Hey folks, imagine you want to go skiing, but no one posts open trails online, and the only way you can find out is if you drive up there and buy a ticket. Only then can you see if there's a trail to ski on. But, if there isn't, you've driven all that way and spent all that money only to find out you can't ski. Seems absurd, but that's kind of how it is for me. I don't get the sense that it's like that for many other people here, but I mostly only want to go up if there are moguls. I'm fine doing a lot of groomed run practice, but there's more than enough of that always, because top to bottom mogul trails are rare around here. I'm also ok to ski whatever with friends and family, but to go up by myself, it's moguls or nothing. Sometimes I put all that effort and money getting up there only to find out there really aren't moguls. I'm so alone in this approach to skiing that the resorts do not help me out much. Maybe some will give the grooming report, but that's a far cry from telling the mogul conditions to determine if that's how I want to spend my day. I don't think many of you will give me much sympathy, because you're happy to be up there without moguls. Even so, I hope for some empathy and some help. Consider it a civic duty that helps out just me.
Through the season, if you spot some moguls somewhere, please report it to this thread. It's possible that there won't be much for a while, and this thread will bury, but please remember it and post to it. I would appreciate as much detail as you are willing to give; size, shape, regularity, surface conditions, length.... but just a trail name is fine too.
Stephen,
Thanks for starting this thread. Hopefully the weather will cooperate and we will start to see some bumps forming soon.
Whitetail with Exhibition does a great job of supporting moguls, and with the web cam looking at it, I can determine the situation. I've looped that trail many times. If all the resorts were like that, I wouldn't have any problems.
7S often has moguls. A lot of good mogul skiers go there.
I would like to get on that Lower Wildcat with bumps.
Timberline had bumps once upon a time. It's so sad that they don't seem to have them anymore.
Often a line will show up somewhere that's just a sliver down the side, and that's good enough for me.
Stephen wrote:
From Timberline's website this morning: "All open terrain has been machine groomed except for Off the Wall and The Drop, which are ungroomed with snowmaking mounds for a more advanced terrain option." Is this a sea change in philosophy?
I hope so. Maybe our efforts of complaining to Timberline over the past several years are finally being addressed. However, I’m not optimistic and I bet they will push them out after this worm spell and the place will remain groomed to the rest of the season.
Stephen wrote:
From Timberline's website this morning: "All open terrain has been machine groomed except for Off the Wall and The Drop, which are ungroomed with snowmaking mounds for a more advanced terrain option." Is this a sea change in philosophy?
I boarded down the ungroomed rock hard mounds last week (bad decision :-), 'twas a bad decision. Hopefully they get some soft days.
Whales aren't ideal, but I'll take it.
"for a more advanced terrain option.", that part gives me hope.
From Mnut today (12/29)
"It is coming! A front is expected to push through today, helping the warm air to make a (well wished for) exit and welcoming colder temperatures back to the Valley. Snowmaking crews are ready to fire guns back up on majority of open terrain today, aiming for a 4 PM go – time. Due to warm temps, Slot has been left ungroomed for our off-piste and bump enthusiast to enjoy! (Thin cover conditions will be present)"
I am guessing this is a today-only deal - once they make snow later today they will probably groom it out. And I was unexpectedly able to get out for a few hours yesterday morning and bumps had not really started forming on the Slot yet by the time I left.
Timberline is doing great this year. How were the moguls?
MRPLOW wrote:
Skied Timberline Jan 3rd/4th. Was pleasantly surprised to find moguls and no grooming on "The Drop" and "Off the Wall". They should leave the "The drop" as an ungroomed mogul run the whole season. They have a bunch of other similar slopes that go straight down the face, so was awesome to have the added variety of a fun mogul run.
Timberline - Off the Wall from today. Skied beautifully, super soft and lots of fun. Think the bumps are going to stick around also. They did groom The Drop.
Perfect! You lead with the good news.
AaronS wrote:
Timberline - Off the Wall from today. Skied beautifully, super soft and lots of fun. Think the bumps are going to stick around also. They did groom The Drop.
AaronS wrote:
Timberline - Off the Wall from today. Skied beautifully, super soft and lots of fun. Think the bumps are going to stick around also. They did groom The Drop.
...........................
That looks every bit as good as anything in Utah right now!
I see moguls on Exhibition at Whitetail on their web cam.
Wintergreen still hasn't opened Outer Limits. That's messed up. Something's going on there.
Looked like there was a pipe repair going on a few weeks ago (very early Jan) but the OL guns were on last weekend before and during the snowstorm. Conditions on the rest of the Highlands have been absolutely delightful the past couple weeks.
Related to your bumps interest -- there were some bumps forming on Eagle Swoop of all places on Sunday. I hated it but you probably woulda loved it!
Stephen wrote:
I see moguls on Exhibition at Whitetail on their web cam.
Wintergreen still hasn't opened Outer Limits. That's messed up. Something's going on there.
In the early 90s they let Eagle Swoop bump up. I haven't seen bumps there since then.
natehurst wrote:
Looked like there was a pipe repair going on a few weeks ago (very early Jan) but the OL guns were on last weekend before and during the snowstorm. Conditions on the rest of the Highlands have been absolutely delightful the past couple weeks.
Related to your bumps interest -- there were some bumps forming on Eagle Swoop of all places on Sunday. I hated it but you probably woulda loved it!
Stephen wrote:
I see moguls on Exhibition at Whitetail on their web cam.
Wintergreen still hasn't opened Outer Limits. That's messed up. Something's going on there.
I'm thinking hard about where I should go, and if I should go. At some point I stopped skiing in the mid Atlantic when it was cold, because the bumps were just like skiing on rocks. Though last two years I went to Massanutten even though it was cold, expecting not to ski bumps, and I ended up having some good bump days. They've been doing a great job of blowing snow and making good cold mogul conditions.
Here are my rules: If there's been a snow storm, and it stays cold all day since that storm, it's good. If it's above 35-40 degrees, depending on shade, it's good. The mystery is how much snow they make. Many places years ago would develop a mogul field and then leave it untouched with no snow making which made for some terrible conditions.
Also, this last snow storm around my house changed to rock hard ice even though it never got warm. There was just too much water content when it fell. I don't know how much that varied across the region. So, my first rule might not be applicable.
Does anyone have any info about the surface conditions?
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
If the patrol opens the natural snow trails at Laurel, half the mountain is moguls. Early morning yesterday the trail report listed them as closed but later in the day 100% of the mountain was open. It makes sense that they aren't listed as open until patrol checks conditions first.
I went to Whitetail today. If I got this report sooner I would have gone to Laurel. I was just thinking that the natural snow wasn't that great, and my best bet would be snowmaking. It didn't turn out that well. As far as I could tell from the web cam, the bumps looked good, but they were really just mounds of snow separated by sheets of ice. It was good exercise, but it was a character building day.
Everywhere that I want to turn to ski the fall line is where everyone else is turning too, and the snow is scraped clean. I mostly tried to ski from mound to mound. Here's a video of it. The ice doesn't come through on the video. In reality, it feels like it's everywhere, because a lot of those paths that look viable on the video are too abrupt to ski. I should have gotten video from the lift, where it looked like little mounds of snow in a sea of ice. Between the mounds, I have no edge grip. All I can do is skid down it.
If there's anyone that loves these conditions please share a video that shows how you ski it.
