itdoesntmatter wrote:

I remember lots of years when I would get a chance to ski before Christmas at Roundtop and Whitetail..  As much as I would like to, I don't think we can blame Vail Resorts on this.

 I don’t know what the staffing situation is but the other day I called all 3 resorts to try and get information about NYE events (which it seems like they aren’t doing anything other than tubing) the phone transferred to Colorado after ringing and all Colorado was able to do was just give me the same number I originally called. Facebook and instagram accounts no longer seem to be staffed for messaging, all and all communication isn’t what it used to be.

Meanwhile snowshoe was able to get many international employees back and is running all but western and flying eagle today. I was told they are actually close to normal staffing levels this year. 

If the forecast for next week holds I think they might try and open for Christmas Eve, but I guess time will tell. 

RodneyBD wrote:

If you call Vail and actually get someone live and complain that you bought a pass for hundreds of dollars and yet they won't make snow to open your local mountain their dead serious response will be "but you can drive to NY and VT and ski there!"

 Didn't Peak Resorts say the same thing?

JRunPatterson74 wrote:

Sometimes I wonder why VR bought the SnowTime mountains. They are barely viable now with a shorter and shorter season.

 Irv Naylor sold SnowTime Inc. to Peak Resorts, not VR.  I'm guessing he liked the idea of a "family business" more than VR.  But soon afterwards VR made an offer to the Boyd family that they couldn't refuse.  Whether or not VR was interested in Showtime before Naylor sold out is hard to know.  Presumably the DC/NoVA market was of great interest as part of the VR strategy to add locations in the midwest and northeast starting around 2012.

VR wanted Okemo, and probably Crested Butte too.  They had to take Sunapee as part of the deal to buy out the Mueller family.

Note that the first three midwest purchases by VR was of three independent, family-owned, ski areas/resorts.  Those were separate transactions and quite a bit of money was earmarked for lodge and lift improvements in the first 12-18 months of ownership.  The later acquisitions seemed to be ski areas/resorts where another company had already invested in upgrading lifts and/or adding snowmaking infrastructure.

Worth keeping in mind that with the exception of Laurel, the mid-Atlantic and northeast Epic locations are not just for winter use.  They are 4-season resorts.  Snowshoe, Massanutten, Wintergreen remain successful ski areas because of the revenue that comes in during the summer, even though the ski season is only 10-12 weeks long.  I can get a timeshare week at Mnut at short notice for a ski week, even for holiday periods.  For the summer, have to plan at least 9 months in advance, if not over a year.

This season was cursed with a warm start. Believe me. all ski areas want to be open at Christmas/New Year week. Low elevation and warmth meant a risky snowmaking gamble. Most resorts lost but really if it's warm and sunny or rainy in town on a late November day, would the average skier be thinking about skiing?

Guess which Vail Resort will have early-season skiing? Here's a hint, they're skiing now on modest terrain unless you're a park rat. In the future, they might be the only early option in the region for the Epic Pass holders. 

mdr227 wrote:

What has really amazed me the last few years has been how much longer a season Bryce manages to have compared to Whitetail, Timberline and Massanutten (and even Wintergreen this year).   They are certainly a low elevation resort and don't get much natural snow at all, but really do all they can to open early and stay open late.   They are already skiing on 5 out of 8 trails with really only one major trail not open yet.   Massanutten just opened with very limited terrain and Wintergreen still hasn't opened, though they are close to their beginner slopes and Eagles Swoop opening.   WT and Liberty still still far away and don't look to have run the guns the last couple of cold nights (if they did not much snow was made).    I still hold out hope that even with a very delayed opening it can be a good season at Whitetail and Liberty as last year was a slow starting season and there were some really good days to ski at WT in early March.     I know Timberline and Wintergreen are good options to go to, but the extra 2-3 hours of driving time round trip makes it a much longer day for a day trip.   WT is great as I can leave home at 7:30 and be on the slopes by 9, ski straight for 3-4 hours and be home by mid-afternoon, can't do that as easily at Wisp, TL or Wintergreen.

 What I learned from folks who have worked at Massanutten for decades and actually started out at Bryce is that the micro-climate at Bryce makes a big difference for snowmaking.  I know Mnut ends up with far more times when a temperature inversion means no snowmaking while Bryce has guns on most of the night.

