aspects from this merger. I have heard many people make comments about Nutting pushing business towards 7 Springs after acquiring HV, but in reality, there are limited amenities at Hidden Valley. How is it possible to steer business towards 7 Springs if the business doesn't exist? I see tons of potential growth in amenities. Additionally, change isn't always an easy thing to grasp and predicting the future is impossible, but I think it is necessary to discuss the pros and the cons of this acquisition.

Cons - Nutting
Pros - Nothing

It is a bit too early to tell, but here is what I would expect (or hope for in the 'pros' group):
PROS
- Joint season pass or reciprical privaleges for skiing
- potential to have season pass priveledges at 3 ski resorts(HV, 7S and LM)
- Improvements/renovated dining at HV
- Discounts on amenities such as zip line if you are a season pass holder
- New real estate development
- Reduction in the # of unsold properties
- Expanded terrain
- renovated base lodge
- A company with more resort management experience
CONS
- higher prices
- higher prices
- higher prices
- more crowds
- Scott Bender will probably leave

In the following article, Nutting seems to indicate that HV will be operated as an 'independent' resort and not as a 'satellite' location of 7S. This, in my opinion, would be very positive and could even enable some healthy competition among Nutting 'subsidiary's'.

http://www.theintelligencer.net/page/con...rt.html?nav=510

Nutting businesses are noted for strong attention to bottom line and expense controls. The loss of competition between the two resorts has to result in higher prices for all of us - the question is will we gain a better skiing experience in return for those higher prices?
While just guesswork at this point, I would expect to see some form of joint operating strategy. Sell season passes for both 7 Springs and Hidden Valley (albeit at a higher price and without some of the early purchase discounting) and then sell a premium "all-mountains" pass good at both resorts. During slow times only have one resort open but allow season pass holders from the closed resort to ski but make them jump through hoops like getting a lift ticket at the pass office. Maybe have HV closed Tues through Thurs while keeping 7S open. Close tubing at HV except on weekends and holidays. One management team running all ski operations and marketing. Think of ways you would minimize expenses to maximize income and that is what will be done. It's not evil - it's just business.

putting my stamp in this very important thread

carry on

Hmmmm. Maybe leave all terrain above green ungroomed on new snow days.

If Seven Springs reduces hours that radically, I am placing my ski house up for sale. That said, I do not see them doing that.
My concerns is that 7S will derive little income from season pass sales this year for HV. They need to sell lift tickets this year to get operating money. How will that affect our their decisions? Hopefully, they realize the value of good will.

20 years of losing Pirate baseball (finally over) after being provided the best stadium in America (sorry Baltimore, better than Camden Yard) funded exclusively by taxpayer money while all during this time he pocketed MLB small market revenue sharing (and refusing to open up the Pirate accounting books).

Absolutely zero movement or money put forth to reopen Laurel while blaming the state for moving slowly.

I must say, IMHO, you'll be hunting a long time looking for any good will emanating from Nutting.

I have an idea. How about a thread touting anything positive about Nutting. Don't care if the poster has a first hand account, second hand account, is a near or distant relative, whatever. I would really like to hear anything positive about Nutting (sorry Jimmy, born in West Virginia doesn't count as a positive attribute). I, along with others, have blasted this man mercilessly, and in my mind, with good reason. I really hope there are two sides to his personal and business story.

I have absolutely no affiliation with Nutting & I am able to see the positives in the merger. Plus, I have seen major improvements at 7 Springs, I'm sorry, but I honestly can't walk into 7 Springs without being amazed at the changes. Yes, there is room for improvement, but overall, the entire resort has received a major facelift. Can any Nutting basher please prove to me how 7 Springs is not better since he has taken over?

I'd be happy to discuss it over a fine meal right after we ski Alpine Meadows this winter.

I'll even rent a plane and we can fly in/fly out.

HD, Lucky for me I spent the first three months of my life as a Cornhusker.

What is good will? Good will is the premium a buyer is willing to pay that a bank will not finance, generally it refers to the cash that the old owner stuffed in their pocket without paying taxes, can't finance that, just saying. I guess it could also include things such as free stadiums, grants and tax credits from the government.

I still go to Seven Springs once a year to make sure I still don't like it. Last season we spent a day there skiing frozen icy groomers on the way to Timberline, where we spent the next four days skiing packed powder. The year before that I was assaulted by a snowboarder who almost ran me down from behind; he was pissed because the eyes in the back of my head were not working.

Hey GG, that sounds like a nice day, Alpine Meadows and all, maybe we could have a gathering. I'm sure our hardcore skier friends from HV will want to join in. I will meet you there though, I am afraid to fly.

I know this is a serious issue to some but that ^^ was funny.

My son and I hit 7S on 3/28/13 last year and honestly, we had a great time. Fresh snow, no crowds and best of all tickets were free since we used our swap option on our Snowshoe season pass.

I thank HV for staying open because I'm sure 7S would have been closed if HV was not open.

Good luck to all of you who frequent 7S and HV or own property up there. This is be an interesting situation now Bob N controls all 3 ski areas.

Credit goes to Ma Nature for providing great conditions that day.