I already had a video of Whitetail on my Youtube channel for mid Atlantic mogul trails, so this video is unlisted. Just if you have the link below you can see it, and at some point I'll remove it. I'm just putting it up so people can see the conditions. I don't care about number of views.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
I sent this reply to wgo: Conditions should be good. There was no rain/sleet during last weekend's storm. The natural snow terrain is marked closed on the early morning report but they should open 100% of the mountain after the patrol does their thing. The entire skiers right side of the mountain is in bumps that are not frozen Ice. Oh, wait, there was one trail closed and it's not on the map, the lower lift line is skied off.
Stephen wrote:
I went to Whitetail today. If I got this report sooner I would have gone to Laurel. I was just thinking that the natural snow wasn't that great, and my best bet would be snowmaking. It didn't turn out that well. As far as I could tell from the web cam, the bumps looked good, but they were really just mounds of snow separated by sheets of ice. It was good exercise, but it was a character building day.
Everywhere that I want to turn to ski the fall line is where everyone else is turning too, and the snow is scraped clean. I mostly tried to ski from mound to mound. Here's a video of it. The ice doesn't come through on the video. In reality, it feels like it's everywhere, because a lot of those paths that look viable on the video are too abrupt to ski. I should have gotten video from the lift, where it looked like little mounds of snow in a sea of ice. Between the mounds, I have no edge grip. All I can do is skid down it.
If there's anyone that loves these conditions please share a video that shows how you ski it.
I already had a video of Whitetail on my Youtube channel for mid Atlantic mogul trails, so this video is unlisted. Just if you have the link below you can see it, and at some point I'll remove it. I'm just putting it up so people can see the conditions. I don't care about number of views.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
I sent this reply to wgo: Conditions should be good. There was no rain/sleet during last weekend's storm. The natural snow terrain is marked closed on the early morning report but they should open 100% of the mountain after the patrol does their thing. The entire skiers right side of the mountain is in bumps that are not frozen Ice. Oh, wait, there was one trail closed and it's not on the map, the lower lift line is skied off.
Tough to give a definitive opinion, since this is a POV video. But overall, seems like pretty decent skiing, especially given the conditions.
Tactical advice: ski less in the troughs, do rounder turns, less in the zipper line. These are not real rutted bumps, so you can do some carving. Carve around the icy patches, use the top side of the bumps where there is more snow todo your turns. Avoid the troughs as much as you can, visualize the backside and sides of the bumps. Look at the bumps, not the troughs. You generally ski where you look.
Random advice from the Internets, but I do know what I’m talking about.
JohnL wrote:
Stephen wrote:
I went to Whitetail today. If I got this report sooner I would have gone to Laurel. I was just thinking that the natural snow wasn't that great, and my best bet would be snowmaking. It didn't turn out that well. As far as I could tell from the web cam, the bumps looked good, but they were really just mounds of snow separated by sheets of ice. It was good exercise, but it was a character building day.
Everywhere that I want to turn to ski the fall line is where everyone else is turning too, and the snow is scraped clean. I mostly tried to ski from mound to mound. Here's a video of it. The ice doesn't come through on the video. In reality, it feels like it's everywhere, because a lot of those paths that look viable on the video are too abrupt to ski. I should have gotten video from the lift, where it looked like little mounds of snow in a sea of ice. Between the mounds, I have no edge grip. All I can do is skid down it.
If there's anyone that loves these conditions please share a video that shows how you ski it.
I already had a video of Whitetail on my Youtube channel for mid Atlantic mogul trails, so this video is unlisted. Just if you have the link below you can see it, and at some point I'll remove it. I'm just putting it up so people can see the conditions. I don't care about number of views.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
I sent this reply to wgo: Conditions should be good. There was no rain/sleet during last weekend's storm. The natural snow terrain is marked closed on the early morning report but they should open 100% of the mountain after the patrol does their thing. The entire skiers right side of the mountain is in bumps that are not frozen Ice. Oh, wait, there was one trail closed and it's not on the map, the lower lift line is skied off.Tough to give a definitive opinion, since this is a POV video. But overall, seems like pretty decent skiing, especially given the conditions.
Tactical advice: ski less in the troughs, do rounder turns, less in the zipper line. These are not real rutted bumps, so you can do some carving. Carve around the icy patches, use the top side of the bumps where there is more snow todo your turns. Avoid the troughs as much as you can, visualize the backside and sides of the bumps. Look at the bumps, not the troughs. You generally ski where you look.
Random advice from the Internets, but I do know what I’m talking about.
Alternative advice, if you have SL skis and the carving skills, you could simply carve the troughs. Requires a stiff well-tuned ski.
I don't have an SL ski, but I've been meaning to get one. Which one should I get?
These bumps don't have troughs, though. It's just a sheet of ice with mounds of snow. If the bumps were closer together, I would just link turns from mound of snow to mound of snow which can be really fun, because it's skiing powder/packed powder. I'm definitely going to get an SL ski at some point, though I was thinking for groomers. Maybe buy CARV and mess around with that. The Idones are pretty amazing skis. Super fun. The edge grip is pretty good, and they have a good amount of carve to them. I doubt there are many bump conditions where an SL ski is more fun, though I see the potential for days like Friday. I'd like to find out. Have you been on a mogul ski? I haven't been on a dedicated SL ski, but I've skied high end carver skis. My last pair bent in the bumps, and I haven't looked back since.
JohnL wrote:
JohnL wrote:
Stephen wrote:
I went to Whitetail today. If I got this report sooner I would have gone to Laurel. I was just thinking that the natural snow wasn't that great, and my best bet would be snowmaking. It didn't turn out that well. As far as I could tell from the web cam, the bumps looked good, but they were really just mounds of snow separated by sheets of ice. It was good exercise, but it was a character building day.
Everywhere that I want to turn to ski the fall line is where everyone else is turning too, and the snow is scraped clean. I mostly tried to ski from mound to mound. Here's a video of it. The ice doesn't come through on the video. In reality, it feels like it's everywhere, because a lot of those paths that look viable on the video are too abrupt to ski. I should have gotten video from the lift, where it looked like little mounds of snow in a sea of ice. Between the mounds, I have no edge grip. All I can do is skid down it.
If there's anyone that loves these conditions please share a video that shows how you ski it.
I already had a video of Whitetail on my Youtube channel for mid Atlantic mogul trails, so this video is unlisted. Just if you have the link below you can see it, and at some point I'll remove it. I'm just putting it up so people can see the conditions. I don't care about number of views.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
I sent this reply to wgo: Conditions should be good. There was no rain/sleet during last weekend's storm. The natural snow terrain is marked closed on the early morning report but they should open 100% of the mountain after the patrol does their thing. The entire skiers right side of the mountain is in bumps that are not frozen Ice. Oh, wait, there was one trail closed and it's not on the map, the lower lift line is skied off.Tough to give a definitive opinion, since this is a POV video. But overall, seems like pretty decent skiing, especially given the conditions.
Tactical advice: ski less in the troughs, do rounder turns, less in the zipper line. These are not real rutted bumps, so you can do some carving. Carve around the icy patches, use the top side of the bumps where there is more snow todo your turns. Avoid the troughs as much as you can, visualize the backside and sides of the bumps. Look at the bumps, not the troughs. You generally ski where you look.
Random advice from the Internets, but I do know what I’m talking about.
Alternative advice, if you have SL skis and the carving skills, you could simply carve the troughs. Requires a stiff well-tuned ski.
