Canaan Valley will see the closure of a favorite watering hole and good restaurant when Deerfield closes it's doors on the 28th of October and Amelias will be closed until further notice on the same date. After losing Timber's last year and Tucker's/Big Als a couple of years ago it's obvious that the valley is dying. Rentals are robust in the late spring, summer, and fall, but winter has been lack-lust for a list of obvious reasons. Blackwater Falls State Park's sled run had a banner year in 2017-18 and will probably do even better this year. White grass, when the weather cooperates, rivals the alpine areas of Canaan Valley and Timberline in attendance. Real estate values have plummeted as the lack of wintertime investment has created a heightened level of uncertainty in the market. Many have watched real estate investments lose hundreds of thousands in value in the last several years while other parts of the area has witnessed a healthy rebound in values. There are reasons for this but I'll let others speculate on the reasons (mostly obvious) while locsls and homeowners try to survive this localized recession where 20 years ago a boom was occuring. All that is left in the valley that is a "sure thing" is CV State Park and with a corporation with only a goal of profit at the cost of product running it's show it's not that wonderful. Part of that blame falls on the state and its reluctance to improve recreational facilities as in snowmaking.
This is really getting worse by the day. Surely someone in Charleston is noticing? Is no one in CV, Davis, Thomas asking for help? If lack of water is the CV snowmaking problem, then why is it not being addressed as a priority capital improvement??!! And other than a few insiders, no one seems to understand what is and is not happening with Timberline! Even with tight money why is there no obvious planning, or hint of planning so the public at large can get behind a positive future? It truly is a sad frustrating situation. WAKE UP WEST VIRGINIA!!!
The Colonel
aka MorganB
The Colonel wrote:
This is really getting worse by the day. Surely someone in Charleston is noticing? Is no one in CV, Davis, Thomas asking for help? If lack of water is the CV snowmaking problem, then why is it not being addressed as a priority capital improvement??!! And other than a few insiders, no one seems to understand what is and is not happening with Timberline! Even with tight money why is there no obvious planning, or hint of planning so the public at large can get behind a positive future? It truly is a sad frustrating situation. WAKE UP WEST VIRGINIA!!!
The Colonel
aka MorganB
Ah, but kwllg6 was precise for a reason: the Valley is dying ... not Davis or Thomas. In fact, see today's New York Times (!) travel section for a feature on the economic revival in Davis and Thomas: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/09/travel/west-virginia-towns.html
It has always been somewhat hard to make a restaurant work in the Valley - look at the parade of failures in the old Tucker's/Coyote's space. But Sirianni's proves there is demand if done right.
The problem is that when a supposedly "four seasons resort" is closed for the spring, summer and fall, it creates the impression that there is no life in the Valley. WG is of course a winter-only operation also, and CVR state park appeal mainly to people staying there. So while real estate in the Valley may rent well in the summer to the hiking/biking/etc crowd, most any visitor to the area will quickly conclude that you need to go "into town" for dining, entertainment, retail, etc. Davis booms (a little) while the Valley dies.
Excellent point on the distinction between Davis/Thomas and the Valley. I would also guess the CVR state park is doing fine with non-winter business - to cite just one example, I would guess they do OK hosting conferences. Are the park finances publicly available? If the state is already turning a profit then it seems unlikely they will approve any winter-only large scale capital improvements, as much as we wish otherwise. Why would the state risk losing money on such a weather/climate dependent activity like skiing if they are already turning a profit overall?
For lift-serviced skiing to every reach the next level in the Valley it will require someone with deep pockets and a willingness to take a financial risk.
I don't understand what you all are worried about. Timblerline has stated they are opening November 30 with a $1,000,000 snowmaking upgrade, computrization of the entire business and they are currently doing lift maintenance, parking lot improvements, did you see the new pipes on Facebook and turning the power back on, which they say is a "process, not a switch to turn, as it involves negotiation and a number of checks and master electrician related details". Timberline is roaring back to life.
Where'd the $1,000,000 come from???
jimmy wrote:
I don't understand what you all are worried about. Timblerline has stated they are opening November 30 with a $1,000,000 snowmaking upgrade, computrization of the entire business and they are currently doing lift maintenance, parking lot improvements, did you see the new pipes on Facebook and turning the power back on, which they say is a "process, not a switch to turn, as it involves negotiation and a number of checks and master electrician related details". Timberline is roaring back to life.
I hear ya Jimmy. The jury is still out on Timberline although they are doing stuff at the base area which is a positive. I hope they do make it this and in ensuing years. My point goes back to some other factors. Brew Skies was a fantastic event but no more. The 24 Hours of Canaan ws another. There were concerts held regularly in the past too. Leaf Peepers has become real big and this past wekend had the valley packed with younger families hiking, biking, and just enjoying. But the valley is still losing its businesses. Sad.
