I'm concerned about the delay in opening terrain but it is deeper than not having terrain open for my pleasure. If they are behind in getting terrain open, it might be due to a decision to not rent as many compressors early in the season. If that is the case then I'm afraid that the decision not to pour money into early season skiing is based on declining revenues because of the bad seasons we've had for a couple of years. We had a few windows of good snowmaking but really it has started to feel the same as last year, a shoot of arctic cold then a rainy warm up that flushes thousands of dollars of snowmaking effort down the mountain. Apart from the weather I also fear that our sport is in decline at least regionally. I haven't looked at the numbers but it would not surprise me based on purely subjective observation.
Another thing that does not help with the public image is local weather forecaster's fixation on reporting windchill factors before they even say the actual air temperatures. Just last night a local station began its weather segment with a map full of negative zero temperatures and then the lead line is that its going to feel like -6 tonight because of windchill factor. Really, a temporary chill at the strongest projected wind speed will momentarily feel like -6 on exposed skin and that is the big weather news. Forecasters are not even calling this windchill, they are calling it "feels like temperatures". I call it fake news, to use a popular political polemic. Celebrating unusually warm winter weather, although a natural inclination for most, doesn't help either.
Sorry for the rant.
msprings wrote:
A little disappointed with the lack of open terrain. Only part of Avalnche and North Face are open. No Giant Steps, Gunner, Yodelar, Alpine, or Goosebumps. It's cold out, get the terrain open. Also, I'll be skiing at 7 Spring tomorrow 12/27. If anyone wants to meet up, PM me.
89 beans for 12 open trails has me on the sidelines this week. I'd really like to get out on Friday but I can't justify paying these holiday rates for so little terrain.
How many season passes did LM sell this year? At HV, no need for compressors since HV's system is airless. They have made a ton of snow. That said, crowds have been light. But conditions are quite good.
As far as the decline of the industry, the constant image of the extreme skier cascading down steep terrain always intidates the non skier. Also, no effort what so ever to lure the largest growing segment of the population, minorities. Ad to that the non-participant Millenials, staring at their IPhones incessantly and you get an industry not keeping up with changing demographics. And of course, $89 to ski for a day puts the sport out of reach for many. The weather people trying to sell advertising with weather exaggerations does not help either.
Blue Don 1982 wrote:
89 beans for 12 open trails has me on the sidelines this week. I'd really like to get out on Friday but I can't justify paying these holiday rates for so little terrain.
I do not understand the business model that excessively rewards season pass holders and penalizes walk up pass buyers. Seems to be a sure way to discourage new participants.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
Blue Don 1982 wrote:
89 beans for 12 open trails has me on the sidelines this week. I'd really like to get out on Friday but I can't justify paying these holiday rates for so little terrain.
I do not understand the business model that excessively rewards season pass holders and penalizes walk up pass buyers. Seems to be a sure way to discourage new participants.
What I don't understand are new participants who pay for a lift ticket and rental gear, but don't bother to get the package deal that essentially includes a beginner lesson for free. But then I also don't quite understand the families who drive from FL annually for a ski weekend in NC or WV who have no intention of doing any other skiing/boarding.
snowsmith wrote:
Ad to that the non-participant Millenials, staring at their IPhones incessantly and you get an industry not keeping up with changing demographics. And of course, $89 to ski for a day puts the sport out of reach for many. The weather people trying to sell advertising with weather exaggerations does not help either.
Blaming this on millennial is ridiculous. Most people in their 20s don’t have $90 lying around to ski on ice on 12 trails and will save the money for when the conditions almost justify the price. If you want to see milinenialls on the slopes go to Snowshoe for ballhooter spring break or liberty/whitetail on college nights.
Plus right now whitetail has more terrain, more veritical, and imo a better learning program and is cheaper than 7 springs.
the emphasis on low season pass prices is to sell real estate.
a season pass should cost 10 times the daily weekend rate! low day ticket prices will bring more beginners.
more beginners will eventualy bring the condo sales if we get a growing skier base!
Blue Knob remains remarkably afforable for improptu visits. Window lift ticket prices are something like high $40s on holidays/weekends and mid $20s on regular mid-week days.
imp wrote:
the emphasis on low season pass prices is to sell real estate.
a season pass should cost 10 times the daily weekend rate! low day ticket prices will bring more beginners.
more beginners will eventualy bring the condo sales if we get a growing skier base!