I meant to write last time, that I'm not going to complain about the sheets of ice. Instead, I'm going to be thankful for the mounds of powder.
wgo wrote:
Bumps on skiers right of lower wildcat at laurel were similar, mounds of snow with scrapped off snow in between. Still fun though. On several other trails very nice moguls were in the process of forming, these were shaping up nicely by the end of the day.
wgo wrote:
Bumps on skiers right of lower wildcat at laurel were similar, mounds of snow with scrapped off snow in between. Still fun though. On several other trails very nice moguls were in the process of forming, these were shaping up nicely by the end of the day.
Trails with snow making don’t develop good bumps until the weather gets pretty warm. Aka, Spring. Once you get down to what I call the “snowmaking perma-frost layer” and the temps are still cold, skiing pretty much sucks. Same out west as it is back east. And regular grooming helps to compress the snow.
Stephen wrote:
I don't have an SL ski, but I've been meaning to get one. Which one should I get?
These bumps don't have troughs, though. It's just a sheet of ice with mounds of snow. If the bumps were closer together, I would just link turns from mound of snow to mound of snow which can be really fun, because it's skiing powder/packed powder. I'm definitely going to get an SL ski at some point, though I was thinking for groomers. Maybe buy CARV and mess around with that. The Idones are pretty amazing skis. Super fun. The edge grip is pretty good, and they have a good amount of carve to them. I doubt there are many bump conditions where an SL ski is more fun, though I see the potential for days like Friday. I'd like to find out. Have you been on a mogul ski? I haven't been on a dedicated SL ski, but I've skied high end carver skis. My last pair bent in the bumps, and I haven't looked back since.
JohnL wrote:
JohnL wrote:
Stephen wrote:
I went to Whitetail today. If I got this report sooner I would have gone to Laurel. I was just thinking that the natural snow wasn't that great, and my best bet would be snowmaking. It didn't turn out that well. As far as I could tell from the web cam, the bumps looked good, but they were really just mounds of snow separated by sheets of ice. It was good exercise, but it was a character building day.
Everywhere that I want to turn to ski the fall line is where everyone else is turning too, and the snow is scraped clean. I mostly tried to ski from mound to mound. Here's a video of it. The ice doesn't come through on the video. In reality, it feels like it's everywhere, because a lot of those paths that look viable on the video are too abrupt to ski. I should have gotten video from the lift, where it looked like little mounds of snow in a sea of ice. Between the mounds, I have no edge grip. All I can do is skid down it.
If there's anyone that loves these conditions please share a video that shows how you ski it.
I already had a video of Whitetail on my Youtube channel for mid Atlantic mogul trails, so this video is unlisted. Just if you have the link below you can see it, and at some point I'll remove it. I'm just putting it up so people can see the conditions. I don't care about number of views.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
I sent this reply to wgo: Conditions should be good. There was no rain/sleet during last weekend's storm. The natural snow terrain is marked closed on the early morning report but they should open 100% of the mountain after the patrol does their thing. The entire skiers right side of the mountain is in bumps that are not frozen Ice. Oh, wait, there was one trail closed and it's not on the map, the lower lift line is skied off.Tough to give a definitive opinion, since this is a POV video. But overall, seems like pretty decent skiing, especially given the conditions.
Tactical advice: ski less in the troughs, do rounder turns, less in the zipper line. These are not real rutted bumps, so you can do some carving. Carve around the icy patches, use the top side of the bumps where there is more snow todo your turns. Avoid the troughs as much as you can, visualize the backside and sides of the bumps. Look at the bumps, not the troughs. You generally ski where you look.
Random advice from the Internets, but I do know what I’m talking about.
Alternative advice, if you have SL skis and the carving skills, you could simply carve the troughs. Requires a stiff well-tuned ski.
OK, we have a bit of mis-communication, no worries.
First of all, from your vid, I wouldn’t consider that a bump run where bump technique is really needed. I’ve skied that trail numerous times in the past, under a variety of conditions. True bump runs: Alta, Snowbird, Outer Limits at K, Stein’s at the Bush, pretty much all of MRG. I think you get my point.
I said troughs, but that is where true troughs will form once it gets warmer and skier traffic can punch through the firm ice layer. But the technique is generally the same.
From what you posted, you have the option of skiing that run as a groomed run, using carving technique, or as a bump run using bump technique. I haven’t used CARV, but it may be the wrong tool for bumps. For deeply rutted bumps, you are skiing a flatter ski, with gradual skidding to control ski. You are not carving. You should not be following the line that Olympic mogul skiers use - but follow most of their technique. They are timed, so they take a direct path down the fall line, using the back of the bumps and massive flexion/absorption to control speed. That is not sustainable skiing. Think rounder turns, skiing the slow line fast.
In general, I find SL skis too stiff for deep bumps. But I know skiers who can pull it off. Again, in deep bumps, you are more skidding than carving. Those aren’t deep bumps. So, could carve through that using turns of various roundness, from skipping the piles completely to rounder turns using the back side and side of the piles. I ski Atomic Redster S9, but Fisher and others have great SL skis. I haven’t skied true bump skis, since I am more of a free ride and tree skier - conditions permitting. You don’t need a dedicated bump ski to ski bumps. For deeper bumps, I would use my new front side carvers, Head eRalleys at 78 underfoot. Still can carve decently, but skid better and are less stiff. For soft Western bumps, my daily drivers are Atomic Bent 100s.
Summary: don’t worry about the ski. But ski rounder turns. Amount of carve determined by your choice and how deep the bumps are. Edit: you are skidding from snow pile to snow pile because you line is too straight down the fall line.
And when I say skid, I mean a flatter ski angle, not a mini hockey stop. Hockey stops have a high edge angle. So, maybe skid is not the best word…
Think pivot slips.
For the most part, I turned on the mounds of snow or on the soft edges of the mounds of snow. Just, sometimes, on that run, the mounds of snow were too far apart. I don't see much else to do with that much space unless an SL ski would have better edge grip. I did make lots of round turns going across the hill, because that's where the mounds of snow were, and I want to turn where there's snow. But in general, that's not what I want to do, nor what I think is fun. When I make round turns I feel like a failure, because round turns are easy. Direct lines are challenging, and the sensation is second to none. The sensation of the direct line is better, even if there's some skidding, than the sensation of making round turns. I'll give myself a pass on that slope, because I think it's more fun to turn on the snow rather than skid down that sheet of ice. Though, I wish the conditions were better for skiing more direct, so that it would be more fun.
I think you'd be surprised how much carving I actually do in the direct line. Really, they are short swing turns without a long finish, so that means there's some swing to start it, and you don't finish across the hill. But, the primary mechanism is to tip the ski, get performance from the ski, and have the ski turn without rotary input. Here's a video from two weeks ago on a fairly well know bump run at Heavenly. This is a steeper run than Exhibition, but the conditions were cold and soft. There are a few places I skid, but for the most part that narrow mogul ski doesn't really skid much in those conditions. Regardless, I tip the ski, and often it will carve, sometimes it will scrape, but the turn mechanisms are the same. The only difference from a high edge angle groomed run turn is that there's less hip angulation, and you don't finish the turn. It feels like flying. It's like powder skiing. I'm a junkie for it. But, if there's no edge grip, and the bumps are far apart, then it's not that great.
But, let's not turn this into an Epic ski or Pugski, ski school blow out about technique. For this forum, it's local stoke,
JohnL wrote:
Stephen wrote:
I don't have an SL ski, but I've been meaning to get one. Which one should I get?
