Did anyone see Timberline just announced this?
Any chance we can get a combined season pass?
Also implied they are installing some type of electronic ticket checking system....
sohcrates wrote:
Did anyone see Timberline just announced this?
Interesting commentary about saving 350 jobs, having to be open at the same dates and the always questionable "revenue sharing" to be tracked by a bean counter.
I think this is good news.
Reading the article, I think the offer will be a joint resort season pass? But could it be for single day tickets? What will this mean for current holders of a season pass to only one of the mtns? In any event, I think this is a great development for visitors or regulars who want to maximize the nice synergy of two fine mtns in close proximity. Curious how they will ensure both mtns open and operate on same dates, but go for it!
Well, now Canaan announced the "deal" isn't yet a "deal". Apparently Timberline jumped the gun.
sohcrates wrote:
Well, now Canaan announced the "deal" isn't yet a "deal". Apparently Timberline jumped the gun.
Classic Timberline. Nothing like being a little premature. Maybe an angle to put more pressure on CVR to go through with the deal??
Has anyone heard any more update on this topic?
This is the latest TL news:
Is that just so typical or what from da valley. Well, I hope it does go through and that both places prosper. Pray for a good winter.
teleman wrote:
This is the latest TL news:
Thanks for the info. So, Timberline is still in deep trouble financially. Has there any recent news or actual movement of both (Canaan & Timberline) to be merged for snow lovers?
you know, since one is public and one is private that does not seem too likely, unless, creepy thought, timberline got the management rights to canaan valley ski area .... oh no....
teleman wrote:
This is the latest TL news:
....that and the power company shut their power off several weeks ago for non-payment of bills. I drove by last weekend and the place has been abandoned, looks more like a junk yard than a four season resort. There are broken snowguns, busted groomers, and parking signs from ski season toppled over and strewn across the parking lot.
Power was shut off to most of the resort, however a few lights were on inside the hotel...or maybe they're running on a generator. Oh, and the website continues to say the Timbers Pub opens everyday at 11am, plus the chairlift rides begin at 10am Saturdays and Sundays.
LOL.
I can assure you there is no Timbers Pub (lights out, furniture piled up on itself, etc), and no chairlift rides.
Forensic financial audit will commence shortly....
piusthedrcarve wrote:
teleman wrote:
(Canaan & Timberline) to be merged ......
The blind leading the blind?
SCWVA wrote:
piusthedrcarve wrote:
teleman wrote:
(Canaan & Timberline) to be merged ......
The blind leading the blind?
They both screwed the pooch last season
I sent this onto some friends. We'll see what happens. As a reference I have a fairly big network of friends in the hedge fund/investment world who are looking for deals like this. Raising $10-15m isn't a big deal if there's some sort of return attached.
I think buying from the state would be relatively cheap. It's the working capital you'd need to restart operations.
Back of the envelope is maybe $5m? Possibly more if they upgrade a lift. If I were a buyer the first thing I'd do is upgrade the lodge and upgrade the lifts and snow making. Then advertise like crazy dates that it'd be open and stick to it.
They could probably spend $250-500k on Facebook advertising alone. You could target everyone within a 3hr range who has an interest in skiing. Then bombard them with ads and deals raising awareness.
bonefish wrote:
teleman wrote:
This is the latest TL news:
....that and the power company shut their power off several weeks ago for non-payment of bills. I drove by last weekend and the place has been abandoned, looks more like a junk yard than a four season resort. There are broken snowguns, busted groomers, and parking signs from ski season toppled over and strewn across the parking lot.
Latest (6/19/2018) regarding Timberline Four Seasons Utility....
Interesting read. Seems the ski resort is still taking out extra money according to the financial investigation. I wonder at what point this becomes illegal?
The situation seems dire for the valley as a whole. There is unreliable water and the unreliable water utility doesn't always pay the sewer utility, which could imperil it.
I found it substantial that the engineering team made a recommendation! When the engineers are so worried about the status of the infrastructure you know the situation is bad.
You can find the utility's financial statements on the WV website. Without their debt (which a BK could discharge) they could be profitable and maintain their lines.
Unbelievable how long the courts lets this drag on. At the end of all of it, the public utility should end up taking this over.
oddballstocks wrote:
I wonder at what point this becomes illegal?
Exactly what I was wondering after reading! I am no lawyer, isn't this a clear case for fraud and embezzlement? From that Document according to the PSC the Owners of Timberline have:
- Failed to collect payment on water and sewer services provided to affiliates, in light of a Commission order to do so, with arrearages increasing to $168,078
- Encumbered utility revenues and facilities to secure debt to the benefit of an affiliate, both historically and currently
- Failed to collect the ordered repayment for improper affiliate transfers of cash, while increasing the amount transferred from Timberline Utilities to affiliate entities since January 2015 to $257,182
- Participated in a distribution in excess of retained earnings to shareholders
I have a bit of experience in regulated industries, and I have to say that if half of what is alleged in the Commission filings is accurate, then in pretty much any other state, Timberline Utilities would already have been taken over by the regulators in some fashion. This is "open and shut case" type of misconduct, in a regulated company environment.