I would say the emphasis on season passes is to fill real estate more than sell it. Fill the beds, the restaurants, and the stores. I would think most sales of real-estate at mid atlantic ski resorts is from one private party to another, not from the developer to the private owner.
Blue Don 1982 wrote:
89 beans for 12 open trails has me on the sidelines this week. I'd really like to get out on Friday but I can't justify paying these holiday rates for so little terrain.
I had to pick up my daughter from school last Friday and wanted to take the family skiing and riding at 7Springs, but I too couldn't justify spending over $600 on lift tickets to ski 12 trails. I guess at $89/ticket (or $84 Reg season) keeps all those pesty non-season passholders from using up all the snow.
7Springs also considers Fridays a "weekend day" during the regular season.
rbrtlav wrote:
snowsmith wrote:
Ad to that the non-participant Millenials, staring at their IPhones incessantly and you get an industry not keeping up with changing demographics. And of course, $89 to ski for a day puts the sport out of reach for many. The weather people trying to sell advertising with weather exaggerations does not help either.
Blaming this on millennial is ridiculous. Most people in their 20s don’t have $90 lying around to ski on ice on 12 trails and will save the money for when the conditions almost justify the price. If you want to see milinenialls on the slopes go to Snowshoe for ballhooter spring break or liberty/whitetail on college nights.
Plus right now whitetail has more terrain, more veritical, and imo a better learning program and is cheaper than 7 springs.
We'll, I'm glad you Millenials could put your IPhone down long enough to participate in something. I'd bet if you checked inflation, the price from 'the old days' would be similar as it is today. That said, no one is 'blaming' the Milenials for the downfall of skiing. I blame the industry for not expanding the market.
Blue Don 1982 wrote:
msprings wrote:
A little disappointed with the lack of open terrain. Only part of Avalnche and North Face are open. No Giant Steps, Gunner, Yodelar, Alpine, or Goosebumps. It's cold out, get the terrain open. Also, I'll be skiing at 7 Spring tomorrow 12/27. If anyone wants to meet up, PM me.89 beans for 12 open trails has me on the sidelines this week. I'd really like to get out on Friday but I can't justify paying these holiday rates for so little terrain.
I know you are a SS fan and condo owner, but SS ain't cheap either. But I would have trouble forking out 89 beans to ski anywhere in our beloved Mid-Atlantic. Unfortunately, I am amazed at the snow making resources that are diverted to make the enormous amounts of snow required for these terrain parks to keep the rug rats entertained. I think it drives up the cost of skiing and it does not benefit us old geezer skiers.
snowsmith wrote:
I know you are a SS fan and condo owner, but SS ain't cheap either.
Agreed! 99 bucks walk up rate at SS is insane.
snowsmith wrote:
....Unfortunately, I am amazed at the snow making resources that are diverted to make the enormous amounts of snow required for these terrain parks to keep the rug rats entertained. I think it drives up the cost of skiing and it does not benefit us old geezer skiers.
I dunno. I wonder if I'd still have so many local places to ski if there were no terrain parks, tubing parks, snowboarding, and mtn biking. Those things may have plugged some holes. Now, if they could only plug holes in the atmosphere letting all this cold out
I used to get paid on a commision basis..when I went to a very popular company to get a job they offered me 5% less than the going rate..when I protested they told me...do you want 55% of very low volume or do you want 50% of really high volume?...
The Cold is holding back folks for sure and thats tough because tis the season of enthusiasm..unlike the end of the year powder dumps with empty slopes...but..if they reduced rates they would bring in more revenue imho...
now is the time to be bringing in new skiers..not price them away!..
I do worry about the long term outlook for skiing in this area as overall interest in it for a variety of reasons (cost, snow quality, weather, other things to do, etc.) wanes as the years go by. One thing I've noticed from personal experience is the weekday crowds seem to be getting smaller and smaller (which for me is great as I can go to WT or Liberty on a four hour pass and ski continuosly with no wait for the lifts and get more runs in over the four hour period than I can during a full day anywhere on a weekend). That is why so many restaurants close as they just can't generate the lunch time and weeknight crowds needed even though they are busy on weekends. The other trend that is hurting local resorts is the season seems to be ended so much earlier than it did even 10 years ago. Once March hits in this area people mostly are done with skiiing. I remember many March ski trips to Timberline, Wisp, Canaan Valley, etc.in the 90s with great snow and lively crowds, but now most places close by mid-March even with slopes full of snow because there isn't the skier traffic to justify staying open.