These bumps don't have troughs, though. It's just a sheet of ice with mounds of snow. If the bumps were closer together, I would just link turns from mound of snow to mound of snow which can be really fun, because it's skiing powder/packed powder. I'm definitely going to get an SL ski at some point, though I was thinking for groomers. Maybe buy CARV and mess around with that. The Idones are pretty amazing skis. Super fun. The edge grip is pretty good, and they have a good amount of carve to them. I doubt there are many bump conditions where an SL ski is more fun, though I see the potential for days like Friday. I'd like to find out. Have you been on a mogul ski? I haven't been on a dedicated SL ski, but I've skied high end carver skis. My last pair bent in the bumps, and I haven't looked back since.
JohnL wrote:
JohnL wrote:
Stephen wrote:
I went to Whitetail today. If I got this report sooner I would have gone to Laurel. I was just thinking that the natural snow wasn't that great, and my best bet would be snowmaking. It didn't turn out that well. As far as I could tell from the web cam, the bumps looked good, but they were really just mounds of snow separated by sheets of ice. It was good exercise, but it was a character building day.
Everywhere that I want to turn to ski the fall line is where everyone else is turning too, and the snow is scraped clean. I mostly tried to ski from mound to mound. Here's a video of it. The ice doesn't come through on the video. In reality, it feels like it's everywhere, because a lot of those paths that look viable on the video are too abrupt to ski. I should have gotten video from the lift, where it looked like little mounds of snow in a sea of ice. Between the mounds, I have no edge grip. All I can do is skid down it.
If there's anyone that loves these conditions please share a video that shows how you ski it.
I already had a video of Whitetail on my Youtube channel for mid Atlantic mogul trails, so this video is unlisted. Just if you have the link below you can see it, and at some point I'll remove it. I'm just putting it up so people can see the conditions. I don't care about number of views.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
I sent this reply to wgo: Conditions should be good. There was no rain/sleet during last weekend's storm. The natural snow terrain is marked closed on the early morning report but they should open 100% of the mountain after the patrol does their thing. The entire skiers right side of the mountain is in bumps that are not frozen Ice. Oh, wait, there was one trail closed and it's not on the map, the lower lift line is skied off.Tough to give a definitive opinion, since this is a POV video. But overall, seems like pretty decent skiing, especially given the conditions.
Tactical advice: ski less in the troughs, do rounder turns, less in the zipper line. These are not real rutted bumps, so you can do some carving. Carve around the icy patches, use the top side of the bumps where there is more snow todo your turns. Avoid the troughs as much as you can, visualize the backside and sides of the bumps. Look at the bumps, not the troughs. You generally ski where you look.
Random advice from the Internets, but I do know what I’m talking about.
Alternative advice, if you have SL skis and the carving skills, you could simply carve the troughs. Requires a stiff well-tuned ski.
OK, we have a bit of mis-communication, no worries.
First of all, from your vid, I wouldn’t consider that a bump run where bump technique is really needed. I’ve skied that trail numerous times in the past, under a variety of conditions. True bump runs: Alta, Snowbird, Outer Limits at K, Stein’s at the Bush, pretty much all of MRG. I think you get my point.
I said troughs, but that is where true troughs will form once it gets warmer and skier traffic can punch through the firm ice layer. But the technique is generally the same.
From what you posted, you have the option of skiing that run as a groomed run, using carving technique, or as a bump run using bump technique. I haven’t used CARV, but it may be the wrong tool for bumps. For deeply rutted bumps, you are skiing a flatter ski, with gradual skidding to control ski. You are not carving. You should not be following the line that Olympic mogul skiers use - but follow most of their technique. They are timed, so they take a direct path down the fall line, using the back of the bumps and massive flexion/absorption to control speed. That is not sustainable skiing. Think rounder turns, skiing the slow line fast.
In general, I find SL skis too stiff for deep bumps. But I know skiers who can pull it off. Again, in deep bumps, you are more skidding than carving. Those aren’t deep bumps. So, could carve through that using turns of various roundness, from skipping the piles completely to rounder turns using the back side and side of the piles. I ski Atomic Redster S9, but Fisher and others have great SL skis. I haven’t skied true bump skis, since I am more of a free ride and tree skier - conditions permitting. You don’t need a dedicated bump ski to ski bumps. For deeper bumps, I would use my new front side carvers, Head eRalleys at 78 underfoot. Still can carve decently, but skid better and are less stiff. For soft Western bumps, my daily drivers are Atomic Bent 100s.
Summary: don’t worry about the ski. But ski rounder turns. Amount of carve determined by your choice and how deep the bumps are. Edit: you are skidding from snow pile to snow pile because you line is too straight down the fall line.
Liberty on the back side has a run of moguls too.
Snow was fantastic at Liberty yesterday. Was there from 1130 to about 3. The place was empty too.
Glad you got out! My schedule opened up so I was able to get out to Mnut for a couple hours. Snow was good, ranged from really nice to firm but edgeable.
wojo wrote:
Liberty on the back side has a run of moguls too.
Snow was fantastic at Liberty yesterday. Was there from 1130 to about 3. The place was empty too.
From mnut today:
If you are a fan of bumps then head over to No Hessitation today. Our grooming crew seeded some bumps overnight and now it is up to you all to get out there and shape them up!
I'll be there on saturday to check it out. I'll try not to mess them up.
I can see them on the web cam. Looks good.
wgo wrote:
From mnut today:
If you are a fan of bumps then head over to No Hessitation today. Our grooming crew seeded some bumps overnight and now it is up to you all to get out there and shape them up!
I'll be there on saturday to check it out. I'll try not to mess them up.
Snapdragon, by encouraging me, is to blame for this long trip report.
I went to the limits of outer space (dcski space), Laurel Mountain. It’s a 4.5 hour drive for me. I did it in one day, plus squeezing in some other stuff. It’s the only way I could do Laurel, because if I have more time I’ll go someplace else (I fly free). On the highway I hit a bobcat. I feel very bad for this cat. It just jumped in front of the car out of nowhere. There’s nothing I could have done other than not drive. It also damaged my car, turning this into an expensive trip.
It snowed 4 inches two days ago but stayed brutally cold, so I figured it would be good conditions. It was a high of 9 degrees. I started out with my 2nd skis, incase of thin cover, expecting to ski natural trails. After my first run down the far green, I pulled into the singles line. A guy in front of me just stood there. It’s freezing! Group after group passed, that he could have joined. Finally, I said, “You just need to go”. He turned around to me and said, “You need to be quiet.”, and then he went. Great local vibe! There is only one slow lift, and the merge lines were chaotic. A number of people said it was the busiest they’ve seen it. It wasn’t busy. But, that might explain why they aren’t used to dealing with merging lines. Also the lift stopped a lot, like every ride. I went to skier’s right on the natural trails, and there wasn’t enough cover. I couldn’t see the moguls on Wildcat from the lift, so this was the low point for me. I killed a cat, damaged my car, scratched my skis, was about to throw down with the locals, and I couldn’t see many moguls.
Then, I found the moguls on Lower Wildcat. There were also more than 4 different approaches that all had fun moguls. Laurel run was beautiful powder moguls, and no one was skiing it! Only the ski patrol went in there to do some training. They were training all day in the moguls, and it was a huge pain in the butt. They were often in the way. Still though, I would say for the first time visiting a place, those sections of approaches combined with steep moguls at the end is about the best skiing in the mid Atlantic. The parking was so nice. Even though I got there late on a Sunday, I parked very close to the lift on a snowy lot. I drove my AWD for 4.5 hours, just to have it for that parking lot.
