No snow boards at Alta and Deer Valley still.... this was cute in the 90's but why does it still exist?
I get that Alta is basically a place for grumpy old men who hate change and Deer Valley is all about who you are wearing vice what you are skiing....
Calm down Karen, of course I am kidding!!
Too many boarders scraping off the powder is all I can think of, or they have too many flat sections requiring skiers to skate.
As someone who instructed both and therefore partook in both quite a bit in the 90's (still do and love both but no longer instruct), I will say the policy was never cute. And I would never go somewhere that has such a policy.
Also deer valley is untouched longer because it costs so much to ski there. And it definitely attracts wealthy vacationers who are more worried about being seen than skiing. So it makes sense that the harder terrain would be less busy.
I don't necessarily begrudge their right to make their own policies. And hopefully they don't begrudge my right to disagree and not patronize their resorts.
oldensign wrote:
No snow boards at Alta and Deer Valley still.... this was cute in the 90's but why does it still exist?
I get that Alta is basically a place for grumpy old men who hate change and Deer Valley is all about who you are wearing vice what you are skiing....
Calm down Karen, of course I am kidding!!
Too many boarders scraping off the powder is all I can think of, or they have too many flat sections requiring skiers to skate.
Have you skied either Alta or Deer Valley? There is also Mad River Glen for skiers only.
Been interesting to see what terrain the few snowboarders ride at Taos now that they can. Mostly see riders on the weekends and few are in the bumps and trees that Taos is known for.
I was just curious so I looked it up. Aspen mountain began allowing snowboarders April 1, 2001... probably closing day.
I thought they were probably one of the holdouts and this sounds like indeed they were.
Boarders at Alta would be interesting, with the number of long and difficult traverses to get to common terrain. High Traverse, aka High T has incredible wash boards, and right before Piss Pass, you have a one foot wide extended traverse cutting across a steep slope. It is generally icy and rocky, and often slopes downhill. Below you is a steep slide across steep rocks. It can be a bit scary on skis, given the aspect and how crowded it can get with skiers of different abilities.
You need to take this to hit all of the main runs in the center of the mountain facing the access road and many of the mellower powder pitches on the backside. It is a high traffic traverse, given the large percentage of terrain it accesses.
Lots of Billy Goating needed at Alta. Would be a lot more difficult for a boarder to access this stuff safely for themselves and others.
I don't really have anything personal against snow boarders but I think that snow boarders, in general create, safety problems:
- many are entoombed in headphones and cannot hear when someone is skiing near them. I don't think wearing headphones and listening to music is a good idea when skiing/boarding since you cannot hear if someone is coming behind you.
- they have trouble seeing to one side, left or right, depending on their position.
- they often stop and sit in groups in the middle of the slope
- I hate getting of a full chair with a snowboarder since they take up more space than a skier
- Each time they do a trip down they need to unbind and then rebind at the top stopping in the unloading area to accomplish the rebinding exercise.
- they don't call you guys 'scrapers' for no reason. These tend to be inexperienced boarders who edge all the way down a steep area, scraping off the snow surface.
- I hate to generalize, but snowboarders are typically younger and I've seen them smoking weed and drinking while boarding. Maybe I'm a nerd, but I don't like being intoxicated when skiing.
Sorry boarders. Maybe some of these concerns are stereotypes, but some are very real.
Reisen wrote:
We ski a lot at Alta and Deer Valley, we spent 9 days between the two across 2 trips in late December and late January. I keep meaning to do a TR with pictures, but both trips were full on epic conditions.We never bothered crossing over into Snowbird from Alta this trip, nor last year. Why deal with crowds when Alta has great terrain with minimal lift lines? Alta also has very reasonably priced ski school for our 3 kids. Finally, the lack of lodging really helps make it an enthusiast mountain rather than a destination resort. My kids like that most skiers above Sunnyside at Alta tend to be quite good. I do agree it gets tracked out fast, though.I’m a fan of the no snowboarder thing. There are plenty of kids, teens, and 20 something skiers at Alta, I don’t think it skews older at all. The big benefit is less crowds, and as mentioned earlier, the snow quality also benefits from not getting scraped off. Last benefit is not having to dodge people sitting on runs.I have nothing against Snowboarders, and an old friend is a famous one. We don’t exclusively ski Alta and DV, but they are often one of our first choices. Next month will be Aspen. But all things considered, not having them on the mountain definitely enhances the experience for us.
Spoiler alert! Start eye rolling and yawning now.