Weekday crowds are fascinating.
At Seven Springs it seems to be mostly retirees out for their weekly trip, a lot of regulators who all have passes.
Snowshoe is packed with families and young people, even mid-week.
I've had a few midweek trips where when I pulled up to the resort I wondered if they were closed because the parking lot was so empty.
In terms of creating interest resorts need to get schools on board again. My wife was a teacher and we helped with the ski club before we had kids. We'd fill two busses to Seven Springs every Saturday. Now that my own kids are a few years away I asked if they still do it. There's nothing now. So that's 75-100 kids who aren't exposed each year.
I grew up in Ohio and was in ski club. Boston Mills was mobbed with kids on Saturday morning. We'd be waiting 15-20m to ride a slow lift because it was so packed. But as a kid I didn't care. I was with friends, and the place was packed with skiers of the opposite sex. To a 8th grader standing in line and flirting for 15m was worth it for the 150ft of vertical. The resort also included lessons with ski club. From that I know a number of strong lifelong skiers.
Use dynamic pricing model. There are many reasons why people don't go to a resort and enjoy any wintersports. As we all mentioned its price = available slopes/parks. Working as a ski resort consultant, two items I see around the world is: No creativity and management who only manage by numbers and don't see the long benefit of a more dynamic price model & creative managment team. The dynamic price model is becoming more popular in international destinations. To explain it in the simplest form: the earlier you pay the more % you get off the regular rate. If you walk up to a ticket window and they only sold 30% of the daily target you will still save a lot, etc. Another item is creativity. Many local resorts are lacking on creativity. I could point out many resorts in the world who deal with the very same issues as we do here. This is a global issue and not just a local one. I just don't believe that any local resorts looking for more creative ways to lower the entry fee and for that matter for any one. Pay how long you ski or per lift ride. Sale a hour ticket (need RFID) etc. If you have only two slopes open and can ski the entire mtn in 2hours than adjust the rate by 70% if you have only 30% open, etc. There are many solutions out there but someone has to be motivated to do the right thing before its too late. Regarding snowmaking: Many resorts use newer snowmaking technology and the water vs air is not what it used to be (1:3). The newest HKD for example uses almost 5:1 ratio. I guess the issue is at the water pumps and not air.
Just my two cents.
2 cents worth a few bucks!....
.Im all for more interesting features on the mountain...more courses....instead of just flying down White lightning at TL at rocket speeds for a thrill with the only other option being to let one side bump up ...dipping in the woods which is rare in our neck of the woods...or to just let your imagination dictate your turns..all fine..but what about moving past those age old runs and start getting more modern and creative...move some earth in the summer..build some structures..give us that stomach in the throat feel instead of a steady flat falline run....make our smaller mountains feel much larger!...Whales at Timberline were a hint of this evolution..Expand with some really creative thinking...Lets Make skiing Great again!!
Dynamic pricing makes lots of sense. There is definitely a sweat spot between price and attendence, and either they can try to determine that on a seasonal basis which has lots of variables that could throw off the assumptions, or go with dynamic pricing and have it adjusted in real time.
Beyond that, there are definitely more creative things that can be done. Years ago I had been lured to Massanutten for the first time because they were offering free lift tickets if you would take an hour and go through a real estate presentation of their condos. Granted most people like me were not going to buy the condo, but it did get exposure for them, drives more resturaunt and rental sales, and ultimitely cost them nothing other then the time of the realtor addressing a group of people. Also, based on that experience I retured to the resort several times and did a weekend rental there, and am sure that some % did invest. However, it takes a creative holistic approach looking at the skiing operation, food, lodging, and real estate.
Believe 7S and HV would benefit from coordinating some winter bus scheduels to pick up people in DC, Baltinore, and Pittsburgh and take them there. Especialy if they did it for free or a very low cost, with their extensive lodging and food service they are in an ideal position to benefit from the captive audience once there, much more than places like Whitetail or Deep Creek that do not have the level of infrastructure.