The snowmaking situation at Massanutten has changed significantly in the past few years.  Building a 2-mile long pipeline along the road means they have virtually unlimited water for snowmaking.  Last summer new pumps were installed.  That will make the terrain expansion possible.  Before it wasn't possible to run the snow guns on Diamond Jim and Paradise at the same time.

Wintergreen used to have the advantage over Mnut after the 5 million gallon water tank was added.  But now they can run out of water for snowmaking if the lake is relatively low.  That is also the water supply for the potable water for all the condos at Wintergreen, so it can only be drawn down so far.  That means if the snowmaking window is 72 hours, Wintergreen may not be able to keep up snowmaking for the entire period.

In NC, Cataloochee is the farthest south but usually has one of the longest seasons.  Excellent snowmaking, a spot where it's cold combined with small acreage is what makes a difference.  Bryce is similar for VA.  Bryce has 25 acres to cover, as compared to 75 acres for Massanutten.  Wintergreen has 129 acres.

A minor point, but Hidden Valley (soon to be Epic/Vail Resorts) has not been a true 4-season resort for several years. Yes, a golf course, but no resort lodging - the Inn at Hidden Valley has been essentially abandoned, certainly since covid. Additionally, what makes HV's future prospects even more precarious is that VR did not purchase the golf course (same as 7S). This was positioned as Nutting wanting to maintain those "assets", but more likely VR did its due diligence and realized both were money losers. To respond to a question that Scott had when the Vail purchase of 7S, HV and LM was initially announced, I see Vail investing a bit in 7S. As for HV, best case scenario will be maintaining the status quo; worst case, folding up the tent and funneling folks to 7S. Ditto Laurel. Never a good thing when the accountants at "corporate" are making the decisions.

marzNC wrote:

JRunPatterson74 wrote:

Sometimes I wonder why VR bought the SnowTime mountains. They are barely viable now with a shorter and shorter season.

 Irv Naylor sold SnowTime Inc. to Peak Resorts, not VR.  I'm guessing he liked the idea of a "family business" more than VR.  But soon afterwards VR made an offer to the Boyd family that they couldn't refuse.  Whether or not VR was interested in Showtime before Naylor sold out is hard to know.  Presumably the DC/NoVA market was of great interest as part of the VR strategy to add locations in the midwest and northeast starting around 2012.

VR wanted Okemo, and probably Crested Butte too.  They had to take Sunapee as part of the deal to buy out the Mueller family.

Note that the first three midwest purchases by VR was of three independent, family-owned, ski areas/resorts.  Those were separate transactions and quite a bit of money was earmarked for lodge and lift improvements in the first 12-18 months of ownership.  The later acquisitions seemed to be ski areas/resorts where another company had already invested in upgrading lifts and/or adding snowmaking infrastructure.

Worth keeping in mind that with the exception of Laurel, the mid-Atlantic and northeast Epic locations are not just for winter use.  They are 4-season resorts.  Snowshoe, Massanutten, Wintergreen remain successful ski areas because of the revenue that comes in during the summer, even though the ski season is only 10-12 weeks long.  I can get a timeshare week at Mnut at short notice for a ski week, even for holiday periods.  For the summer, have to plan at least 9 months in advance, if not over a year.

marzNC wrote:

JRunPatterson74 wrote:

Sometimes I wonder why VR bought the SnowTime mountains. They are barely viable now with a shorter and shorter season.

 Irv Naylor sold SnowTime Inc. to Peak Resorts, not VR.  I'm guessing he liked the idea of a "family business" more than VR.  But soon afterwards VR made an offer to the Boyd family that they couldn't refuse.  Whether or not VR was interested in Showtime before Naylor sold out is hard to know.  Presumably the DC/NoVA market was of great interest as part of the VR strategy to add locations in the midwest and northeast starting around 2012.

VR wanted Okemo, and probably Crested Butte too.  They had to take Sunapee as part of the deal to buy out the Mueller family.

Note that the first three midwest purchases by VR was of three independent, family-owned, ski areas/resorts.  Those were separate transactions and quite a bit of money was earmarked for lodge and lift improvements in the first 12-18 months of ownership.  The later acquisitions seemed to be ski areas/resorts where another company had already invested in upgrading lifts and/or adding snowmaking infrastructure.

