Hello folks”¦.time for some thought provoking conversation but also for fun.  I’m a new member but have always been a visitor. Name is Chris. Ok here goes”¦.and Im sure you have heard this before but”¦.

Within 5-10 years, I’m interested in creating a small back country type private ski area with some old style cabins (fireplaces, beds and warm water that’s it) scattered throughout the property.  I own a few commercial real estate properties so I am no stranger to developing land. That’s about where my expertise ends though”¦.

I am thinking about 500-600 foot of vertical with 3-4 slopes/glades that are about 2,000 to 3,000 feet long.  Lifts would be one used chairlift or a series of 3-4 rope tows/button lifts. 100% snowmaking that will cover apprx 15 acres of skiable terrain.

Assume the money is there to build the small infrastructure (engineering, lift, water pond, pumps, compressors, fan guys, all plumbing/electric  etc)”¦.

Here are my two questions:

1. Location. We would need the best location for snowmaking, not necessarily the snowiest place.  Specifically looking at both sides of the Alleghany Front.  On the west side (Pharis Knob area up to Canaan Valley) takes up more snowfall, but that can also include rain at times no?  Perhaps the east side of Spruce Knob (Onego, Cherry Fork, Snowy Mountain area) would be a little drier and hence be more productive at making snow (lower wet bulb temps).  The Terra Alta and west of Deep Creek would be a secondary location.  Assuming the land purchased is within state or national forest”¦..can this be built even though the land is privately owned?  Are we going to get crushed by environmentalists? No condo’s, golf course etc”¦.just slopes think Mad River Glen. 
2. Snowmaking”¦..anyone have any idea how much local resorts budget for their snowmaking/electric bill every year? 

Thoughts????????

Best way to make a small fortune owning a ski area is to start with a large fortune...

best place to look is in the lost ski areas, why did they fail??? can you get past that!!

enviormental concers differ with state and even county. 

been there done that, (coming soon to lost ski areas)

imp

Its my best guesstimation that most "lost areas"  that folded did so because of three reasons. They were unable to afford/obtain insurance any longer, or they had inadequate snowmaking, or they became undercapitalized for what they were trying to do. The goal here is not to make money, but I dont want to lose any either. In fact, the mountain would be capped to 200-300 people on busiest days. The goal is to provide good snow, good/different terrain, limit the amount of people on the mountain and offer top of the line dining/entertainment.  12,000 skier visits a year....basically 1,000 people a week Dec 15th to March 15th. Modestly would generate $1MM in revenue. Electricity and insurance are your huge overhead costs....if those can be controlled....and I'm not saying they can.....this would certainly be feasible assuming you can get it built

skiingchris wrote:

.... In fact, the mountain would be capped to 200-300 people on busiest days. ..

 

 

...thats not how it works in the mid-a,,,atleast in the geographical areas you have mentioned....resorts in these areas make the mass majority of there revenue during xmas week and a couple holiday weekends...and 1 mil revenue is ridiculousssss low to make anything happen...

This has been tossed around on DCSKI over the years...My 2 curved turns worth say that the western front areas (WV Alpps)..in an area accesible to the new super hiway would be best....
u could pick a place like the areas just west of Harrisonburg va..near the wv/va boarder where it is very scenic but snow starved...and MORE rain than the western front areas..might tap into some folks too lazy and broke to head to the alpps but im thinking if u r going to put that effort in..head west young man!..
.A place that small would only work with some wicked planning for a terrain park...I have always fantasized on a terrain park on the ridge behind my house just south of Canaan valley..Im thinking that the future of ski areas in general...and Canaan Valley hopefully will see some drastic earth removal and moving that will enhance the terrain to the point that 1000 foot verticle will seem HUGE!!!

skiingchris wrote:

12,000 skier visits a year....basically 1,000 people a week Dec 15th to March 15th. Modestly would generate $1MM in revenue

Chris - is my math correct $1MM / 12K = $83.33 per visit?  What is your revenue model to generate 1MM?  

I'm not trying to be a party pooper but that seems VERY aggressive for 3 - 4 slopes with 500 - 600 vert.

Are you thinking bada$$ terrain like MRG or easy/family stuff?  If latter and given your expressed location preferences I'd stick close to corridor h or I68 and as east as possible if you want Wash/Balt business.  You could go more remote if you find exceptional hardcore terrain.  Sure you just don't want to run Canaan Valley ski area or partner with Timberline or Whitegrass?

You might want to contact Jamie from this group and pick his brain on trying to do a modern mom and pop ski area:  http://www.mountainridersalliance.com/

This would considerably less risky if you did it in a part of the country that relied less on snowmaking, but Whitegrass shows it can be done, sort of.

Sounds similar in concept to Mt Bohemia in Michigan's Upper Peninsula - a very low-frill, low overhead cost operation with limited lifts, etc. Of course, they get 270 inches of snow per year and are much less prone to mid-season thaws, so they can get away with not having any snowmaking.