I think we can be critical of all the ski areas we have in this area. Timberline is great place to ski if you don't freeze to death on the slow lifts. Same with Blue Knob...they perhaps should call it Blue Fingers. Seven Springs is a great place to ski on a weekday. It has alot of terrain for these parts. The lifts are fast and I enjoy a good meal at Helens. Snowshoe takes 6 hours to get to and I may as well drive to New England if I am going to drive that far just to ski 800 feet of vertical(with the exception of 2 trails). Whitetail is always icey since the mountain faces the wrong way. Wisp can be very crowded on weekends, the mountain has that flat area on parts of it and they built too many houses spoiling the view.Etc, Etc.

I guess what I am saying...why do we continually trash 7S. We're already ski area challenged here in the mid-Atlantic. Do we want to have less choices? Rejoice in the different character, plus/Minuses and quirks of the ski areas we have.

My only comment -- and I think gizmosnow hit the nail on the head awhile ago in the other thread -- is that people vote with their wallet. Ultimately, they do. Even if 7S was the only resort within 2 days of here, there is some point where people simply wouldn't go.

From what I can see, people are still voting for Nutting, even if they aren't always thrilled with that vote...kind of like a lot of political elections, no good choice, but maybe a better one than the available alternatives. Or, per my example above, there is a point where you stay home on Tues cause you're a completely disenfranchised voter.

I'm not saying that makes Nutting a good person, or even a good business owner. But lack of customers is not his problem, which says, at the very least, something.

We have what nature gave us. That includes a few thousand acres of hardwood forest in the Allegheny Front highlands of WV, where one can have untracked snow and light competition in exchange for sweat equity. Pure skiing without swimming pools and bowling alleys. Inquire with Chip at Whitegrass. Beats any of the mid A lift served areas in my opinion. That's why I go there.

This isn`t the right forum to address this and I`m certainly not a big fan of Nutting. The Pirates yes, but not Nutting. Whatever the case, the money from revenue sharing was invested in the minor leagues including a major investment in the Dominican Republic and in fact no team has spent more money on their draft picks over the last 5 years than the Pirates.


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/.../1#.UjWeQSTD85s

Sorry Zooman. I beg to differ. I believe this is the right forum to address this issue because what he has done with the Pirates, Seven Springs and Laurel may very well, actually, most likely will be a barometer of what he'll do with Hidden Valley.

And the article states the following:



The only reason he spent $$$ on recent drafts is because the sportswriters turned on him and the organization, along with the fans, who showed up only when a fireworks display or a rock concert were scheduled after a game. Otherwise, they typically played in front of sparse crowds of 20k and usually substantially less. In his defense now, they did spend $$$ and are now winning. Lets just see if winning baseball is the norm rather than the exception over the next couple of years.

Also, I spoke with an HV employee yesterday. He expects a major turnover of personnel, especially all of the former 7S folks who moved over to HV from 7S when Nutting took over at 7S.

That is the way of business. When there is a takeover, friendly or hostile, 90% of the employees are replaced within a year. The new management wants their people. Therefore anyone who hears even a whiff of rumor that their company is going to experience a takeover is well advised to start looking for a new job. It may not be needed if they are lucky, but options are always a good thing. When a new male takes over a pride of lions he kills all the cubs because they are not of his line.

Valid point and well said Denis. I was trying to think of a way to use a hyena rather than a lion in an analogy, but none came to mind.

That is an exaggeration and just not based on any facts I know of . Why don't we try and scare all of the HV employees! My company has purchased several other companies and we have keep 99% of the people. HV does not have a large staff to begin with, so I would imagine that most will stay. However, I am sure that 7S will install some their own people since they own the place.

Snowsmith, I don't think Denis was trying to scare anybody, but the sad fact is that personnel turnover does happen, especially at the top levels. Buncher took over and all of the Kettler Bros management team were gone in short order. I only know of a couple of 7S managers that are left after Nutting took over from the Dupres. I witnessed it firsthand when Bombardier bought Daimler Chrysler Rail Systems.

It may take a little time, but people, mostly at the top will be removed or "we appreciate the years of service employee X has given us, but he/she has decided to pursue other opportunities. We wish him/her the best in their future endeavors."

Agreed. I think some HV folks will loose their jobs, no doubt. In fact, I understand that HV employees will be interviewing for their jobs. But over time, as growth happens, and hopefully it will, new jobs will be created. As it stands now, the Buncher's have wittled the staff down to the minimum. It can't really get any smaller.
I heard that Hops Pub will cease operations as of Sept. 30. Not sure what will replace it. But Skyline Ventures contract was with Buncher and 7S has their own food operations.
As a property owner, the uncertainty of the whole thing is a little scary, but I am positive that this will result in improvement.
I am concerned that the negative talk on this forum could impact property sales and values. Do a google search and DCSKI comes up for this subject. Note that Scott Bender reads this forum.

Sorry, I did not mean any harm with my post. And you're right, I don't have any numbers, I just know from friends, family, and business pages that it's a trend. I suspect it applies primarily to mid managers and up, as has been noted.

My daughter's company was taken over about 5 years ago and my savvy business woman wife (I'm not savvy) advised her of this. After having a few days to think about it my daughter boldly applied for a position that she thought was a big reach. It got her noticed, they loved it and she got the promotion. She has gotten several more since and is now at the flagship facility of the company. Every setback is also an opportunity. FWIW.

..nice...add that one to the list...