Worth keeping in mind that with the exception of Laurel, the mid-Atlantic and northeast Epic locations are not just for winter use.  They are 4-season resorts.  Snowshoe, Massanutten, Wintergreen remain successful ski areas because of the revenue that comes in during the summer, even though the ski season is only 10-12 weeks long.  I can get a timeshare week at Mnut at short notice for a ski week, even for holiday periods.  For the summer, have to plan at least 9 months in advance, if not over a year.

 I forgot that Peak Resorts owned Whitetail/Liberty/Roundtop. In my limited travels to Wintergreen, I can see why the summer would be a big money maker with the lake, access to all that hiking, and the more bearable temps due to the elevation.  Now the route to access it from the west, that would make a good ski trail with snow!

Whitetail is blasting snow again.  I can see them opening at least one intermediate trail before this weekend.  And then closing and re-opening next Friday.   

snowyslope92 wrote:

Whitetail is blasting snow again.  I can see them opening at least one intermediate trail before this weekend.  And then closing and re-opening next Friday.   

That seems a bit optimistic, I really wish I could see what roundtop looked like, I really feel like they should have had a large enough snowmaking window. 

wgo wrote:

Are the slopes at Bryce north facing? I can imagine that plus the small acreage would help. Interesting point about Bryce being in a colder micro-climate.

 Yes.

What I've come to appreciate about Mnut is that being in the "kettle" and north facing means that most of the trails are in the shade after about noon.  Only Geronimo and parts of Showtime are subject to a lot of sun.  Very different from a ski area where all the trails are coming down along a a ridge.

 JRunPatterson74, my best guess is VR wanted local market share near the DC/Baltimore Metro area.  For VR these days, it is all about the Epic Pass and DC/Baltimore area is a very affluent market.   By having the nearest resorts to DC/Baltimore they know people will flock to the Epic Pass.  The long range goal for them is to have 75% of their guests on Epic Pass and it is certainly moving in that direction.

JRunPatterson74 wrote:

Sometimes I wonder why VR bought the SnowTime mountains. They are barely viable now with a shorter and shorter season.

 Yes it's about selling Epic Pass and lock in the revenue no matter how the season looks like - warm weather, Covid etc.

I can attest to that. I have Epic Pass for the last couple years and the only reason was because it included Snowtime resorts. However, I came to realize that I rarely skied Snowtime resorts the last couple years. Instead, I went to Bryce. Yes it's smaller but always had "much" better snow condition and "much" less people. I can practice and have a good time on the snow at Bryce more so than Whitetail. Buying the pass was really for trips to the West.

So next year, I am switching back to Ikon. At least it includes Snowshoe.

BaySailor wrote:

 JRunPatterson74, my best guess is VR wanted local market share near the DC/Baltimore Metro area.  For VR these days, it is all about the Epic Pass and DC/Baltimore area is a very affluent market.   By having the nearest resorts to DC/Baltimore they know people will flock to the Epic Pass.  The long range goal for them is to have 75% of their guests on Epic Pass and it is certainly moving in that direction.

JRunPatterson74 wrote:

Sometimes I wonder why VR bought the SnowTime mountains. They are barely viable now with a shorter and shorter season.

rbrtlav wrote:

That seems a bit optimistic, I really wish I could see what roundtop looked like, I really feel like they should have had a large enough snowmaking window. 

Liberty's cams other than the base area live cam are gone from their website - and the live cam is not rendering on any of my computers, tablets, or smartphones.

I'm really saddened that VR didn't start up their snowmaking ops earlier to simply lay down a cold carpet on the ground. As such, it seems they waited and now they're blowing onto ground that isn't frozen. With the cameras offline it's nigh-on-impossible to see how long they're keeping the guns on.

Whitetail's cams show the lifts in motion and some snowmaking ops happening but nothing of the scale that speaks to opening this weekend. My guess is they'll be aiming for New Year's weekend once things cool off again late next week. It's definitely cold enough to blow, but... well, I'm not the Mountain Ops management...

It's a rough start, for sure. We've seen similar in recent years but it's more frequent than not these days.

squeakywheels wrote:

 Yes it's about selling Epic Pass and lock in the revenue no matter how the season looks like - warm weather, Covid etc.

I can attest to that. I have Epic Pass for the last couple years and the only reason was because it included Snowtime resorts. However, I came to realize that I rarely skied Snowtime resorts the last couple years. Instead, I went to Bryce. Yes it's smaller but always had "much" better snow condition and "much" less people. I can practice and have a good time on the snow at Bryce more so than Whitetail. Buying the pass was really for trips to the West.