I intended on skiing my 2nd skis all day, but they didn’t have enough edge grip for the Wildcat bumps, so I swapped out with my first skis. It was a decent enough line. I skied the ice. The only thing is that entire side of the mountain is a double fall line. If I was a local and looped that run every week, I would have a huge right leg. The constant jogs to the left got old along with the asymmetry of the Wildcat line. Easy right turn, hard hard left turn, repeated. Right in the middle of the run the moguls just stop. How much better it would have been if they continued down the mountain. After the trees, you can drop down to the right to follow the true fall line, and the bumps would have been great there. Whoever decides where to groom at some of these mountains just aren’t mogul skiers and have no idea what makes for a good mogul run. If I came across a double fall line like this out west I wouldn’t think anything of it, because you mix it in with lots of other options, like perhaps a double fall line going the other way. But, when there’s only one run…. This is the problem with trying to replicate big mountain skiing as best as we can in the mid Atlantic.
So, from a mogul perspective, I wouldn’t go there repeatedly every week, though first time was solid skiing. I didn’t explore the rest of the mountain. I might have missed some of the best stuff. Some guys were talking on the lift, and one guy said he already skied 49 days there this year. (I’ve skied 4). He said he was skiing Joe’s run all day (Jim, John?). It’s not on the trail map, and you enter off of Last chance. I didn’t check out any of that stuff, because I figured it would be mostly groomers or thin cover. My feet got cold. First time that’s ever happened looping moguls. To try more natural trails, I would have swapped out skis again. If I skied groomers or swapped out skis, I would have been too cold, and I didn’t have enough time to go in and warm up. I wish I had more time, or it wasn't so cold.
This place is the ultimate local hill. I’m surprised it’s part of Epic. I suppose it came in through Seven Springs? The main problem they have is that the major lower section of the hill is either natural trails, a double black trail, or a green trail. They need to blow snow on all that stuff to the right, and then upgrade to a high speed 6 lift, and they would get a lot of people. They need several solid top to bottom blues, to be commercial. But, maybe that isn’t what they want.
Here is my video: This is mandatory watching for Laurel Hill Crazy.
snapdragon wrote:
Stephen will have an epic mogul report in a few days...send it...yew!
I'm embarrassed to say that I missed almost everything to the left of Wildcat. I didn't even go down upper Wildcat. What did I miss? What was is like over there? Did you see that Joe's run off of Last Chance?
wgo wrote:
Nice write up and vid! Looks similar to when I was there the previous week except the bumps seem to be better defined now. Doing Laurel as a day trip with 9 hours round trip driving is impressive - most i have done round trip for a day of skiing is 8 hrs to blue knob.
Did we talk? That's an incredible memory for skis.
oddballstocks wrote:
Watched your bump video and recognized your skis from this weekend. I rode the lift with you and my boys at one point.It's our "local" hill, living in Pittsburgh. Absolutely love this place. You're dead on about the unknown runs, they are all skiable this year, which is unusual. Glad you were able to get out and enjoy it!!
We didn't, I think we were freezing! The logo was unique on the tips, also a shape you don't see much at LM. I showed the video to my sons and one said "I remember him, he had a Garmin camera on." My son was wearing a GoPro and noticed that.
When we did the skier's left side we generally went through the trees that start where broadway turns from a blue to a green. I think that is Doc's Forest glades? They are on older trail maps. And then a few turns in the trees near the intersection of Hegan's cut and lower broadway. I am sure there is much (much!) that we missed.
Stephen wrote:
I'm embarrassed to say that I missed almost everything to the left of Wildcat. I didn't even go down upper Wildcat. What did I miss? What was is like over there? Did you see that Joe's run off of Last Chance?
wgo wrote:
Nice write up and vid! Looks similar to when I was there the previous week except the bumps seem to be better defined now. Doing Laurel as a day trip with 9 hours round trip driving is impressive - most i have done round trip for a day of skiing is 8 hrs to blue knob.
You guys are very observant. It is a Garmin. A lot of people on the lift asked me where I normally ski, and I kept saying, "Massanutten".
oddballstocks wrote:
We didn't, I think we were freezing! The logo was unique on the tips, also a shape you don't see much at LM. I showed the video to my sons and one said "I remember him, he had a Garmin camera on." My son was wearing a GoPro and noticed that.
Laurel Hill Crazie, I just got off the phone with DCSKI, and they said they will revoke your name unless you comment on my trip report. Add some veteran context to my one time experience.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
I sent this reply to wgo: Conditions should be good. There was no rain/sleet during last weekend's storm. The natural snow terrain is marked closed on the early morning report but they should open 100% of the mountain after the patrol does their thing. The entire skiers right side of the mountain is in bumps that are not frozen Ice. Oh, wait, there was one trail closed and it's not on the map, the lower lift line is skied off.
Stephen wrote:
Laurel Hill Crazie, I just got off the phone with DCSKI, and they said they will revoke your name unless you comment on my trip report. Add some veteran context to my one time experience.
😂
I gave it high praise, "about the best skiing in the mid Atlantic". I had such a good time skiing the moguls that I didn't want to do anything else, but Laurel's strengths are in other areas. It's a pretty cool place. I would love to live near it.
I was thinking that if they put the moguls on the other side of the trail, the snow pack would counteract the fall line instead of compounding it. Also there would be a bigger base over there by the snow guns that would let the bumps last longer.
If a big resort only had a sliver of moguls, and the ski patrol blocked the lines all day, I'd be pissed. If the ski patrol needs to hog the moguls on the weekend, then obviously the resort needs more bumps. But, I think Laurel has a lot of bumps for its size, and we were all making good use of it, including the ski patrol.
But, who cares what I think? I'm not a ski resort reviewer. I'm just trying to have some honest conversations about skiing in the D.C. area for all our benefit.
A dark coincidence occurred to me today. I killed a wildcat on my way to ski Wildcat.
imp wrote:
As legal consul for the LHC, great review patrol has your picture
Stephen wrote:
Laurel Hill Crazie, I just got off the phone with DCSKI, and they said they will revoke your name unless you comment on my trip report. Add some veteran context to my one time experience.
LOL, now Scott calling me out too? I was just catching up on this thread. I'm currently in coastal Maine visiting friends and day tripping to nearby NH resorts on the Epic pass. First let me say sorry for your accident hitting the bobcat. I enjoyed your TR and video and admire your bump skiing. I was never great in bumps and at age 71, I'm not getting much better. I've not skied the Wildcat bumps but I have skied the bumps on Laurel Run last week, which are al natural and a lot less steep. I know the patrol drills can feel like a nuisance but this is serious training that demands serious terrain. Those red jackets out there are training for you, not for their thrills...unlike last week when those ski instructors were training for their PSIA Level 3 exams. They were just cluttering up the slopes. :~D. Seriously though, both groups were there because of Laurel's terrain. The PSIA candidate/examiner I talked to in the lodge cited Lower Wildcat as the reason they could train there.
As for the conversation in the disorganized lift corral, did you not hear the irony in the inflection? By your own observation, it wasn't busy at all. There is a laid back vibe that infects people then they tend to hang around the lift corral and socialize and gape at Lower. That dude in the singles line, I find it hard to believe he was a local. The true locals would say sorry more times than a Canadian then thanked you for coming to visit our mountain. That dude must have been from Colorado or Seven Springs ;~. Yes, Vail got Laurel when they bought Seven Springs but they didn't buy our soul lol. In reality, local management has been an excellent steward of Laurel Mountain, which is state park. The chairlift and snowmaking is owned by the state.