I think you're right, SwissMountain. There is room for more creativity. Overall, the ski product and pricing strategies haven't changed all that much in the Mid-Atlantic. Efforts like the Snowpass Program (which provides free skiing to fourth and fifth graders) are a good start but there is so much more that could be done. Lots of interesting opportunities for gamification which could entice new skiers and boarders and increase their visits. For example, I know some resorts outside the Mid-Atlantic use RFID lift passes to track vertical/activity on the mountain and make that data available on-line to the guests. In addition to tapping into the natural competitive spirit of people, there could be prizes awarded (such as a free group lesson) when certain levels are reached. Some of the local trade associations (such as the Pennsylvania Ski Areas Association) could also offer incentives, such as providing a free t-shirt to anyone who spends at least 6 ski days at 6 different ski areas during a season in PA, for example.
I am surprised that Snowshoe has not gotten more positive mention for thinking creatively. There Is the ridiculous season pass for a little more than $200 and this year with an adult pass holder a child under age 13 gets a free pass. Hello ski school customers! I wonder how many new skiers have been brought into a love of slope sports because of this program. Benefits the sport, benefits the resort!!! Benefits the customer!
MorganB
SwissMountain wrote:
Use dynamic pricing model. . . .
Jiminy Peak is definitely doing that with online tickets. I was thinking of skiing there on Monday, 12/18. Two weeks before the date, an 8-hr ticket was $40. The day before, the price was $71, a discount of $1 over the window rate of $72. I didn't buy a ticket in advance because I was hoping Berkshire East would be open, which turned out to be the case. Window rate was $48.
Liftopia is essentially dynamic pricing for those places that sell tickets that way.
Colonel - don’t know the # for SS but I am sure their season pass sale went up. Every resort we work for that use such a strategy knows what they are doing. As SS is Part of a bigger company that uses to some degree a dynamic Model can see a significant increase in sales. One resort lowered their season passes from €850 to €199...soled over 77,000 Passes. There is more to that model because just lowering your passes would not be a smart move like resorts tried to do in the past. One thing that holds resort back to offer more incentives is the ticketing system. There are limitations if you still sell a paper ticket but not impossible. Creativity goes a long way and we need to remember just as many of you mentioned - many Resorts in our area are breeder and feeder resorts. If you miss 30 kids per school that can be 90 down the road. FIS has a great program but don’t see any local resort doing it. Too many resorts price them self out of the market. Unfortunately, they feel if they don’t move the price up year after year of a product & service they are not dynamic...It’s a shame that ridding our mtn became an elite sport. Some resort are trying to change the course of our industry but for many regions it will not be enough considering that skiing is optional and becomes less of a tradition to many local families.
Im trying to figure out how a cheap season pass works for a place like SS which is in the middle of nowhere....Marketing gimmick?
I love the Not advertised midweek specials Canaan ski area has...being State owned they look after the locals...its the only way I can get discounted skiing since I live 15 hours away so a season pass doesnt work...
Reducing Season pass cost is only part of the solution, this still needs to be looked at over a longer time but many resorts register higher profits by lowering the cost. Some resorts offer $100 passes. Many progressive resorts use a point system and other creative ways to add value such as a family pass for $85. I do agree that a more dynamic pricing structure to reward day riders. Operating costs do increase year after year but many operators do little to find ways to reduce cost but rather increase the window rate.
Massanutten stays under the radar for many people because they remember Mnut as it was more than 10 years ago. Mnut was one of the first places in the southeast to implement 4-hr/8-hr lift tickets. Helped a lot to ease the crowding on weekend mornings when newbies didn't feel the need to get up early to arrive at 9am or commit to a full day. Also the first to have conveyor loading for beginner lifts. It's been a slow and steady upgrade process in the decade, but fewer people laugh when I tell them that Mnut is my home mountain these days.
Here's what Massanutten has going for early January 2018:
Monday Night Madness of the season - $20 slope-use ticket, $20 rental, and a Free Beginner lesson. EAUS will be in the lodge collecting can foods. Night session tickets go on sale at 3:45 pm. Beginner lessons start at 5:00 pm & 6:00 pm. Bonus Special - We have extended our College Days Special for the whole week of Jan 1 - Jan 5. Show your College ID to receive a $40 8-hour slope-use ticket and $20 rental.
Monday Night Madness has been around for quite a while. My sense is that the smaller places in the southeast and PA are thinking creatively to make their ski area stand out from the resorts like Snowshoe or Camelback or 7Springs. For the most part, the people who ski at places like Montage or Elk or Cataloochee don't spend time posting on online ski forums.
Skied Liberty the last 3 days.
100% open, fresh snow on Saturday, holiday weekend, the 2nd of the "big 4",
zero crowd.
Liberty even shut down one of the lifts on the back because it wasn't needed yesterday.