You forgot the snowmobile races but i see where you are coming from.
This NY Times acticle that Norsk posted the link to barely mentions winter sports.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/09/travel/west-virginia-towns.html
I guess Facebook is where to read about what's going on at Timberline. Saw the Nov. 30 opening date mentioned a few times. Using Facebook as the primary marketing outlet has become pretty common for small to medium size resorts. Tenney in NH didn't bother with a website for quite a while before the lifts could be opened to the public in March 2018 as the infrastructure was fixed and made operational under new ownership.
From Facebook in Sept and Oct 2018:
What's your talent? Timberline is hiring full time permanent positions as well as seasonal contract staff. Here are a sampling of the available positions. We offer competitive industry wages and an opportunity for long-term growth and training. The premiere quality we look for in staff is an orientation toward solutions, focus on details and focus on guest experience.
Experienced bookkeeper or staff accountant to work with senior management; IT, experienced food and beverage manager; payroll clerk; office secretary; mountain operations staff; snowmakers; security; housekeeping; facilities maintainance; landscaping; guest experience staff. Apply in person.
Top industry wages for mechanics, maintainance, mountain ops and snowmaking. Requests for confidential queries will be respected. Talk to us.
Anyone know if Colonel Al Tompson is still COO & CFO for Timberline. The press release announcing his hiring is dated November 25, 2016. There is an article in the local paper from March 2017 but only available to subscribers. Tompson was defeated for a seat in the WV House for District 53 in November 2016, running as a Democrat. He served in the Korean War and has been retired for a while.
http://timberlineresort.com/pdfs/Press%20Release%20-%20Welcome%20Al%20Tomson%20-%20with%20photos.pdf
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/business/retired-army-colonel-finds-second-career-at-wv-ski-resort/article_08435bfc-6438-5b56-875e-d6679e8c3425.html
In Sept 2016, a post in Tompson's FB Page says he was "a member of the Davis Renaissance Group, an organization committed to the improvement and beautification of the Town of Davis, . . ." His FB Page looks like it was set up for his 2016 campaign.
Hey - can we get Trump to buy Timberline ? You know, put some money back into the coal belt. Reward Joe Manchin for that scotus vote. Can't you see it : TRUMP MOUNTAIN !! Gold plated lift chairs. High speed octets. Climate proof snowmaking. Gaurenteed powder every day. New championship golf course. Best mountain ever.
Dream until your dream comes true.
pagamony wrote:
Quote from Howard Sterns book...his Dad to him........ "DON'T BE STUPID YOU MORON!"... Wrong Mountain...MPC!$$$... Need to replace Manchin with a great for buisness Republican...need some fresh energy in there....time to relieve the pitcher....fire the coach...but yeh....Make Canaan Great Again!Hey - can we get Trump to buy Timberline ? You know, put some money back into the coal belt. Reward Joe Manchin for that scotus vote. Can't you see it : TRUMP MOUNTAIN !! Gold plated lift chairs. High speed octets. Climate proof snowmaking. Gaurenteed powder every day. New championship golf course. Best mountain ever.
Dream until your dream comes true.
More bad news about death in the Valley. It seems CVPSD is victim, yet again. They are currently owed $100,503.55 from their largest customer, Timberline Four Seasons Utility Inc. Unfortunately CVPSD is really hurting because of this. Per the most recent PSC documents from today, "CVPSD is now placed in economic peril by the mounting delinquencies of TFSUI in 4 payment of its monthly invoices received from CVPSD. customers which CVPSD serves. efficiently, and to serve its customers, CVPSD needs to receive payment of its monthly invoices in a timely manner. Without receipt of the invoiced funds from TFSUI, CVPSD is concerned about its own viability." Apparently TFSUI's customers are paying their bills, TFSUI just isn't using that money to pay CVPSD. This is something they've done in the not so distant past and claimed ignorance when the WV Public Service Commission got involved. Now they are actually requesting emergency privileges to take over operation of the utility at least through the next hearing in December.
Unfortunately this can only spell badness for the Valley this upcoming winter. Between this $100K debt (including possible criminal accusations brought up in the above PSC), the fact that the power is still off, phones aren't on (literally just tried 2 seconds ago), and lack of much activity at the resort itself, it is my hope that this doesn't make things even worse for the folks of Tucker County as well as all of those who make the Valley their second/winter home.