You can ski a true fall line on Lower but not a bump line. Stay skier's far left until it gets steep then pick a line that goes under the lift. I don't know why they stopped sculpting bumps where they did, but at that point where the trees end is thin machine made and a wide swath of natural cover that might bump up if it doesn't melt first and we get more snow.
I agree about the need to expand snowmaking to the entire right side of the mountain but, as noted, state owned and some tax payer groups think its a waste of several million $. There is also a water issue as in not enough. As to the need for a high speed 6. Count the people in the lift corral, no multi million dollar detachable needed.
I swear they blow snow into the parking lot just to create that winter experience for the tourist.
I never heard of this Joe's
When that guy went back to Colorado, he probably complained on Denver Ski about how Laurel locals (me) pressured him to move along.
My boots don’t have swappable bottom toe plates, so I put on sole protectors when I walk in parking lots. It makes the walk more comfortable, I’m less likely to slip, and it protects the boots. I don’t like dealing with them on the hill when it’s cold though. That Laurel parking lot was perfect. With the snow cover I can walk without wearing out the boots, plus the distance was very close in the first place. It’s also such a great winter vibe, like you say. Something I’ve noticed is that when conditions are great, my boots come back clean, because the parking lot is snow instead of mud.
If you haven’t heard of Joe’s run, then I really missed out on a rare opportunity. I should have checked it out, but the moguls were too good.
Thanks for the response.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
Stephen wrote:
Laurel Hill Crazie, I just got off the phone with DCSKI, and they said they will revoke your name unless you comment on my trip report. Add some veteran context to my one time experience.
LOL, now Scott calling me out too? I was just catching up on this thread. I'm currently in coastal Maine visiting friends and day tripping to nearby NH resorts on the Epic pass. First let me say sorry for your accident hitting the bobcat. I enjoyed your TR and video and admire your bump skiing. I was never great in bumps and at age 71, I'm not getting much better. I've not skied the Wildcat bumps but I have skied the bumps on Laurel Run last week, which are al natural and a lot less steep. I know the patrol drills can feel like a nuisance but this is serious training that demands serious terrain. Those red jackets out there are training for you, not for their thrills...unlike last week when those ski instructors were training for their PSIA Level 3 exams. They were just cluttering up the slopes. :~D. Seriously though, both groups were there because of Laurel's terrain. The PSIA candidate/examiner I talked to in the lodge cited Lower Wildcat as the reason they could train there.
As for the conversation in the disorganized lift corral, did you not hear the irony in the inflection? By your own observation, it wasn't busy at all. There is a laid back vibe that infects people then they tend to hang around the lift corral and socialize and gape at Lower. That dude in the singles line, I find it hard to believe he was a local. The true locals would say sorry more times than a Canadian then thanked you for coming to visit our mountain. That dude must have been from Colorado or Seven Springs ;~. Yes, Vail got Laurel when they bought Seven Springs but they didn't buy our soul lol. In reality, local management has been an excellent steward of Laurel Mountain, which is state park. The chairlift and snowmaking is owned by the state.
You can ski a true fall line on Lower but not a bump line. Stay skier's far left until it gets steep then pick a line that goes under the lift. I don't know why they stopped sculpting bumps where they did, but at that point where the trees end is thin machine made and a wide swath of natural cover that might bump up if it doesn't melt first and we get more snow.
I agree about the need to expand snowmaking to the entire right side of the mountain but, as noted, state owned and some tax payer groups think its a waste of several million $. There is also a water issue as in not enough. As to the need for a high speed 6. Count the people in the lift corral, no multi million dollar detachable needed.
I swear they blow snow into the parking lot just to create that winter experience for the tourist.
I never heard of this Joe's
Stephen. So happy you found fun challenge, @Laurel. You've experienced the mountain at its finest. There hasn't been a snow cover like this since maybe 2010 when Laurel was shuttered. In the lift corral, you heard in hushed conversations about Laurel's myths and legends but a local must keep some secrets. Remember the next time you visit, imp is there for you.
Blowing snow into the parking lot... the mound to the left of the lift is enormous, maybe 25ft high now? I wonder what they plan on doing with it.
My kids keep hoping they push it onto Dream Highway, especially the bottom to cover the rocks. Thanks to Dream I'm on the third tune of the year.. this last weekend required a decent amount of ptex.
Re: crowds. There was a tour bus in the parking lot, I have never seen that there. That is a Seven Springs type thing, but exciting to see the word getting out.
See moguls? Please report. Any kind of discussion that follows is great.
TheCrush wrote:
Huh? I don't get this thread. @SuicideSix wanna jump in here?
That's right. The timing was pretty good. I had fun skiing some great moguls. It was a unique experience for me in our area that had a big mountain feel. It's unlikely it would have worked out so well without people giving effort to post. So, I owe you another thanks for keeping me informed about the conditions, so that I was able to time the trip right. I had some setbacks that day, but overall I feel like it was a great day of skiing. So far this thread's been working out pretty well for me. I hope other people get use out of it as well.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
Stephen. So happy you found fun challenge, @Laurel. You've experienced the mountain at its finest. There hasn't been a snow cover like this since maybe 2010 when Laurel was shuttered. In the lift corral, you heard in hushed conversations about Laurel's myths and legends but a local must keep some secrets. Remember the next time you visit, imp is there for you.
wgo wrote:
Mak Attack at massanutten did indeed have a nice line of bumps tonight.
I liked the bumps on Upper MakAttack a lot more than those on the upper section of No Hess on Saturday, Feb. 14. No Hess didn't open until mid-morning because it was so slick first thing in the morning. I enjoy soft bumps, not bumps with any visible ice. Learned to ski bumps out west. I avoid them on the rare occasion I ski in the northeast.
I'm going to try to get up there this week. We've finally reached spring skiing where things should soften up. Got to get it while it's good.
marzNC wrote:
wgo wrote:
Mak Attack at massanutten did indeed have a nice line of bumps tonight.I liked the bumps on Upper MakAttack a lot more than those on the upper section of No Hess on Saturday, Feb. 14. No Hess didn't open until mid-morning because it was so slick first thing in the morning. I enjoy soft bumps, not bumps with any visible ice. Learned to ski bumps out west. I avoid them on the rare occasion I ski in the northeast.
While patrolling yesterday I had someone bitching to me about the bumps on Lower Wildcat, told me we should mark them with bamboo so people tearing over the headwall know they are there (his words, not mine)........
Here is an alternative plan. Maybe before you go 35 mph over the headwall of a double black diamond slope you are not familiar with, stop and actually look where you are going.
Agreed, 100%. In my assessment over the years, there's been a conflict of interests about bumps around here. There are a few people that reach out to resorts to advocate for more bumps, but I think there are a lot more people that complain about them. I've accepted that there are probably more people complaining about the bumps than complaining about not enough bumps. Therefore I accept that there may only be one bump run at a resort. But, what really pisses me off, and I've heard it, is when people complain about that one bump run. They demand no bumps on the entire mountain, and it seems a number of resorts oblige. Out west in many places, the majority of acres are bumps, but yet some people can't seem to make space for one bump run around here. Can you imagine if they had to mark every bump run out west that interfaced with groomed runs? It's ignorance and selfishness.