Too cold maybe? waning interest in skiing?
Can expect zero crowds for next few days. 7S snow report forecast shows Friday with a high of 3 and low of -6. Warmer conditions over at Hidden Valley with a high of 4 and low of -5. Yeah, believe that may have an impact on attendence.
Last year is was too warm around the holidays, now this . I'llI reserve my right to complain about the high cost of lift tickets, but there is no way I would want to be in the ski business.
I would think Sunday and Monday would be tough at non-destination resorts. Even with great conditions, many people have New Year's Eve plans, and many are likely exhausted / hungover New Year's Day.
The weather definitely has an impact for those of us with small kids, too. A 3 y/o's body just isn't designed to withstand those temperatures.
Bob Nutting is a terrible owner for both the pirates and seven springs. The terrain isn't open because he is a cheap a**. All of the gunnar area should have been open by christmas week with the cold temperatures we've had. The best thing that can happen to 7 springs is him selling the place. That won't happen though because he will run it into the ground and at that point nobody will want to buy it.
The P'burgher Nutting bashing gets old after a while. They made a ton of snow at Hiddern Valley. Same at 7Springs. Note how much snow is being made on the terrrain parks. This takes away from snow making efforts on ski terrain. I personnally could care less about terrain parks. But it seems that 7Springs is convinced that they need to keep the snowboarder rug rats happy. They must have made 10 feet of snow for the Hidden Valley terrain park. And they are still making it. No wonder it cost so much to ski. Terrain parks, express lifts, groomers, etc. While it certainly makes the skiing experience better, it costs money. So I am not sure who is being cheap?
Run it into the ground? What are you talking about? They have continually made improvements including 77 new snow guns this year. They are renovating the hotel, they created Foggy Brews, the other restuarants were renovated, etc. If you want to complain, please present some facts to go along with the complaints.
snowsmith wrote:
....... I personnally could care less about terrain parks. But it seems that 7Springs is convinced that they need to keep the snowboarder rug rats happy. ........
Snowsmith,
You are correct about Nutting dumping a lot $ into 7S. 7S seems to get some significant upgrades every year, which is pretty impressive. I do think you are off base on a few of your other comments regarding the need for terrain parks thou.
Terrain parks are huge attraction for both Skiers and Boarders. If fact, my youngest son and his friend’s family skied WT on New Years Eve in lieu of skiing powder with me at CVR because WT had their terrain park open. It also looks like I’ll be skiing WISP this Friday/Saturday in lieu of skiing in the Valley. Why? Because my kids want to hit the park and CVR & TL’s parks aren’t open yet. Groomers may keep the less advanced skiers happy, but ski areas need something more challenging than groomers to attract the younger or more adventurous crowd.
And the Peeps that play in the park are called Park Rats. :)
Sorry SCWVA - us old geezers become a little cynical and resistant to change. I ski for the pure joy, adrenelin and scenic beauty. The powder day we had on 12/29 and 12/30 was all the terrain park I'll ever need. I guess the old geezers before me would have complained about the grooming or those new fangled chair lifts. I need to embrace what ever helps our beloved sport grow and prosper and that is certainly young people. But these new things like terrain parks, groomers, express chair lifts, extensive snow making, super pipes, etc. cost money and thus I assume they increase the cost of the product and the price that the resort owners must charge. Kind of like the cars we have now with air bags, GIS, high end music systems, Bluetooth, power seats, power windows, etc...the cars cost more but we enjoy the amenities.
Emjoy this wonderful winter we are having!
Look for more trails to open soon at 7S.
Bottom Line Bob just traded away the the Pirates best pitcher and best position player in the past few days. Payroll saving in excess of $20MM.
He'll be trucking in snow from Erie and Buffalo with that kind of cash laying around.
Blue Don 1982 wrote:
Look for more trails to open soon at 7S.
Bottom Line Bob just traded away the the Pirates best pitcher and best position player in the past few days. Payroll saving in excess of $20MM.
He'll be trucking in snow from Erie and Buffalo with that kind of cash laying around.
Last year, at the top of the short hike through the Tiger Tale gate at Snowbird, there was a sticker on a patrol sign: “Nuck Futting”
Pirates and Springs Nations travel well, I guess.