So next year, I am switching back to Ikon. At least it includes Snowshoe.

The Epic pass used to go off sale some time in November.  So even in the Rockies the idea was that a commitment had to be made long before it was possible to tell when the season would actually start.  The deadline moved to a later date after Ikon started up.

I am not seeing any snow making temperature next week for Snowtime resorts. They will be lucky if they can open the weekend of 1/8. Maybe Roundtop can squeeze out something to open this weekend. But if they don't open this weekend, there is no chance for New Year's Day weekend.

songfta wrote:

Whitetail's cams show the lifts in motion and some snowmaking ops happening but nothing of the scale that speaks to opening this weekend. My guess is they'll be aiming for New Year's weekend once things cool off again late next week. It's definitely cold enough to blow, but... well, I'm not the Mountain Ops management...

It's a rough start, for sure. We've seen similar in recent years but it's more frequent than not these days.

The snowmaking looks so intense on the Angeldrop webcam at Whitetail, that I would be surprised if they did not open this weekend with limited terrain (no additional snowmaking window next week based on current forecast so they might as well open if they get enough of a base from the current activity).  I thought I saw actual whales at the bottom of Angeldrop this morning  

Outdoor Sport -  learn weather. we have had a late open a few times in 25 years. 

Whitetail says Open Dec 27 , I only see One trail looking ok.  The window to make snow is on Sunday night Marginal at 27-degree wet bulb.  I looked 5 days out.   50% Rain on Monday, Tuesday.  

Every year I can get in 25 visits last year 2 visits due to surgical rehab. 

this course 10 hours is free paid by taxpayers. NOAA sponsored. Worth your time if you are outdoors with Sports.

https://www.meted.ucar.edu/education_training/course/6  

ZARDOG 

wgo wrote:

Are the slopes at Bryce north facing? I can imagine that plus the small acreage would help. Interesting point about Bryce being in a colder micro-climate.

 Yes, they are. Stared into the sun on every lift ride Thursday, and the runs never really softened up. 

mdr227 wrote:

It is quite depressing looking at the various web cams of the closer in ski resorts this morning.   Whitetail is opening tomorrow, but barely any snow on Angel Drop while other places like Massanutten and Wintergreen that are open, but with very limited terrain that is barely skiable and likely will struggle through the end of the week to keep it going.   Luckily there finally looks to be some colder weather coming in for next weekend so hopefully the local places can start to open more terrain by the end of next week.

 Yep, Mother Nature is the most critical and uncontrollable factor when it comes to early season snowmaking.

Having paid attention to Mnut for years, they will probably be able to stay open all week.  Being in the Kettle the core trails that are open get relatively little sun.  Once the base is deep, it can hold through a warm spell.  The question will be how hard it rains midweek.  Can't see DJ from the Mnut webcams.  It probably has a 2-foot base.  As long as snow tubing is open, the slopes will be fun for those who are around for the holiday week.  If snow tubing has to close, that's a different story.

 I am beginning to think that Vail purposely didn't fix the broken webcams at Liberty and Roundtop so people wouldn't see the depressing images of bare Earth. Liberty actually had a couple old cams working a month ago for the front and back slopes but now has nothing but a broken cam for the courtyard.

mdr227 wrote:

Checked the WT website this morning and only trails open are Angel Drop (with incredibly thin coverage both horizontally and with depth) and the bunny hills yet they are charging $84 for a lift ticket!    That is incredible they would charge that much with pretty much one top to bottom trail open and only about 1/2th of its normal width.     

mdr227 wrote:

Checked the WT website this morning and only trails open are Angel Drop (with incredibly thin coverage both horizontally and with depth) and the bunny hills yet they are charging $84 for a lift ticket!    That is incredible they would charge that much with pretty much one top to bottom trail open and only about 1/2th of its normal width.     

 Yeah, I imagine the majority of people stopping by today are Epic passholders.

I was planning to go to ski at Whitetail today, but couldn't find any status beyond a Dec 24th Facebook post on what trails they hoped to open.  So I set out for Roundtop and couldn't get Whitetail's status on the Epic app until I was in Frederick MD headed north.  Party fowl in my book on Whitetail's part to not have status up by 7AM.

