Well, "nice" weather coming in tonight in the Pittsburgh area... depends on your definition of "nice." Check out HV cam.
Not much yet, but supposed to snow through the evening.
Was fun to look at the National Weather Service snowfall recorded by spotters during the storm cycle. The screenshots are from Nov. 22 and Nov. 23.
Winter has arrived in the southeast! All the webcams are showing snowguns on in NC, VA, WV late on Friday, Nov. 29. There will undoubtedly be more slopes open by the first weekend of December.
Sugar and Cat had opened but it got pretty thin. Rain didn't help. App couldn't get started until the latest cold weather arrived.
Can see snow flying on the core trails from the Massanutten summit cam. When the lights are on, snowmaking is in progress.
Massanutten posted on Facebook a couple of hours ago:
Snow tubing opening day is Dec 7th
Preview opening day for ski season pass holders is Dec 13th
Official opening day is Dec 14th
SKI-PSU wrote:
Guns are off at both Whitetail and Roundtop. Very odd... one or both of them must have system issues
At 12:48 a.m. on Sunday (Dec. 1) they're blasting away at both Whitetail and Roundtop. Just saw two snowmakers at Roundtop walking around adjusting things. Whitetail has paused snowmaking on the expert terrain (they were making some there earlier) but appears to be going all out on the rest of the mountain. Maybe they had to put another quarter in the snowmaking meter when you checked. :)
jim55 wrote:
Guns are on at Whitetail at this time (1:56PM). I'm surprised as I would think it's too warm to make snow (35F according to Accuweather.com).
Do you know exactly where the temp is taken on Accuweather?
I never use ordinary weather info for a ski resort. A difference of a few miles can mean the difference between decent "wet bulb" conditions for snowmaking or no chance at all. For instance, the summit at Massanutten can have a temperature inversion that means snowmaking is impossible when it's just under 30 degrees in the valley below the peak.
One reason I like OpenSnow is that it's geared to ski resorts. The point forecasts are from mid-mountain based on their own software and available public sources for temperature estimates if there isn't an available weather gauge on the mountain.
Massanutten is snowmaking in earnest again. Temp at the summit was 35 a few hours ago. Down to 30 by 6pm and expected to get to 25 by 10pm according to the WeatherStem forecast linked from the Mnut summit webcam webpage. According to wunderground, it's 32 degrees at "Massanutten Resort" at 6:20pm. Given that the resort owns almost 6000 acres and the vertical drop for the ski slopes is 1100 ft, makes a difference where a weather station is located.
As of 8:30pm on Dec. 1, it's 27 degrees at the summit of Massanutten. Snowguns blazing at the base, including the big tower mounted fan guns for the tubing hill. Looks like there will be temps in the teens for the next three nights. Then a warm up. Followed by another 2-3 nights of good snowmaking weather. Makes sense that the opening date is Saturday, Dec. 14, not this weekend.
Mnut pass holders get a preview on Dec. 13.
At noon on Dec. 2, it's 26 degrees at the top of Massanutten. Snowguns on even at the base. Looks like daytime snowmaking all day today. Snowmakers will get a rest Dec. 8-10. Night time snowmaking should be good for a bit after that.
Been windy up top so it's going to take a while to build a base for DJ. Upper Paradice, the flat section, is getting enough coverage to cool down the ground. As I remember, Upper Paradice and Ridgecrest opened relatively early last season.
Snowshoe flexing their muscles
I don't know exactly where Accuweather temperature is taken but I was looking at the temp at Mercersburg on the Accuweather app. The temp on Whiltetail website was 33F which I would think is too warm also.
marzNC wrote:
jim55 wrote:
Guns are on at Whitetail at this time (1:56PM). I'm surprised as I would think it's too warm to make snow (35F according to Accuweather.com).Do you know exactly where the temp is taken on Accuweather?