It looks to me that this is a case of a busines that is so under capilized that it needs to rob Peter to pay Paul. They are either unable to generate enough revenue or are so overloaded with debt that they need to decide who to pay first. It would seem to me that Timberline will either become insolvent and enter into bankruptcy or they will need to sell the place.
Snow Smith they are already insolvent. They are making a list of creditors. Anyone who previously wanted to buy the place will probably wait for the liquidation sale at this point.
A little more for your reading enjoyment.
And in all afairness, Tline's response to the allegations.
I hope the sheet hits the fan sooner than later, so a new owner can get a start of rebuilding the place before this winter.
First, I am not a TL homeowner, or have any connection to TL other than having spent many past days over four decades enjoying the ski mountain. But after watching this play out over multiple years, and having read the most recent letters between the Public Utility Water and Sewer Company servicing the TL private water and sewage company/portal (wholly owned by TL by the way), I believe that it is time for the general public to speak up to the owners of TL:
What a pitiful response by TL (but probably legally correct) to an issue that totally impacts the homeowners at TL, as well as, and somewhat less in importance, the operation of the ski area. The response addresses none of the real issues and I suspect TL will continue to trumpet the importance of the overall TL enterprise to the local economy (which to many outsiders seems to diminish with each year of lessened operations). Come on TL owners, let someone with the knowledge and economic resources take over and try to make a go of the ski area, etc. (if there is enough left to be able to make a “go”). “Denial” appears to be a continuation of a selfish tale. I do wish it not so, thank you for years of fun, and wish you “good luck”; but most importantly ask you to do right by the many that have invested in your dream.
As a reminder, DCSki is not an appropriate venue for hypothesizing about legal issues surrounding ski resorts. While it's OK to post links to state documents or news articles, I ask that forum members refrain from editorializing on these types of issues since it is difficult to validate the accuracy of statements made by anonymous posters. If you want to discuss a topic like this, please take it somewhere else like a Facebook group.
Scott wrote:
As a reminder, DCSki is not an appropriate venue for hypothesizing about legal issues surrounding ski resorts. While it's OK to post links to state documents or news articles, I ask that forum members refrain from editorializing on these types of issues since it is difficult to validate the accuracy of statements made by anonymous posters. If you want to discuss a topic like this, please take it somewhere else like a Facebook group.
Scott, I read your note after I posted my note about the seemingly current but perhaps changed situation about TL and the endless struggle between the TLFSI Utility and the Public Service Company that services the TLFSI portal. I have removed most all references to arguably public domain documentation over the past few years, and most of my sometimes pointed editorial opinions about this situation. I do believe that is important that we as a skiing community appeal to TL to do right by those that have invested in their enterprise, to include day ski trippers as well as the far more invested home and lot owners. If you do not think I have toned down my note enough, then please remove it and this note to you. Sincerely, Morgan
The racing group, I believe from maryland, that puts on the annual summer motorcycle race as well as the winter snowmobile race has just cancelled their event at timberline and has released some press updates that say they are no longer holding the event at timberline resort June 30th becuase the "Timberline ski resort has closed down".
This is my personal speculation:, unfotunately, I think the owner no longer has the deep pockets or the line of credit to keep the ship afloat. This is very unfortunate and I am sure the owners are extremely disappointed that they will probably loose a business that they spent their lives building. A family owned business, not a Resort conglomerate owned business. Everybody was excited about $200 season passes. This to me is an unsustainable business model. I'd rather pay more and know the Resort is going to improve. They've had to face challenging weather and climate, in a remote location where it is already a challenge to attract enough business. On top of that, the skiing population is declining.
I've seen this before. We HV owners watched as HV went on a slow ride downhill. Unpaid electric bills, unpaid hotel taxes and in desperation they logged all the undevoped forest land. The ski lodge roof had holes in it. The Resort was weeks from closing shop. They put it up for sale and a white knight known as the Buncher Company swooped in, bought the Resort, invested $10 million in new snow making, new lift, new day lodge and main ski lodge renovations. We now have stable ownership with Seven Springs.
Timberline has the best terrain in the mid-Atlantic and Corridor H has provided more accessibility. All that is required is deep pocketed love. Will it be absorbed into a ski conglomerate or are there deep pocketed locals who will take over? It should be interesting!