I was planning for a rainy opening day (and hoping it would keep the crowds away) and ended up getting several inches of snow between 9:30 and noon.  After that there was a thick fog at the top and misting that kept everything colder than I expected for a 34 degree day.  Overall conditions were great and the crowds weren't too bad.  Nothing was icy and it was only hard pack on the one black run that opened up a little while after rope drop.  It was snowing/foggy enough that they were running the lights all day.

One odd thing I felt awkward about.  On the main lift, there were five lanes open, but everyone was crowding into the first three.  The last two lanes didn't say ski school or staff only or anything.  The first three lines in addition to being long had to zipper several times whereas the last two lanes just merged into the line right before the lift.  We were running lap after lap with almost no wait and can only figure the main lines must have been inviting to those who wanted to rest or just didn't know what was going on.  Was I missing something?

I skied whitetail for about 90 minutes this afternoon. Angel drop had some very rough sections, and with sidewinder not being opened there was a lot of people that were over their head on angel drop.

It looked like sidewinder needed one more night of snowmaking, so I wonder if they will use snow from sidewinder to keep angel drop open until the cold weather or if they will end up closing.

On the bright side, I needed to get a reprint of some passes and there was no line and I was also able to get the green sticker on my pass for indoor dining with no wait.

rbrtlav wrote:

...I was also able to get the green sticker on my pass for indoor dining with no wait.

Tell us more about this green sticker

camp wrote:

rbrtlav wrote:

...I was also able to get the green sticker on my pass for indoor dining with no wait.

Tell us more about this green sticker

 

 A simple convenience thing. At least for the cafeteria side of the lodge you need a vaccine card. They are marking passes so you don’t need to pull out your phone or CDC card every time you go in. At whitetail at least there is a wall now between the cafeteria area and the restrooms so there is no check to walk in and use the restroom.

rbrtlav wrote:

camp wrote:

rbrtlav wrote:

...I was also able to get the green sticker on my pass for indoor dining with no wait.

Tell us more about this green sticker

 

 A simple convenience thing. At least for the cafeteria side of the lodge you need a vaccine card. They are marking passes so you don’t need to pull out your phone or CDC card every time you go in. At whitetail at least there is a wall now between the cafeteria area and the restrooms so there is no check to walk in and use the restroom.

 Any idea if the green sticker idea is being used at Liberty and Roundtop too?

marzNC wrote:

rbrtlav wrote:

camp wrote:

rbrtlav wrote:

...I was also able to get the green sticker on my pass for indoor dining with no wait.

Tell us more about this green sticker

 

 A simple convenience thing. At least for the cafeteria side of the lodge you need a vaccine card. They are marking passes so you don’t need to pull out your phone or CDC card every time you go in. At whitetail at least there is a wall now between the cafeteria area and the restrooms so there is no check to walk in and use the restroom.

 Any idea if the green sticker idea is being used at Liberty and Roundtop too?

 They kinda gave me the impression it is good at all vail resorts. I’m planning on checking out roundtop tomorrow if they stay open so I’ll see.

This is easily the worst I've ever seen an open trail look at any of the local ski resorts over all the years they've had webcams.   This is at 3:45 PM today at Whitetail.   Can't believe they think that is an acceptable condition for a ski trail to be open.  

Whitetail is closing Angel Drop after today and will only have bunny slopes open.

mdr227 wrote:

This is easily the worst I've ever seen an open trail look at any of the local ski resorts over all the years they've had webcams.   This is at 3:45 PM today at Whitetail.   Can't believe they think that is an acceptable condition for a ski trail to be open.  

 I was going to post the same.  I watch the webcam every day.  Most days in previous years, I've thought "Wow, that would surely be nicer than sitting here at home!".  But this year... I'm not so sure.  The webcam isn't making me jealous at all.  It is making me kindda sad.

I've got a 4-day Epic pass.  Looks like my 2021-2022 ski year will be four days in February.  Maybe.  I hope.

JRunPatterson74 wrote:

That trail should not be open. Simple. As. That.  But as long as money is made, who cares?

Was curious and went to check out the webcams to see if there had been any improvement in conditions at Whitetail.  I had to laugh when I saw something moving on the lower angel drop cam and then realized it was a few deer enjoying the grass.