I started a new job at a DC Think Tank and the content generators, researchers and editors are amazing experts. Alex Ward who writes the National Security Daily had an analogy for the success of his newsletter. He uses the "Ragu" strategy. Ragu noticed that about 70% of buyers purchased the marinara. They then came up with 4 cheeses, etc. HIs strategy is not to cover everyone, unlike Ragu. He carefully targets his audience.
Maybe DV and Alta are doing the same. Know your target market and stick with it. Cold hard numbers in the past years reveal skiers outnumber snowboarders by almost 2x (14 million skiers vs. 7 million snowboarders). Maybe the exclusivity is a bonus in a world of choices. Perhaps grabbing skiers that would go to other resorts more than compensates for not have snowboarders, who are so ubiquitous at other places. It's like my Delta Skymiles Silver status plus TSA Precheck plus CLEAR - I love it! I walk past all the shlubs in line waiting in security and board and say ciao !
oldensign wrote:
No snow boards at Alta and Deer Valley still.... this was cute in the 90's but why does it still exist?
I get that Alta is basically a place for grumpy old men who hate change and Deer Valley is all about who you are wearing vice what you are skiing....
Calm down Karen, of course I am kidding!!
Too many boarders scraping off the powder is all I can think of, or they have too many flat sections requiring skiers to skate.
whatever floats your sailboat...just keep it on the chill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdhOdV4Ozn0&t=17s
Crush wrote:
Spoiler alert! Start eye rolling and yawning now.
I started a new job at a DC Think Tank and the content generators, researchers and editors are amazing experts. Alex Ward who writes the National Security Daily had an analogy for the success of his newsletter. He uses the "Ragu" strategy. Ragu noticed that about 70% of buyers purchased the marinara. They then came up with 4 cheeses, etc. HIs strategy is not to cover everyone, unlike Ragu. He carefully targets his audience.
Maybe DV and Alta are doing the same. Know your target market and stick with it. Cold hard numbers in the past years reveal skiers outnumber snowboarders by almost 2x (14 million skiers vs. 7 million snowboarders). Maybe the exclusivity is a bonus in a world of choices. Perhaps grabbing skiers that would go to other resorts more than compensates for not have snowboarders, who are so ubiquitous at other places. It's like my Delta Skymiles Silver status plus TSA Precheck plus CLEAR - I love it! I walk past all the shlubs in line waiting in security and board and say ciao !
Yep, target market makes a difference.
The greatest fear that DV season pass holders had when Alterra bought the resort was that the skiers-only policy would change. There used to be a blog with public comments back then.
Alta Lift Co. makes money. Snowbird is next door. Some people prefer Snowbird terrain. I happen to prefer Alta terrain. Not having to ski around boarders at the top of lifts is a plus. Really not much extra space at the top of Collins or Sugarloaf. My friends who are intermediates who ski in the east find a skiers-only mountain with natural snow refreshing.
When Taos opened up to snowboarders in 2008, it was losing market share at an alarming rate. Many of the snowboarders at Taos these days on the weekends make the drive from Texas. I assume when Taos is overrun during the Texas spring breaks in March, plenty of families includes boarders. At the same time, the multi-day lesson program called Taos Ski Week is for skiers only. Those are the people who are around all week, stay in lodging on the mountain, and often spend money eating at the resort midweek.
Mad River G is famous for being shitty. Thin cover. Icy. Narrow. Charming in annold New England way but not something good. It's on park land so snowboarders can ride down but not up
Oh my God you saw snowboarders smoking weed? Did you call 911?
snowsmith wrote:
I don't really have anything personal against snow boarders but I think that snow boarders, in general create, safety problems:
- many are entoombed in headphones and cannot hear when someone is skiing near them. I don't think wearing headphones and listening to music is a good idea when skiing/boarding since you cannot hear if someone is coming behind you.
- they have trouble seeing to one side, left or right, depending on their position.
- they often stop and sit in groups in the middle of the slope
- I hate getting of a full chair with a snowboarder since they take up more space than a skier
- Each time they do a trip down they need to unbind and then rebind at the top stopping in the unloading area to accomplish the rebinding exercise.
- they don't call you guys 'scrapers' for no reason. These tend to be inexperienced boarders who edge all the way down a steep area, scraping off the snow surface.
- I hate to generalize, but snowboarders are typically younger and I've seen them smoking weed and drinking while boarding. Maybe I'm a nerd, but I don't like being intoxicated when skiing.