At the bottom station of the Gunnar Express Lift, there is a blue sign to the left as soon as you come through the gates that is supposed to say Doppelmayr. For 2 seasons, it was covered by a large blue sticker that said "Nuck Bob Futting"
There is an enormous amount of snow making resources that are diverted for these freakin's terrain parks. And 7S has 4 of them along with the super pipe. It's no longer good enough for the younger generation to just ski down a slope....boring! They need something more exciting, thus terrrain parks. They made snow to build these terrain features almost non-stop.
I know you P'burghers love to hate Nutting. But he is not the CEO of the ski operations, Eric Mauch is. I am sure he makes the day to day decisions. He has been described as a backward thinking bean counter, but I must say they make a strong commitment at HV to provide a great ski product.
I am an Orioles fan and soon we'll be loosing Manny Machado to free agency because small marker franchises do not have the resources to pay these 'stars'. He'll be signed by the Yankees or Dodgers and the Orioles will essentially get nothing. The Orioles tried to trade Manny before the trade deadline and they couldn't get what they wanted. I hope the Pirates have some talent to fill some big shoes. The Orioles finished in last place last year because we had no decent starting pitchers. And they cannot affort someone like Coles.
I spoke to someone at LM who said the problem at the Springs is old and antequated piping. They said the pipes keep bursting and that's why they've had issues making and keeping terrain open. I guess the company doesn't want to invest to get things fixed up either.
I contrast the Springs with LM and Hidden Valley. I skied at HV yesterday, 100% open, very nice coverage, great base, groomed well. Even after the crazy rain everything was in great shape. Same with LM. It was grass, then they posted on Twitter they were making snow, and two days later they have coverage. Contrast this to the endless Seven Springs social media posts about making snow and the result being almost no coverage on the mountain.
Years ago I ran into someone at Snowbasin who helped design Blue Knob. Back in the 60s Blue Knob had a revolutionary design apparently. We then drifted to talking about snow making systems, he worked in management at Snowbasin now. He said a single gun they have there could create something like a 10ft pile of snow overnight at the right temperature with enough pressure.
I had always thought these guns pumped out nothing, turns out all of those years of skiing under icy dust gave me the wrong impressions. They can crank out a lot of snow if the resort decides they want it. The newer systems can generate even more. All they need is sufficient temperature, water and pressure. My guess is the pipes at Seven Springs can't take the pressure.
What is the water source for 7Springs?
In VA, the issue for Massanutten used to be water. They built a 2-mile pipeline over the summer. That's meant they have been able to make good use of the extended frigid temps. In contrast, Wintergreeen used to be ahead of the game after they built a 5 million gallon water tank but they ran out of water in the last few weeks. Wintergreen draws from a lake that also provides potable water for all guests and residents at the top of the mountain. When nothing melts, the lake isn't big enough.
msprings wrote:
7 Springs water source is a combination of mountain springs throughout the property, and a creek just to the east of the resort.
Ah, hence the name Seven Springs. :-)
The problem with dynamic pricing in skiing is the risk in the product. You pay early but don't know what you will get. I don't plan a trip down here until I get a feel for how its going to be.
re: But then I also don’t quite understand the families who drive from FL annually for a ski weekend in NC or WV who have no intention of doing any other skiing/boarding.
The key point there is annually - its a vacation, not a lifestyle. You get all the family together, the area has plenty of options, and you get the hell out of Florida. Otherwise, there is a good local skiing population to keep things going between the holidays. Surprising, but it seems to work.
during the Herman Dupre era, they spent the summer searching for water. every green spot was checked out as
Herman flew over. they have tapped into every water source around. a lot of very funny stories came from the old snowmaking crew about sneaking water lines to small springs
Spoke with someone yesterday who said they heard Nutting say publicly:
"I would rather have the parking lot filled with 100 skiers with $1,000 in their pockets and Mercedes rather than 1,000 minivans with skiers who have $100 in their pockets."
When they told me this everything clicked. A day pass at Seven Springs costs more than a day pass at many Utah resorts with an inferior experience.
Maybe Nutting can trade away his best mountains as well..
oddballstocks wrote:
"I would rather have the parking lot filled with 100 skiers with $1,000 in their pockets and Mercedes rather than 1,000 minivans with skiers who have $100 in their pockets."
Duh...
56fish wrote:
oddballstocks wrote:
"I would rather have the parking lot filled with 100 skiers with $1,000 in their pockets and Mercedes rather than 1,000 minivans with skiers who have $100 in their pockets."
Duh...
What Nutting said, not oddballstocks.....sorry, obs