Some argue that very few people want bumps, but in general, I see them heavily used. Also, for many intermediate skiers, they may not want to ski bumps all day, but they want to try it once or twice, and they will pick a resort that has those options, maybe sometimes subconsciously just through reputation. I've seen it a lot over the years, where a place gets a reputation of being too easy, and people don't want to go there.
Patf1engineer wrote:
While patrolling yesterday I had someone bitching to me about the bumps on Lower Wildcat, told me we should mark them with bamboo so people tearing over the headwall know they are there (his words, not mine)........
Here is an alternative plan. Maybe before you go 35 mph over the headwall of a double black diamond slope you are not familiar with, stop and actually look where you are going.
I am not a bump person, but I think the setup on Lower Wildcat now is good. It covers maybe a quarter of the width of the slope right below the top headwall and extends a couple hundred feet down slope. They can be easily avoided by anyone with enough skill to be on that slope (that is another story) without a problem.
Stephen wrote:
Agreed, 100%. In my assessment over the years, there's been a conflict of interests about bumps around here. There are a few people that reach out to resorts to advocate for more bumps, but I think there are a lot more people that complain about them. I've accepted that there are probably more people complaining about the bumps than complaining about not enough bumps. Therefore I accept that there may only be one bump run at a resort. But, what really pisses me off, and I've heard it, is when people complain about that one bump run. They demand no bumps on the entire mountain, and it seems a number of resorts oblige. Out west in many places, the majority of acres are bumps, but yet some people can't seem to make space for one bump run around here. Can you imagine if they had to mark every bump run out west that interfaced with groomed runs? It's ignorance and selfishness.
Some argue that very few people want bumps, but in general, I see them heavily used. Also, for many intermediate skiers, they may not want to ski bumps all day, but they want to try it once or twice, and they will pick a resort that has those options, maybe sometimes subconsciously just through reputation. I've seen it a lot over the years, where a place gets a reputation of being too easy, and people don't want to go there.
Patf1engineer wrote:
While patrolling yesterday I had someone bitching to me about the bumps on Lower Wildcat, told me we should mark them with bamboo so people tearing over the headwall know they are there (his words, not mine)........
Here is an alternative plan. Maybe before you go 35 mph over the headwall of a double black diamond slope you are not familiar with, stop and actually look where you are going.
Last Sunday, they were great. If the person is so worried about avoiding a bump that they can't see, why aren't they worried about avoiding a person that has fallen on the slope that they can't see when tearing over the headwall? It's just a stupid person with an idiotic idea not realizing the thousand other things besides the bumps that could create a problem when tearing over or around a blind curve.
Patf1engineer wrote:
I am not a bump person, but I think the setup on Lower Wildcat now is good. It covers maybe a quarter of the width of the slope right below the top headwall and extends a couple hundred feet down slope. They can be easily avoided by anyone with enough skill to be on that slope (that is another story) without a problem.
Stephen wrote:
Agreed, 100%. In my assessment over the years, there's been a conflict of interests about bumps around here. There are a few people that reach out to resorts to advocate for more bumps, but I think there are a lot more people that complain about them. I've accepted that there are probably more people complaining about the bumps than complaining about not enough bumps. Therefore I accept that there may only be one bump run at a resort. But, what really pisses me off, and I've heard it, is when people complain about that one bump run. They demand no bumps on the entire mountain, and it seems a number of resorts oblige. Out west in many places, the majority of acres are bumps, but yet some people can't seem to make space for one bump run around here. Can you imagine if they had to mark every bump run out west that interfaced with groomed runs? It's ignorance and selfishness.
Some argue that very few people want bumps, but in general, I see them heavily used. Also, for many intermediate skiers, they may not want to ski bumps all day, but they want to try it once or twice, and they will pick a resort that has those options, maybe sometimes subconsciously just through reputation. I've seen it a lot over the years, where a place gets a reputation of being too easy, and people don't want to go there.
Patf1engineer wrote:
While patrolling yesterday I had someone bitching to me about the bumps on Lower Wildcat, told me we should mark them with bamboo so people tearing over the headwall know they are there (his words, not mine)........
Here is an alternative plan. Maybe before you go 35 mph over the headwall of a double black diamond slope you are not familiar with, stop and actually look where you are going.
Good soft well formed but not absurd bumps on goosebumps at 7springs.
Also a couple of other areas along the front side. Pretty much bumpers paradise this week.
Enjoy it while it lasts. Snowmaking hoses already disconnected on many poles at 7s, and the base is thin thin thin!!!
If they remain open after this weekend I'd be surprised. Smallest base that I ever recall.
That's crazy to have such a thin base after all that cold weather. Management problem or water problem...
Grumpy dad wrote:
Good soft well formed but not absurd bumps on goosebumps at 7springs.
Also a couple of other areas along the front side. Pretty much bumpers paradise this week.
Enjoy it while it lasts. Snowmaking hoses already disconnected on many poles at 7s, and the base is thin thin thin!!!
If they remain open after this weekend I'd be surprised. Smallest base that I ever recall.
I bought a pair of Fischer RC4 Noize skis. Very pricey. I had several objectives. Do high edge angle carving on the groomed, have better edge grip for those icy Whitetail bumps from a few weeks ago, get faster response and better carving in the bumps, and be able to keep up with friends that ski fast and turn very little. The last objective is why I didn't get a pure SL ski. The Noize is a better ski than the Idone for getting up on edge and locking in a fast, stable arc. Besides that, the ski is substantially worse than the Idone in every way. For any type of skiing that isn't using fairly high edge angles, the ski has worse edge grip, worse carving, and worse response time. I did sharpen my mogul skis since that Whitetail trip, and that's the most I could have done, except maybe bought the SG Idone model. This was an expensive experiment. So, I’m only left with using the Fischer to ski high edge angles. If I get a season pass close by one year, and there are no moguls, maybe I'll have more fun going up to catch the morning corduroy.
I did research this a little before I bought it. Unfortunately I used AI. I asked AI to rank a bunch of skis by edge grip. It ranked my mogul ski as a 4 out of 10, and ranked the Atomic SL ski as a 9 out of 10. Then it ranked the Noize as an 8.5 out of 10. AI only repeats what other people say. That's its training. So, this means that most people don't know, like I didn't. There's a difference between edge grip in a high edge angle arc and edge grip in a low edge angle scrape in the bumps. The physics is different, and a ski good at one doesn't mean it will be the best at the other. Both take a stiff ski with good torsional stiffness, but the sidecut helps with good grip in short radius high edge angle turns, whereas it hurts edge grip at low edge angles, because there's too much torque.
For interest, in the off-season there is also a fun summer mogul scene at the Big Snow indoor place in New Jersey. They set up indoor moguls about one weekend per month usually from May to November and lots of bump skiers from all around show up to hang out :)
Here are a few pics for fun.
I was just thinking about indoor skiing yesterday. I've never been, but I was thinking they don't have the freeze/thaw cycle. How's the snow?
My next attempt at mid Atlantic skiing will be to get up to Liberty. Though, I have an out west trip shaping up that would push Liberty out to March, and we'll see what March brings.
SuicideSix wrote:
For interest, in the off-season there is also a fun summer mogul scene at the Big Snow indoor place in New Jersey. They set up indoor moguls about one weekend per month usually from May to November and lots of bump skiers from all around show up to hang out :)
Here are a few pics for fun.
Big Snow is very fun for what it is. They keep the temp at 28F year-round, very dry humidity, no freeze/thaw. You need to dress for full winter when you ski there.