“A simple convenience thing. At least for the cafeteria side of the lodge you need a vaccine card.”

I was already boycotting SL/RT/WT for other reasons, but this nonsense is another reason to give them the middle finger.

Patf1engineer wrote:

Looks like all 3 are closed until further notice after today

JimK wrote:

Camp, is that a screen grab or were you actually there to experience that?

 I went to Roundtop this morning. It was less horrible than that pic

Looks like Timberline and 7 Springs down to 7 trails, Hidden Valley and Canaan have five between them open all pretty much bunny hills, WT, Liberty, Massanutten, Wisp, Wintergreen, Roundtop, Laurel Mountain, etc. all closed with Snowshoe having 29 trails open (but losing width/depth quickly) and Bryce hasn't updated in a couple of days, but web cam shows some snow still, but not lifts running yet.   

Most places are going to be back to square one when making snow hopefully starting tomorrow night.  

Bryce is definitely spinning lifts today, probably with 5 trails (including 3 top to bottom). Huge turnout yesterday, both the day session and New Year Eve party. Great coverage with just a few thin spots yesterday.

mdr227 wrote:

Looks like Timberline and 7 Springs down to 7 trails, Hidden Valley and Canaan have five between them open all pretty much bunny hills, WT, Liberty, Massanutten, Wisp, Wintergreen, Roundtop, Laurel Mountain, etc. all closed with Snowshoe having 29 trails open (but losing width/depth quickly) and Bryce hasn't updated in a couple of days, but web cam shows some snow still, but not lifts running yet.   

Most places are going to be back to square one when making snow hopefully starting tomorrow night.  

MitchSH wrote:

Does Bryce have colder weather or a better north facing aspect than the local Epic resorts, or did the Epic resorts simply fail to take advantage of some of the late November/early December snowmaking opportunities they had?  

Marznc has knowledge from staff at Bryce that it is indeed in a colder spot than Massanut and able to make snow more often. And a better aspect than WT, but not much different than Liberty or Roundtop. I'm sure there's another reason the local epics didn't take advantage. 

mdr227 wrote:

Looks like Timberline and 7 Springs down to 7 trails, Hidden Valley and Canaan have five between them open all pretty much bunny hills, WT, Liberty, Massanutten, Wisp, Wintergreen, Roundtop, Laurel Mountain, etc. all closed with Snowshoe having 29 trails open (but losing width/depth quickly) and Bryce hasn't updated in a couple of days, but web cam shows some snow still, but not lifts running yet.   

Most places are going to be back to square one when making snow hopefully starting tomorrow night.  

 Hidden Valley just posted they are closed until at least Wednesday 

At least I got 21 miles on my bike yesterday 

Bryce has a good supply of water, a good snowmaking system to cover 100% of their compact terrain layout, and a long track record of managerial willpower to use it aggressively whenever an early season window of cold temps occurs. 

MitchSH wrote:

Does Bryce have colder weather or a better north facing aspect than the local Epic resorts, or did the Epic resorts simply fail to take advantage of some of the late November/early December snowmaking opportunities they had?  

I hope that when Seven Springs becomes part of Epic next year, they make snow aggressively like Snowshoe and Timberline.  Seven springs will be a good backup hill for DC skiers during warmer spells (and there are plenty of cheap lodging options in Somerset). 

On the other hand the snowmaking at Hunter, which is also a Vail resort, was very good because they had plenty of terrain with mostly deep bases this past week. 

Whitetail finally posted open trails for today with just four beginner trails open (the three bunny hills and Sidewinder) with Angel Drop still being closed.   It looked like they weren't running the guns as much as they could on Angel Drop during this cold stretch for some reason and were starting to make snow on other trails that hadn't had any before now which is different from their normal plan of getting one intermediate trail opened as soon as possible before really starting on other runs like Snowpark.    Hopefully it will be a full day of snowmaking today for them to get more open for the weekend.  

On the Liberty weather page it says they will be closed today, but on the main page says they will be open with no update on their trail and lift status page.   People need to make a decision on where to ski early in the day if they want to get there by 9 AM or shortly thereafter, can't believe they can't quickly update their snow report before 7:30 AM especially when they could draw a big crowd today which they desperately need.