I never use ordinary weather info for a ski resort. A difference of a few miles can mean the difference between decent "wet bulb" conditions for snowmaking or no chance at all. For instance, the summit at Massanutten can have a temperature inversion that means snowmaking is impossible when it's just under 30 degrees in the valley below the peak.
One reason I like OpenSnow is that it's geared to ski resorts. The point forecasts are from mid-mountain based on their own software and available public sources for temperature estimates if there isn't an available weather gauge on the mountain.
The lights are blazing at Massanutten on both of the blue runs off the Peak lift. Also bright to the top of Showtime. Seems as if the idea is to have three routes off Peak from the start.
Hard to remember that it wasn't that long ago when it was impossible to blow both Diamond Jim and Paradice at the same time. Combination of not enough pump capacity and not enough water to take advantage of daytime snowmaking for a few days in a row. Building a 2.5 mile pipeline from the valley solved the water issue. Took years for all the permits to be approved before construction could begin. The road was also widened near a big curve that had plenty of accidents during the rare times the road was icy. Upgrading pipes and pumps has been an ongoing process for the last decade.
jim55 wrote:
I don't know exactly where Accuweather temperature is taken but I was looking at the temp at Mercersburg on the Accuweather app. The temp on Whiltetail website was 33F which I would think is too warm also.
I implemented a feature years ago that uses raw point forecast data from the National Weather Service (NWS) to estimate more accurate conditions at each ski area in the Mid-Atlantic. Typically, when you search most weather sources for forecasts and put in a ski area, the nearest weather reporting station will be used - which might be at a much lower altitude and dozens of miles away. The point forecast API allows a specific latitude and longitude to be entered, and my understanding is the NWS performs some calibrations to consider things like altitude at that location.
In any case, you can find these (potentially) more accurate conditions on DCSki when you navigate to a specific resort in the Resort Profiles section and scroll down to the "Weather" section. I can't guarantee they'll always be better, but I tried to use a more accurate data feed. I also wrote an algorithm to predict current snowmaking conditions based on a variety of factors such as temperature, dew point, humidity, and wind speed. Keep in mind, though, that each mountain has its own microclimate and temperatures can vary by several degrees from top to bottom. It's not uncommon in our area to have temperature inversions where the top of the mountain is warmer than the bottom - enabling snowmaking at the bottom but not the top!
Here's a screenshot showing what the weather section looks like in DCSki Resort Profiles:
marzNC wrote:
The lights are blazing at Massanutten on both of the blue runs off the Peak lift. Also bright to the top of Showtime. Seems as if the idea is to have three routes off Peak from the start.
Hard to remember that it wasn't that long ago when it was impossible to blow both Diamond Jim and Paradice at the same time. Combination of not enough pump capacity and not enough water to take advantage of daytime snowmaking for a few days in a row. Building a 2.5 mile pipeline from the valley solved the water issue. Took years for all the permits to be approved before construction could begin. The road was also widened near a big curve that had plenty of accidents during the rare times the road was icy. Upgrading pipes and pumps has been an ongoing process for the last decade.
I wanted to go to Massanutten in late December many times, but they never had the two lift 6 runs open so I didn't bother. I could see myself taking a half day around New Year's if they pull it off. I haven't been since the new runs opened. It looks perfect for a half-day early in the season.
Nice job on the API pull.
Microclimates can make a difference.
zardog
Scott wrote:
jim55 wrote:
I don't know exactly where Accuweather temperature is taken but I was looking at the temp at Mercersburg on the Accuweather app. The temp on Whiltetail website was 33F which I would think is too warm also.
I implemented a feature years ago that uses raw point forecast data from the National Weather Service (NWS) to estimate more accurate conditions at each ski area in the Mid-Atlantic. Typically, when you search most weather sources for forecasts and put in a ski area, the nearest weather reporting station will be used - which might be at a much lower altitude and dozens of miles away. The point forecast API allows a specific latitude and longitude to be entered, and my understanding is the NWS performs some calibrations to consider things like altitude at that location.