The snow is decent - slightly slow. It stays loose and doesn't freeze up. The mogul lines get plenty of traffic which makes the snow loose and fun on the bumps.
With constant traffic on just a few mogul lines, the gang usually does a group Slip about once every 2 hours (everybody sideslipping down the whole line and pushing the thrown snow back into the troughs). This restores the mogul shapes to symmetrical and makes the lines soft & nice again. This is the same Slip that peeps do at mogul camps and freestyle team practices at middle & end of day.
The slope is moderate to low angle so the moguls are not hugely challenging. But it is a really great place to come and work on mogul technique fundamentals like Forward body position, Early Turn, Knee Roll, Squaring, Absorption Pull, Quiet Hands, etc. The opportunity to keep working on this stuff over the summer is very useful.
The mogul posse hangout experience is totally authentic. Age ranges of 7 to 70+, all kinds of skill levels from total mogul beginners, to intermediates, adult recreational bumpers, current Noram and World Cup competitors, and the occasional retired World Champion (pic 2 above ^^^) :)
Wait, what?
SuicideSix wrote:
current Noram and World Cup competitors, and the occasional retired World Champion (pic 2 above ^^^) :)
I haven't been back to Whitetail for a few weeks, but they look hardy on the web cam.
tkski wrote:
How are the moguls at whitetail holding up after the storm?
wgo wrote:
Wait, what?
SuicideSix wrote:
current Noram and World Cup competitors, and the occasional retired World Champion (pic 2 above ^^^) :)
The skier in Pic 2 above ^^^ is PA Rousseau, 2007 Mogul World Champion. He comes by Big Snow occasionally to hang out with da mogul posse.
Stephen wrote:
See moguls? Please report. Any kind of discussion that follows is great.
Hiya Stephen, def think about coming to Liberty to hang out with the mogul posse next week. We are watching the weather forecast, but generally thinking of Thurs + Fri March 5+6. The groups tend to run 15-30+ mogul skiers cycling thru over a couple of days. We'd love to meet ya! All ages from 7-70+, all ability levels from total beginners to Bear Mtn competitors. Peeps on all kinds of skis from all-mtns to of course lots of Rossi's, Factions & IDOnes :)
Thanks! I want to come. I don't know if my work schedule will cooperate, and I won't know until last minute if I can get away, but I'll come if I can.
SuicideSix wrote:
Stephen wrote:
See moguls? Please report. Any kind of discussion that follows is great.
Hiya Stephen, def think about coming to Liberty to hang out with the mogul posse next week. We are watching the weather forecast, but generally thinking of Thurs + Fri March 5+6. The groups tend to run 15-30+ mogul skiers cycling thru over a couple of days. We'd love to meet ya! All ages from 7-70+, all ability levels from total beginners to Bear Mtn competitors. Peeps on all kinds of skis from all-mtns to of course lots of Rossi's, Factions & IDOnes :)
Even though we've had incredible snowmaking weather, this has been a tough season for me in the mid-Atlantic, between damaging my car driving to Laurel, sheets of ice at Whitetail, and poorly seeded bumps at Massanutten. Last Sunday, I went to Beaver Creek. It had been 20+ years since I'd been there. I couldn't remember anything about it except that I liked it. Now I know why I remembered liking it. Moguls everywhere. On one hand, seeing all those moguls made me feel like my intense efforts at finding mid-Atlantic bumps is inconsequential, on the other hand I was in great shape and had a much better day, because I've been skiing here. Here's a video. I was skiing with a non-mogul skier, so I was catching patches where I could. That was one thing I loved about Beaver Creek. There were patches everywhere, so I didn't have to split off to find bumps. The conditions were amazing, but looking back at the videos, I see some ice. After the season of ice I've had here, I hardly noticed it while skiing. There was also some thin cover in a few places, especially for late February, but it was a fantastic day of skiing.
Skiing moguls at Beaver Creek
Twenty+ years ago I skied at Vail and Beaver Creek. I remember thinking it was good skiing, but the parking was a pain, and I never went back. Vail and Beaver Creek are supposed to be the most luxurious places to ski, but I think terrible parking is about the least luxurious experience. I suppose it's luxurious if you stay on the mountain, and they probably make the day parking uncomfortable to keep out the riffraff like me. They've been successful and will continue to be successful with that. Though, since we have a pass we may bite the bullet and go to Vail at least once. I've just always thought that there are more comfortable, beautiful places with better skiing for a lot less money, so I haven't felt any need to go there. But, since we never go there, we're exploring new places with the Epic pass. This was two days after a storm. The day before was a bluebird Saturday, and some locals on the lift said they drove up that day and couldn't find parking and went home.
Liberty Mogul Skiing.
It was my highest priority to get to Liberty while there are moguls and while I have a pass. I wasn’t sure if it would work out later, but I could make it today, so I went.
I didn’t see a mogul posse, probably because they know the weekend is crazy. Never again will I go there on a weekend, but it was a good day of mogul skiing.
Here are a couple of thoughts:
I usually ski around here until places close, then I go out west. This year, because of work schedules and the Epic pass, we’ve been going out west earlier. It’s so weird to go from Beaver Creek one Sunday to Liberty the next Sunday. In some ways it’s depressing, but I’m ok with it.
I’ve never walked so far from the car to the lifts in my life. A sea of cars in a parking lot. It has a vibe like Water County USA. That sea of cars translated into the most amount of traffic I’ve ever skied with in my life, both in and out of the moguls. I couldn’t get an uninterrupted run in the morning, but things got better later. Usually, I wait until bump lines clear out, but there was no waiting, because someone else would jump right in front of me. Of course they don’t get it. Soooo many kids! So, I skied around them and got a lot better at it. One eye on them, one eye on the moguls, predicting where they will go and which way will be the clearest…. The lift lines were not bad at all, but they have two quads right next to each other dumping 8 skiers per load onto not that many trails. Amazingly, many of those trails had moguls, and people ski it.
Directions from DC: Head northwest until you hit the first hill. I think that's why it's so crowded.
It was a pretty intense day of mogul skiing. The three double blacks all had moguls, and it was steeper than I expected and much longer than I expected. It’s good practice and fun. Maybe the snowpack made it steeper. When you get off the lift you have to skate up the hill to the top of the slope EVERY SINGLE TIME. I don’t know if they planned it that way, or it’s just because they have so much snow built up at the top. Upper Eastwind was pretty cut up and irregular in the middle. It was the most difficult.
I actually burned out on Lower Eastwind after a couple of hours. I got mentally tired, though I seem to be in pretty good physical shape. I was hoping to get physically tired, so that I could have an excuse to stop hard charging, but I just never got tired. I skied just about all day with no lunch. But, I eventually lost the will to rip on Lower Eastwind, though I kept on going with the double blacks. My skis were too long for what I was trying to do on the double blacks, 182cm. My tails would hit the bump behind me.
There was so much traffic that the groomed runs bumped up by the end of the day. It would have been so much fun, especially as a break from the heavily bumped up Lower Eastwind, except it was impossible to get a line on those slopes without people in it. But, if all those people weren’t there it wouldn’t have bumped up in the first place.
Here’s the video. The bumps don’t come across very well on the video, but it was pretty intense and much more difficult than it looks. It’s definitely one of the best places to get bumps around here these days. Though, Lower Eastwind is not very steep at all, and the double blacks are a little bit too steep. There’s nothing in between, so Whitetail hits that sweet spot a little bit better, though I’m most interested in practicing on steeper runs, and that was great today.