The lack of any sort of useful information on their websites is quite frustrating.  There isn't even a note about how much snow fell last night!  Your best bet for current conditions/trail openings is to use the EpicMix app.  Whitetail and Roundtop also appear to be posting updates on social media.  I am not sure if anyone is awake at the wheel at Liberty.  

mdr227 wrote:

Whitetail finally posted open trails for today with just four beginner trails open (the three bunny hills and Sidewinder) with Angel Drop still being closed.   It looked like they weren't running the guns as much as they could on Angel Drop during this cold stretch for some reason and were starting to make snow on other trails that hadn't had any before now which is different from their normal plan of getting one intermediate trail opened as soon as possible before really starting on other runs like Snowpark.    Hopefully it will be a full day of snowmaking today for them to get more open for the weekend.  

On the Liberty weather page it says they will be closed today, but on the main page says they will be open with no update on their trail and lift status page.   People need to make a decision on where to ski early in the day if they want to get there by 9 AM or shortly thereafter, can't believe they can't quickly update their snow report before 7:30 AM especially when they could draw a big crowd today which they desperately need.

jn_freedman wrote:

Kind of related, did WT stop doing whitetrailers this year?  I was there yesterday and didn't see any evidence it was happening.

Whitetrailers and Nitetrailers got pushed back a week.

And, to SKI-PSU's point, I'm wondering why also.

Scott wrote:

I can see why Whitetail didn't make snow last night -- it was raining yesterday night and only dipped below freezing early this morning.  But if the snowguns don't go on sometime today/this evening I'll have questions.  :)  The guns appear to be running at Liberty and Roundtop.

Looking at NWS data, it looks like Hagerstown dropped below freezing @ around midnight with a low dewpoint. I honestly don't know what the bottle neck could be but its nonsensical that they are not blasting at full speed right now. 

SKI-PSU wrote:

Scott wrote:

I can see why Whitetail didn't make snow last night -- it was raining yesterday night and only dipped below freezing early this morning.  But if the snowguns don't go on sometime today/this evening I'll have questions.  :)  The guns appear to be running at Liberty and Roundtop.

Looking at NWS data, it looks like Hagerstown dropped below freezing @ around midnight with a low dewpoint. I honestly don't know what the bottle neck could be but its nonsensical that they are not blasting at full speed right now. 

Open snow allows you to look at resorts by pass. If you compare epic to Ikon there is a clear difference throughout the country. Even keystone is barely half open when copper and winter park are almost 90%. Vail also has multiple resorts that aren’t opening on week days at this point.

I’ve skied at both liberty and whitetail and the staff at the resorts have been great both places, but seems like there might be something at a higher level given the nationwide difficulties vail seems to be having.

 Hey Scott....maybe that is the reason....if the guns are running at Liberty and Roundtop, maybe all the snowmaking crew is at those resorts. I'm not sure if it is true or not, but I heard at least some employees were having to work between the different resorts (Whitetail, Liberty and Roundtop).  

Scott wrote:

I can see why Whitetail didn't make snow last night -- it was raining yesterday night and only dipped below freezing early this morning.  But if the snowguns don't go on sometime today/this evening I'll have questions.  :)  The guns appear to be running at Liberty and Roundtop.

I've heard the same from multiple sources.

BaySailor wrote:

 Hey Scott....maybe that is the reason....if the guns are running at Liberty and Roundtop, maybe all the snowmaking crew is at those resorts. I'm not sure if it is true or not, but I heard at least some employees were having to work between the different resorts (Whitetail, Liberty and Roundtop).  

 Fanciful opened this morning.  Bold Decision has large snow whales from top to bottom and can be opened any day now.  Will they wait to next weekend to open Bold Decision?  They have been making snow on home run and far side all day yesterday and today.  They should have everything open except limelight next weekend.

Scott wrote:

The guns have all been running at Liberty, Roundtop, and Whitetail the past several days.  Keep in mind most of the systems are automated now -- the TechnoAlpin guns can be controlled remotely by a computer.  I confirmed from an official source that there was a temporary technical glitch that delayed snowmaking a few days ago, but everything is in good shape now.  Whitetail has made a ton of snow the past several days and I wouldn't be surprised to see them close to 100% open within the next several days.  Liberty and Roundtop are both 86% open as of January 15.

Planning to head to Liberty tomorrow (Wednesday, the 19th), and I'm happy to see on their trail status that they have 100% of trails open and groomed.

I wish they had more webcams running, but we can't have it all I guess.