David wrote:
More bad news about death in the Valley. It seems CVPSD is victim, yet again. They are currently owed $100,503.55 from their largest customer, Timberline Four Seasons Utility Inc. Unfortunately CVPSD is really hurting because of this. Per the most recent PSC documents from today, "CVPSD is now placed in economic peril by the mounting delinquencies of TFSUI in 4 payment of its monthly invoices received from CVPSD. customers which CVPSD serves. efficiently, and to serve its customers, CVPSD needs to receive payment of its monthly invoices in a timely manner. Without receipt of the invoiced funds from TFSUI, CVPSD is concerned about its own viability." Apparently TFSUI's customers are paying their bills, TFSUI just isn't using that money to pay CVPSD. This is something they've done in the not so distant past and claimed ignorance when the WV Public Service Commission got involved. Now they are actually requesting emergency privileges to take over operation of the utility at least through the next hearing in December.
Unfortunately this can only spell badness for the Valley this upcoming winter. Between this $100K debt (including possible criminal accusations brought up in the above PSC), the fact that the power is still off, phones aren't on (literally just tried 2 seconds ago), and lack of much activity at the resort itself, it is my hope that this doesn't make things even worse for the folks of Tucker County as well as all of those who make the Valley their second/winter home.
You nailed it David. I'm a victim of the larceny being conducted. Have tried to file charges but the county prosecutor says he's referring all the the state police fraud division which is like watching paint peel. I attended the hearings back in 2016 when it was brought out the Timberline Four Seasons Utility transfered over $500k of what was the utility's money into other acounts related to the resort. This is all a matter of public record and is not stating anything that is not common knowledge. I hate being ripped off by purported good people. (snort!)
Why is the commission so reluctant to cut Timberline off and allow CVPSD to take over billing? That would be one step in the right direction.
Do you think this will affect Timberline opening for skiing on November 30?
johnfmh wrote:
Why is the commission so reluctant to cut Timberline off and allow CVPSD to take over billing? That would be one step in the right direction.
I've been told that that is a last ditch effort which is to put a utility in receivership. Generally, that only happens if customers of the utility lose service. That is not the case as yet. If there was a major leak, burst line, pump issue, etc... that could not be resolved in a timely manner they may consider it. Mismanagement of money evidently is not a crisis.
jimmy wrote:
Do you think this will affect Timberline opening for skiing on November 30?
It may. The cookie jar is empty.
kwillg6 wrote:
johnfmh wrote:
Why is the commission so reluctant to cut Timberline off and allow CVPSD to take over billing? That would be one step in the right direction.
I've been told that that is a last ditch effort which is to put a utility in receivership. Generally, that only happens if customers of the utility lose service. That is not the case as yet. If there was a major leak, burst line, pump issue, etc... that could not be resolved in a timely manner they may consider it. Mismanagement of money evidently is not a crisis.
Except for cashing our checks they have effectively abandoned the water service. Sounds like they will respond if you have sewerage coming up in your yard though? There are two meter boxes in my front yard that have been under standing water, snow or mud since October 2017. Two weeks ago i was poking around and could only find one of them. Pretty sure they have not read the meters for months.
jimmy wrote:
kwillg6 wrote:
johnfmh wrote:
Why is the commission so reluctant to cut Timberline off and allow CVPSD to take over billing? That would be one step in the right direction.
I've been told that that is a last ditch effort which is to put a utility in receivership. Generally, that only happens if customers of the utility lose service. That is not the case as yet. If there was a major leak, burst line, pump issue, etc... that could not be resolved in a timely manner they may consider it. Mismanagement of money evidently is not a crisis.
Except for cashing our checks they have effectively abandoned the water service. Sounds like they will respond if you have sewerage coming up in your yard though? There are two meter boxes in my front yard that have been under standing water, snow or mud since October 2017. Two weeks ago i was poking around and could only find one of them. Pretty sure they have not read the meters for months.
Hey, remember last May whern I had T-line sewage fertilizing my back yard I should have reported it and notified the Conversavancy about the spillage that went into their area. I was trying to be nice and work with t-line to fix it. I have been treated poorly ever since. It's time that the operators who haven chosen to take the wrong path be exposed and punished.
Why are the responsible folks not being criminally prosecuted for this fraud?
Let's leave any legal maneuverings to the actual courts and not the court of public opinion. DCSki isn't the right forum for this.
There is a rumor that Timberline found a new investor to keep the doors open this year. Does anyone know anything concrete about this?
Scott wrote:
Let's leave any legal maneuverings to the actual courts and not the court of public opinion. DCSki isn't the right forum for this.
Sorry Scott. We can only guess what will occur. Hopefully the will work their way through this and will open as scheduled and have a great season. One can only hope.
Scott wrote:
Let's leave any legal maneuverings to the actual courts and not the court of public opinion. DCSki isn't the right forum for this.
As Scott suggests, the Canaan Valley Public Service District and the West Virginia Public Service Commission are in the process of trying to move it through the legal system. The wheels of justice turn slowly.....be patient.