In any case, you can find these (potentially) more accurate conditions on DCSki when you navigate to a specific resort in the Resort Profiles section and scroll down to the "Weather" section. I can't guarantee they'll always be better, but I tried to use a more accurate data feed. I also wrote an algorithm to predict current snowmaking conditions based on a variety of factors such as temperature, dew point, humidity, and wind speed. Keep in mind, though, that each mountain has its own microclimate and temperatures can vary by several degrees from top to bottom. It's not uncommon in our area to have temperature inversions where the top of the mountain is warmer than the bottom - enabling snowmaking at the bottom but not the top!
Here's a screenshot showing what the weather section looks like in DCSki Resort Profiles:
wfyurasko wrote:
I wanted to go to Massanutten in late December many times, but they never had the two lift 6 runs open so I didn't bother. I could see myself taking a half day around New Year's if they pull it off. I haven't been since the new runs opened. It looks perfect for a half-day early in the season.
Paradice is always one of the last trails to open. It's long and relatively wide. Takes a lot of hours to get good coverage. If you don't want to go in late December because Paradice is still closed, then consider going on a weekend in late February or early March instead. It's always going to be a higher priority to get blue runs open by the Christmas holidays given that most of the folks on the slopes at Massanutten are beginners or intermediates. The target date for getting 100% seems to be MLK weekend, not New Year's. Takes time to build a 3-5 foot base on core trails that can withstand the inevitable Jan and/or Feb thaws.
The number of new fan guns installed in the last couple years is impressive. All the old noisy stick guns on Upper Snowtime were replaced with big tower fan guns. If you haven't been to Mnut since 2021 or so, it's quite a different scenario in terms of number of trails and snowmaking power. I learned last season that 100+ snowguns can be running simultaneously. Not many, if any, of the tower mounted snowguns are manually operated any more. These days, when there is a window of round-the-clock snowmaking weather for 48-72 hours, Mnut can beat Wintergreen in output by a lot. The reverse was true around the time Wintergreen put in the big storage tank to go with all their automated snowguns.
Once Yee Ha is open as a connector trail so that it's possible to stay on the upper mountain skiing those two lifts, can get in a lot of laps riding the Peak detachable quad. May have a slightly longer line than before, but a 4-min ride beats a 7-min ride even if waiting 2-3 minutes to load on a weekend. Plus that lift stops less often because of loading issue, usually involving an intermediate or adults not quite paying attention.
From my observation in the last twenty years, Massanutten is going for a different Opening Day strategy for 2024-25. I don't think being 100% open is likely but they are going for quite a few more trails than the core three (DJ, Southern Comfort, Showtime) before the pass holders have a preview day on Dec. 13. There is snowmaking happening already on all the lower mountain beginner terrain. Not only Easy Street (Geronimo) but also the Meadow (long magic carpet, was the big terrain park with a J-bar). Blowing the upper mountain blue trails and opening them relatively early happened in 2023-24.
Paradice and MakAttack had been the last to open for years. Now that No Hessitation and Slot exist under Peak (was Lift 6), those may be the last to have a deep enough base to open. The preference is to have full side-to-side coverage if at all possible when a trail opens. Even if the edges may be a somewhat less deep than right under where the snow whales build up.
That's a nice feature. Crazy thing is, I just checked that page out now and it says it's probably too warm for snowmaking (36F) yet Whitetail is blasting their snow guns right now.
Scott wrote:
jim55 wrote:
I don't know exactly where Accuweather temperature is taken but I was looking at the temp at Mercersburg on the Accuweather app. The temp on Whiltetail website was 33F which I would think is too warm also.
I implemented a feature years ago that uses raw point forecast data from the National Weather Service (NWS) to estimate more accurate conditions at each ski area in the Mid-Atlantic. Typically, when you search most weather sources for forecasts and put in a ski area, the nearest weather reporting station will be used - which might be at a much lower altitude and dozens of miles away. The point forecast API allows a specific latitude and longitude to be entered, and my understanding is the NWS performs some calibrations to consider things like altitude at that location.