Sorry boarders. Maybe some of these concerns are stereotypes, but some are very real.
Reisen wrote:
We ski a lot at Alta and Deer Valley, we spent 9 days between the two across 2 trips in late December and late January. I keep meaning to do a TR with pictures, but both trips were full on epic conditions.We never bothered crossing over into Snowbird from Alta this trip, nor last year. Why deal with crowds when Alta has great terrain with minimal lift lines? Alta also has very reasonably priced ski school for our 3 kids. Finally, the lack of lodging really helps make it an enthusiast mountain rather than a destination resort. My kids like that most skiers above Sunnyside at Alta tend to be quite good. I do agree it gets tracked out fast, though.I’m a fan of the no snowboarder thing. There are plenty of kids, teens, and 20 something skiers at Alta, I don’t think it skews older at all. The big benefit is less crowds, and as mentioned earlier, the snow quality also benefits from not getting scraped off. Last benefit is not having to dodge people sitting on runs.I have nothing against Snowboarders, and an old friend is a famous one. We don’t exclusively ski Alta and DV, but they are often one of our first choices. Next month will be Aspen. But all things considered, not having them on the mountain definitely enhances the experience for us.
Skied Deer Valley yesterday in 30 inches of new snow. Will hit Alta on Saturday.
And get to MRG as often as I can when I’m up there.
All three are crowded enough as it is.
At Alta at least, I doubt the ban is motivated by animus towards snowboarders, and it's definitely not intended to create a sense of exclusivity. (The area is very intentionally no frills and fashionable ski wear sticks out like a sore thumb).
One motivation is to preserve snow conditions, since snowboards move a ton more snow than skis, particularly when the skiier/snowboarder has gotten themselves into terrain they're not comfortable with.
And, because snowboards don't allow independent foot movement, there are legitimate safety issues involved when the traverses have poor coverage and on those that are plain sketchy to begin with. Unbuckling and hiking in certain spots would be suicidal.
Anyways snowboarders, it's nothing personal. Don't be too mad.
Those places are like honeytraps for surly old ski-litists. I'm glad they exist. Much like I'm glad that the terrain park (aka trauma park) exists to give those young people in hockey shirts a place ride or ski where I'm not.
JohnL wrote:
Skied Deer Valley yesterday in 30 inches of new snow. Will hit Alta on Saturday.
And get to MRG as often as I can when I’m up there.
All three are crowded enough as it is.
As a boarder and skier. Well.
I dislike skiers because they take on terrain way way too advanced for their skill, and they make giant S turns creating those god aweful things they call moguls. It's the pox in my eyes.
Boarders, even the skilled ones (me) can wipe out in horrendous fashion just barely catching a back edge and not being ready for it. And way too many of them ride with wild abandon. Barely in control. They kick you on the lifts, they sit on the hills and at the tops of the lift areas. Ive only ever plowed into one person who was stopped at the bottom of a large hidden icy patch on a board.
What about ski bikes? :). Vail allows those now. Seems interesting what the thought process is to have a 45pound bike plowing into a kid trying to learn. 7S doesnt care I know that. Drunks bomb down the beginner trails, even on the least crowd days those trails are dangerous. So it seems natural they would add snowbikes to the mix. Not saying I dont want to try one.
Id have to disagree. The average set of skis put together are as wide as a board but longer. If Im riding powder, Im not doing giant S turns down the slopes like someone on skis would. Im looking for things to hop over/around, shoulders to hit, maybe making some nice turns but nothing like what you see skiers doing.
Think about what creates those god awful moguls. Not boards.
I think its funny when skiers say they're "carving."
Grumpy dad wrote:
As a boarder and skier. Well.
I dislike skiers because they take on terrain way way too advanced for their skill, and they make giant S turns creating those god aweful things they call moguls. It's the pox in my eyes.
Boarders, even the skilled ones (me) can wipe out in horrendous fashion just barely catching a back edge and not being ready for it. And way too many of them ride with wild abandon. Barely in control. They kick you on the lifts, they sit on the hills and at the tops of the lift areas. Ive only ever plowed into one person who was stopped at the bottom of a large hidden icy patch on a board.
What about ski bikes? :). Vail allows those now. Seems interesting what the thought process is to have a 45pound bike plowing into a kid trying to learn. 7S doesnt care I know that. Drunks bomb down the beginner trails, even on the least crowd days those trails are dangerous. So it seems natural they would add snowbikes to the mix. Not saying I dont want to try one.