*****NEWS FLASH*****NEWS FLASH*****NEWS FLASH*****NEWS FLASH*****NEWS FLASH*****
Anonymous snowboarder wins Mega Millions! Pledges $10 million to Timberline 4 Seasons Resort.
This annual dance we do with rumors of new management, new funding, this time they're serious about turning the place around is a lot like Lucy Van Pelt holding the football for Charlie Brown.
marzNC wrote:
Anyone know if Colonel Al Tompson is still COO & CFO for Timberline. The press release announcing his hiring is dated November 25, 2016. There is an article in the local paper from March 2017 but only available to subscribers. Tompson was defeated for a seat in the WV House for District 53 in November 2016, running as a Democrat. He served in the Korean War and has been retired for a while.
http://timberlineresort.com/pdfs/Press%20Release%20-%20Welcome%20Al%20Tomson%20-%20with%20photos.pdf
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/business/retired-army-colonel-finds-second-career-at-wv-ski-resort/article_08435bfc-6438-5b56-875e-d6679e8c3425.html
In Sept 2016, a post in Tompson's FB Page says he was "a member of the Davis Renaissance Group, an organization committed to the improvement and beautification of the Town of Davis, . . ." His FB Page looks like it was set up for his 2016 campaign.
The years are blending together. He left I think end of last season or middle of last season. Or the season before? But, no longer around. Heard good things about him but “the patient was too long gone.”
CVR is hosting a Valley Renewal Roundtable for interested parties, Nov. 7, 2018 5:30PM at the Balsam Room.
RSVP by Nov. 4 by emailing Steve at drumhellers@canaanresort.com
Is there any additional information available on this event? I'll plan on being there myself, but I imagine this could be marketed to concerned citizens / local business owners.
Also, will there be an agenda? I worry that people's emotions which are running high on some valley topics could take over the discussion.
ChmxJoe74 wrote:
Is there any additional information available on this event? I'll plan on being there myself, but I imagine this could be marketed to concerned citizens / local business owners.
Also, will there be an agenda? I worry that people's emotions which are running high on some valley topics could take over the discussion.
From the limited information I saw, it's intended to be a brainstorming session for CV stakeholders... businesses, owners, etc.
For all interested, the roundtable excitementhas dwindled to a couple of dozen interested folks. CVR has seen an uptick in business from the closing of the other ski area in the valley but have had some growing pains in adjusting to the increased crowds. They have made notes and are working to correct the issues. A new restaurant will be opening in the place of Deerfield and it will be a BBQ place run by a local business person. Rumors has it around July 4th. Since CVPSD has receivership of T4SU, it's operating on an even keel. It may still take them another few months to straighten out the mess they inherited. The chapter 11 filings by the owner of the other ski area in the valley in a Pennsylvaina court may delay reseivership actions by the WV courts untill the filings are moved to WV. The legal mess is just that, a mess. Otherwise, everything is motoring on nicely. CVR opens Quenchers on weekends, and the golf is good.
For all interested, the roundtable excitementhas dwindled to a couple of dozen interested folks. CVR has seen an uptick in business from the closing of the other ski area in the valley but have had some growing pains in adjusting to the increased crowds. They have made notes and are working to correct the issues. A new restaurant will be opening in the place of Deerfield and it will be a BBQ place run by a local business person. Rumors has it around July 4th. Since CVPSD has receivership of T4SU, it's operating on an even keel. It may still take them another few months to straighten out the mess they inherited. The chapter 11 filings by the owner of the other ski area in the valley in a Pennsylvaina court may delay reseivership actions by the WV courts untill the filings are moved to WV. The legal mess is just that, a mess. Otherwise, everything is motoring on nicely. CVR opens Quenchers on weekends, and the golf is good.
kwillg6 wrote:
For all interested, the roundtable excitementhas dwindled to a couple of dozen interested folks. CVR has seen an uptick in business from the closing of the other ski area in the valley but have had some growing pains in adjusting to the increased crowds. They have made notes and are working to correct the issues. A new restaurant will be opening in the place of Deerfield and it will be a BBQ place run by a local business person. Rumors has it around July 4th. Since CVPSD has receivership of T4SU, it's operating on an even keel. It may still take them another few months to straighten out the mess they inherited. The chapter 11 filings by the owner of the other ski area in the valley in a Pennsylvaina court may delay reseivership actions by the WV courts untill the filings are moved to WV. The legal mess is just that, a mess. Otherwise, everything is motoring on nicely. CVR opens Quenchers on weekends, and the golf is good.
There is a new NICA (National Interscholastic Cycling Association) mountain bike trail course being professionally built at CVR also which will be more on the beginner side of riding skill level also.
This is the big one Tracy...I may be leaving you this time. Phred "Sanford" Herz
Methinks you may have that reversed. "What do you do when the money runs out..."