In any case, you can find these (potentially) more accurate conditions on DCSki when you navigate to a specific resort in the Resort Profiles section and scroll down to the "Weather" section. I can't guarantee they'll always be better, but I tried to use a more accurate data feed. I also wrote an algorithm to predict current snowmaking conditions based on a variety of factors such as temperature, dew point, humidity, and wind speed. Keep in mind, though, that each mountain has its own microclimate and temperatures can vary by several degrees from top to bottom. It's not uncommon in our area to have temperature inversions where the top of the mountain is warmer than the bottom - enabling snowmaking at the bottom but not the top!
Here's a screenshot showing what the weather section looks like in DCSki Resort Profiles:
It was really nice when Massanutten not only installed a webcam at the summit, but also hooked up with WeatherStem for a full weather station there. The stats include Mountaintop Humidity and a Wet Bulb temperature. I guarantee that the stats at the base are always a little different. Mnut has 1100 ft vertical (more than anywhere in PA). That's enough to make a noticeable difference, especially when on the edge for snowmaking conditions.
Does Elevation Affect Temperature? It Sure Does - October 2021 by OnTheSnow
Weather stats on December 3, 7am:
Wet Bulb table:
HV still making snow, although maybe not as much as 2 days ago:
marzNC wrote:
wfyurasko wrote:
I wanted to go to Massanutten in late December many times, but they never had the two lift 6 runs open so I didn't bother. I could see myself taking a half day around New Year's if they pull it off. I haven't been since the new runs opened. It looks perfect for a half-day early in the season.
Paradice is always one of the last trails to open. It's long and relatively wide. Takes a lot of hours to get good coverage. If you don't want to go in late December because Paradice is still closed, then consider going on a weekend in late February or early March instead. It's always going to be a higher priority to get blue runs open by the Christmas holidays given that most of the folks on the slopes at Massanutten are beginners or intermediates. The target date for getting 100% seems to be MLK weekend, not New Year's. Takes time to build a 3-5 foot base on core trails that can withstand the inevitable Jan and/or Feb thaws.
The number of new fan guns installed in the last couple years is impressive. All the old noisy stick guns on Upper Snowtime were replaced with big tower fan guns. If you haven't been to Mnut since 2021 or so, it's quite a different scenario in terms of number of trails and snowmaking power. I learned last season that 100+ snowguns can be running simultaneously. Not many, if any, of the tower mounted snowguns are manually operated any more. These days, when there is a window of round-the-clock snowmaking weather for 48-72 hours, Mnut can beat Wintergreen in output by a lot. The reverse was true around the time Wintergreen put in the big storage tank to go with all their automated snowguns.
Once Yee Ha is open as a connector trail so that it's possible to stay on the upper mountain skiing those two lifts, can get in a lot of laps riding the Peak detachable quad. May have a slightly longer line than before, but a 4-min ride beats a 7-min ride even if waiting 2-3 minutes to load on a weekend. Plus that lift stops less often because of loading issue, usually involving an intermediate or adults not quite paying attention.
I went in March 2022, had a good half-day. I was hoping the investments they made would mean they'd have Paradice open earlier.
First two days in the bag. Did 7S both sat and sun. Saturday was typical 7S machine-made fun. Icy. Crowds not too much of an issue except for maybe 1pm. Vail staff attentive / a little aggressive at keeping people moving in the right direction. Sunday (today) was a bit of a soft skiing meltdown, crowds even less of an issue. Only Wagner/bowl, alley on the north, fawn lane, deer pass, and a few other connectors on the frontside open.
Hilarious that HV has the frontside (easily as many slopes & trails) covered, and did not open. (Staff, choice, or lack of word from on high?)
I'd say maybe next weekend, but weather not good. And that was 5+ days of snowmaking for them.
Glad to get two days in though.
